Forum menu
Was talking to my son about use of mobile phones and fines for it, after seeing loads of people driving around whilst looking at phones in their laps.
I realised that a far better deterrent than points and a fine would be immediate confiscation and destruction/recycling of the phone. I know there aren't many police around to enforce it but I'm pretty sure that some people would rather lose an arm than lose their phone.
That and snipers in trees for people who litter (I picked up a carrier bags worth on a walk up do dove dale this morning) would soon have the place sorted 😂
I think both (all three); fine, points, phone is destroyed.
Cry me a ****ing river if it's on contract.
fine based on affordability is better. Remember that for some people these devices are largely disposable and for others are a major investment
that and death of course
Always wondered why cars cannot have phone jammers fitted. If the technology exists?
Always wondered why cars cannot have phone jammers fitted. If the technology exists?
Passengers, navigation, (currently) legal hands free use...
Perhaps you haven't heard of passengers?
I would make you use the phone as a key to start the car and then be blocked once the engine start.
I was driving up the M1 today and saw a van veering about the place, drifting out of his lane etc. As we passed him I said to Mrs OS and the Skipperlets "Have a look at the driver of that van, I'll bet you £100 he's on his phone".
Unbelievably I lost.
The bloke was eating his bloody breakfast - cereal, out of a bowl, with a spoon, while driving. I kid you not.
Always wondered why cars cannot have phone jammers fitted. If the technology exists?
retro fitting would be expensive and probably easily bypassed.
Plus the various legal uses mentioned by others. Getting rerouted to avoid an road shutdown is rather useful.
Whilst rather unenforceable I think destroying the phone and then requiring the offender to use an oversized heavy one which would be impossible to use whilst driving would be amusing.
I don't know about destruction but appropriate means for blocking the number and IMEI for an appropriate period. With the number going straight to voicemail explaining why the call cannot be connected. Allows messages to be collected from a voicemail box and also gets the message out that phone use is not acceptable.
6 points should be disincentive enough from the points PoV - particularly for young and newly qualified drivers 6 points is a ban. And then fines based on disposable income, unlimited. It has to hurt a millionaire as much as a teenager.
Nearly got taken out recently on a roundabout by a female driver applying mascara as she drove. WTF
Litter - yes. Howl of outrage yesterday as I saw 15 helium balloons released into the air from a local garden. WTF.
after seeing loads of people driving around whilst looking at phones in their laps.
as i understand it that's not technically illegal, as its not being held. it may fall under careless driving though
Our car was written off by a van driver with his phone on dash looking at sat nav, that's what he told police. Just shot out of side road into the side of us, if I was cycling I d probably be dead.
It was a big company owned van, I hope driver got some training.
<p>Wonder if the AI cameras trialled here will become more widespread:</p><p> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-66508840 </p><p>Just wish the punishment for actions like those in the second photo were more severe. Think everyone convicted of using a mobile whilst driving should be made to watch this video from Durham Constabulary (warning it has distressing scenes):</p><p>
</p><p> </p>
Like all driving penalties I think we should have a mandatory immediate ban from driving
3 points 1 week
6 points 3 weeks etc
people think the privilege is a right
Its not the phone thats the problem its the car. If you apply that logic to the example above you'd punish the van driver eating his breakfast by confiscating his cereal bowl. Take the car away (or rather the right to drive it), they can use the phone for calling a taxi.
Like all driving penalties I think we should have a mandatory immediate ban from driving
3 points 1 week
6 points 3 weeks etc
people think the privilege is a right
Indeed - I don't really see the point in points. I think short bans would be much more effective- much more equitable than fines.
I think @jp-t853 has a great point there;
"Like all driving penalties I think we should have a mandatory immediate ban from driving
3 points 1 week
6 points 3 weeks etc"
Can anyone think of a reason why something like this would not work?
Can anyone think of a reason why something like this would not work?
I think the tricky bit is enforcement - when was the last time anyone checked you were actually eligible to drive your car. I think for me maybe two or three times in the last 30 odd years in random roadside stops and checks. If you were suspended for a few weeks how would that suspension be monitored or enforced?
If it's on their lap they need a mount according to STW:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-phone-mount-for-use-in-a-car/
Mine goes in the boot unless I need satnav in which case it goes in the drink holder.
I think that as with most motroring offences it's not a question of needing stricter rules but enforcing the existing ones.
