MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Hi chaps,
I've never been able to figure out what the drink drive limit is in Scotland. I know it's 22mg per 100ml of breath, but I have no idea what that means in real terms.
In the news it appears it's less than a pint.
One pint warning issued to drivers - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-36149020
Unless they're lying, and had more than a pint.
A year ban seems like a lot if you've had a single pint. I don't drink anything if I'm driving, but it'd still be good to know what the limit in real terms means. (I know it depends on metabolism, strength of drink, bow much food you've eaten..).
Cheers
Ricks
A year ban seems like a lot if you've had a single pint.
Seems too little to me.
But yes they essentially lowered so 1 pint is enough. Well done Scotland.
Simple rule really
If unsure dont do it
As there are so many variables that effect the result then why take the risk in the first place.
I think everyone who's been awake in the past few years will have heard it's generally reckoned to be under a pint in Scotland. I certainly knew, I don't even live there (though I do visit).
Don't have any, the limit will cover probably the morning affer/residual
[quote=rickon ]A year ban seems like a lot if you've had a single pint. Ignorance of the law is not an alibi. There was so much nonsense spouted about the previous (higher) limit too - I regularly heard "two pints is fine".
I have no idea what that means in real terms.
In real terms it means that the limit has been set low enough that you can't really have an actual alcoholic drink of any description and high enough that they don't need to prosecute anyone who's eaten a sherry trifle.... because, as we all know...
De minimis non curat lex.*
*This is a shite Law joke in Latin. Solicitors** all over the country are pissing themselves right now. 😳
** and possibly Ancient Romans.
what he said
Don't drink if you want to drive
its not that complicated a rule to follow
The new limit in Scotland is essentially zero. It was set at 22 to avoid people being over the limit from eating say a stew that was made using red wine, a chocolate liqueur etc.
Edit. Beaten to it by perchy!
ooops wrong one. 😳
I think, especially in Scotland and most of mainland Europe were the limits are lower than in England & Wales they want to do away the idea that you can drink "a little bit" and drive - the limit is more a buffer for things like food with trace amount of alcohol in it, if someone's just used mouthwash or had a drink the day before or something.
There is no safe way to determine how much you can drink before driving, it's theoretically possible to be over the limit on a small or relatively large amount, I wouldn't even trust one of the home testers you can buy, if you get caught over you'll be banned, cause an accident, even if alcohol wasn't a factor (in theory) and you might face prison. It's just not worth it anymore.
Whether it's fair or not is open for debate, when I was young most people considered 2 pints of weaker lager the limit for driving, when my parents were young it was "Five and Drive - don't have that 6th pint if you're driving", the roads were quieter back then, but lots of people died every year from drink driving.
the limit will cover probably the morning affer/residual
The way I see some folk drinking, it certainly won't cover them for the morning after!
[i]but I have no idea what that means in real terms.[/i]
In real terms if I'm driving I don't have any alcohol, that makes things much easier.
Welcome to the SNP's nanny state.
Along with airgun licences for all.
Welcome to the SNP's nanny state
Oooook!
[quote=b r ]Welcome to the SNP's nanny state.
The Scottish Parliament voted [b]unanimously[/b] in favour of the new law
say a stew that was made using red wine
That wouldn't be a problem unless you poured it in just before serving, though. Which would be really stupid.
it's in essence a zero policy. But there is a small allowable limit for those on medication etc that can give a positive reading. In short, don't drink at all if you will be driving soon after.
The Scottish Parliament voted unanimously in favour of the new law
Gah! How dare you post actual facts, spoil a good bitchwhine!
a good bitchwine
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Hey b r, if you don't like the way the country is being run, you could always try living somewhere else.
I like the very low alcohol limit, it seems to be working quite well. It's a bit like the (quite effective) average speed limit on the A9, where for the first time ever in a 12 month period, no-one died in a road accident last year.
Funny coincidence that...
😕 It's more than twice the limit here. (0,5 BAC compared to 0,2 BAC)
Seems extremely generous for a "you can have some sherry trifle and not get busted" limit.
How much sherry trifle do you lot eat?
How much sherry trifle do you lot eat?
Only one or two a day.
How much trifle have you to offer?