Indeed
Deterrence is on the risk of being caught not the level of punishment if you are caught. 6 pts is a fairly hefty penalty
Yep, we need proper enforcement of existing rules before looking at any new ones.
I’ve seen it so many times recently, from the obvious to the phone in hand below the window, do they think folk are looking and thinking they must have a seriously interesting interior on the door?!
I just can’t understand why folk need the phone that much, mine is locked in the centre storage, if a call or message arrives, the Bluetooth tells me, I mostly forget to connect it anyway, 30-60 minutes without a phone isn’t life changing
Perhaps you haven’t heard of passengers?
You've certainly heard of sarcasm.
I don't know how people can drive and operate their phone. It takes me all my mental thought process to work out how to use the thing and it's quirks, let alone pay attention to the road etc!
On my commute the last month or so I've seen a remarkable increase in people scrolling. I think it's kind of inevitable as people become more addicted to their phones. At least in summer the window is often open to give them an earful
Always wondered why cars cannot have phone jammers fitted. If the technology exists?
I just can’t understand why folk need the phone that much, mine is locked in the centre storage,
See, there’s this thing called satnav, and while I’ll happily concede that many cars today have satnav built in, it’s frequently lacking in detail and regular updates. My phone has TomTom installed, which gets regular updates, at least once a month. I can set up my required route before I leave the house, then plug the phone into the car’s USB port when I start it and the route automatically starts giving me directions. If there’s nothing on the radio I want to listen to, I select the phone on the infotainment screen and if I’ve had music playing, it picks up where I left off via BT, with the phone still in my pocket.
So why would a phone need to be locked in the centre storage instead of just leaving it in your pocket, where it’s unlikely to be forgotten when you park the car and walk away?
I don’t know how people can drive and operate their phone. It takes me all my mental thought process to work out how to use the thing and it’s quirks, let alone pay attention to the road etc!
Now ask the same question about the integrated systems on large touchscreens that many cars have fitted these days. I’ve driven quite a few, and frankly they scare me. You’re all going on about punishing people for using a mobile phone while driving, why aren’t you saying the same about car systems? There’s no significant difference between them as far as I can see, especially when some are centre mounted with no information in front of the driver, and even simple functions like demist, heating, radio/infotainment have to be accessed via multiple stacks of menus on a touchscreen out of the driver’s line of vision. How can this be considered safe?
Answer, it can’t and isn’t. They’re a massive distraction, even the minimal options on my car’s touchscreen using CarPlay are a distraction, which is why they’re very seldom used, my EcoSport is largely analogue, a major factor in why I bought it, along with comfort and an ideal driving position. Plus it looks good and is pretty zippy, but the fact it has actual dials, and rotary controls for radio and aircon, along with push-buttons for secondary controls means I can alter settings by touch, without taking my eyes off the road.
Some manufacturers seem to be realising that touchscreens are a colossal ergonomic failure and backpedaling on their installation, but many others aren’t, and EV’s just encourage them.
They can, and do fail - what do you do at 70mph on a motorway late at night when the entire full-width screen in front of you goes black? I’ve seen it happen, fortunately at work, before the car was put up for sale. It required transporting back to a main dealership, I’ve no idea what happened to it afterwards. Imagine it happening to someone who bought it, late at night with the family in the car.
I think I see as many kids riding along on their bikes looking at their phones as i see car drivers now.
Perhaps not as potentially catastrophic, but certainly bloody dangerous. Maybe if there was good education and disincentives (although I think it's a $1000 fine here and it doesn't seem to stop people) for young people they would learn the issues young...
It's rife, see it all day every day from my truck cab as I can see down into cars so putting it on your lap won't hide it. Plenty of truckers on their phones too which car drivers cannot see!
The issue is that there is no enforcement whatsoever as far as everyone is concerned. Traffic duties are moved to the Traffic Wombles (who do a great job at what they can do) and that means that no police cars are patrolling the main roads and motorways. Add in that any police that are about are stretched to well beyond the limit and it is indeed a free-for-all out there.
As for the 'infotainment' in cars? Just as dangerous as phone use judging by the way cars veer around as the driver is changing the settings from what I see daily.
Snipers are a great idea...but who'd clean up the bodies?
ur car was written off by a van driver with his phone on dash looking at sat nav, that’s what he told police. Just shot out of side road into the side of us, if I was cycling I d probably be dead.
So you want ALL sat nav's banned as well?
It'd nothing to do with the phone, it was s**t driving.
Always wondered why cars cannot have phone jammers fitted. If the technology exists?
Because only drivers are in vehicles...
Nearly got taken out recently on a roundabout by a female driver applying mascara as she drove. WTF
I once saw a car (that I wrongly thought was on a fixed tow-bar being towed by a truck as it was so close) with the driver shaving at the wheel.
Snipers are a great idea…but who’d clean up the bodies?
Leave them in tbe gutter as a warning to others
Now ask the same question about the integrated systems on large touchscreens that many cars have fitted these days. I’ve driven quite a few, and frankly they scare me. You’re all going on about punishing people for using a mobile phone while driving, why aren’t you saying the same about car systems? There’s no significant difference between them as far as I can see, especially when some are centre mounted with no information in front of the driver, and even simple functions like demist, heating, radio/infotainment have to be accessed via multiple stacks of menus on a touchscreen out of the driver’s line of vision. How can this be considered safe?
+1
On the iX nearly everything was controlled from the touchscreen, even the climate control and it was a bloody nightmare to use on the move so I just set it to minimum and left it there for 2 weeks.
Once everyone has ULEZ compliant cars, then there should be no need to touch a phone? win, win
Oh and why can a driver have cig in a car, never understood that one.
You make good points about screen based cars, Countzero. Mine is at the same level as yours and the screen only gets used when there are two of us in the car - I even find it a distraction when Madame is using it and have to make an effort to keep my eyes on the road not her faffing on the screen. The screen is currently so covered in finger prints and dust it's unusable without moving directly infront of it.
I went to have a look at a potential new car and couldn't help thinking "this is a step too far". It used to be a case of "where's the button for x ?", now it's a series of menus and trying to hit virtual buttons that have to be looked at rather than felt for, and in a complex order. A phone is in your hand and your forearms are fixed when you use a keyboard, it's easy to hit the right key - but a touch screen, no way. Nothing to hold on to just an arm waving as the car sways and joggles around. And no two cars are the same.
I realised that a far better deterrent than points and a fine would be immediate confiscation and destruction/recycling of the phone.
And/or car or licence(?).
I went to have a look at a potential new car and couldn’t help thinking “this is a step too far”.
I rejected a hire car at Barcelona for this. I got in and spent 5 mins trying to work out how to just turn down the volume of the radio, and the tornado a-like air-con setting down a bit. The touchscreen was to me at least; a jumble of icons and sub menus, admittedly if my school-boy Spanish had been better I might have been more speedy, but ultimately I didn't think it was safe to drive through the centre of Barcelona.
Compulsory cameras inside all vehicles, focused on the drivers lap ,then live streaming to billboards along the roadside. 😆 🤣
Compulsory cameras inside all vehicles
I do think internal CCTV should be a thing.
Some cars have built in Dash Cams now, but internally focussed ones would be much more useful, to be able to review if the driver was being a **** in the lead up to a bump.
Closed to the user obviously, no delete functionalisty, accessible by insurers and police. If tampered with or removed, presumption of guilt.
@theotherjonv Is it not a ban and compulsory retest for 6 points in the first two years?
On a tangent, people should never be allowed to escape a ban based on totting up - if they’ve had at least one opportunity to change their behaviour and haven’t taken it, then tough bananas Julio.
Had a guy recently close pass me whilst shouting into his phone held up in front of his face. When I inevitably caught him up I mentioned this, his response "a du wot'a **** want"
Destroy the phones!
+1 on phone use in cars seems to be growing - and that is phone to ear. Last night I pedalled past a tractor with 18 ton bales on a trailer in heavy traffic - driver on phone to ear....
I also agree that totting up = ban, no excuses at all allowed.
I also think that the 'aggravating factors' get totted up and more than two = ban. So if you are speeding and not insured you get points and fine as usual. However speeding, no insurance and no MOT = ban and car taken to be sold for taxpayers pot.
A months take home pay as a fine. Should be enough to pay for more enforcement officers.
Fines without the means to prosecte are meaningless. Low levels of policing plus a stretched judicial system means the current chances of getting caught a very low.
Allow a percentage of the months fine to kick back toward joe public for fliming evidence suitable for prosecution and the whole dynamic suddenly swings towards being likely to get caught.
We used to do it for dobbing in drink driving.
No difference in my opinion judging by some of the knobs who stare at their car door handle whilst doing 30 past a school at 3pm
Oh, that is the other one. Any ban = retest at your expense too.