The question
[i]"I've never been able to figure out what the drink drive limit is in Scotland. I know it's 22mg per 100ml of breath, but I have no idea what that means in real terms."[/i]
implies you know what the limit is in "real terms" in the rest of the UK. Given that in actual terms it is 35 v's 22 mg/100mL I think you could estimate the limit at 62% of the the English limit. Given that a "pint" varies between about 3.5% and 5.5% depending on the beer (excluding the outliers) then you already have a huge variation. Add to that the factors you already know about: height, weight, normal consumption (liver "capacity"), stomach content, time of consumption etc... and its impossible to predict a useful quantity of alcohol that you can buy and be sure to be within the limit.
Now lets think about the two people you linked to in the article:
(1) Was measured at 35 mg/100mL. He claimed to have had a pint (of cider). The implication was he would have been legal in England. In reality if he had been conveyed to a police station with an full breathalyser quicker he might not have been. Unless he was very "unlucky" his sample wasn't taken at "peak" breath alcohol.
(2) Was measured at 32 mg/100mL. Again given he was "caught" in Dalbeattie it probably took quite a while to get him to a police station and collect his evidential samples (even if they caught him leaving the pub they would have waited [i]at least[/i] 20 minutes after his last drink before testing).
Now how sure are you that with "just one pint" you are actually under the English limit?
How much sherry trifle do you lot eat?
Not many, I mean who doesn't like a sherry trifle? I bet you have a sherry trifle or two on a weekend.
Not many, I mean who doesn't like a sherry trifle? I bet you have a sherry trifle or two on a weekend.
I must admit to being a bit of a binge-trifler.
I don't normally have any sherry trifles during the week, maybe just the one with my tea one night. But at the weekends sometime I'll go out with my friends and have 10 or 12 trifles in one go.
What we need is more of a continental culture, where we eat fewer sherry trifles in one go, but spread them out a bit more.
Sherry trifles I can cope with.
It's those bloody chocolate liqueurs!
If they lower it in England I will certainly invest in a breathalyser of some sort for morning after driving. I don't ever have "one pint" and drive but do have a beer or three on a weekend and "feeling ok" the morning after just isn't going to be good enough.
My parents began giving me watered down sherry trifles from the age of eight.
Has anyone had their sherry trifle spiked? My wife came home after having a night out, her friends says she he her usual amount and the suddenly started acting weird. Normally she can take her sherry trifle so this was unusual.
If they lower it in England I will certainly invest in a breathalyser of some sort for morning after driving. I don't ever have "one pint" and drive but do have a beer or three on a weekend and "feeling ok" the morning after just isn't going to be good enough.
If only there was another way.
All this trifle abuse... the law remains unconcerned. 😉
[quote=Drac ]Has anyone had their sherry trifle spiked? My wife came home after having a night out, her friends says she he her usual amount and the suddenly started acting weird. Normally she can take her sherry trifle so this was unusual.Bollocks. All this talk about spiking sherry trifles is just covering up for a lack of responsibility. She was probably mixing some strawberry and raspberry flavoured jellies.
Or was it the brandy snaps?
She only had 2 Brandy snaps her friends had the same but they also had something to drink. I wonder if it was a knock off Bird's Trifle there's no telling what they put in them.
Last summer I went walking in the Cheviots and at the end went for a drink in Kirk Yetholm.
The very first thing the barman said to me was " are you driving? If so I wouldn't have more than 1/2 pint "
I thought this very responsible and was grateful. Even though less than a mile away the limit is much higher.
I had an orange and soda
I had an orange and soda
With a sherry trifle chaser?
So you can't ride a bike on the road after a pint ? STW is full of photos of after ride pints, even mid ride pints. Banned in Scotland ?
[quote=jambalaya ]So you can't ride a bike on the road after a pint ? STW is full of photos of after ride pints, even mid ride pints. Banned in Scotland ?
Ignorance of the law.
Again?
So you can't ride a bike on the road after a pint ? STW is full of photos of after ride pints, even mid ride pints. Banned in Scotland ?
It's a different law as bicycles aren't a mechanically propelled vehicle.
perchypanther - Member
they don't need to prosecute anyone who's eaten a sherry trifle.... because, as we all know...De minimis non curat lex.*
*This is a shite Law joke in Latin. Solicitors** all over the country are pissing themselves right now.
** and possibly Ancient Romans.
I didn't piss myself, but it did raise a wry smile inbetween beasting my clients and generally doing down the man on the street, or whatever it is STW thinks we do (not a Roman BTW). 😉
Section 30 Road Traffic Act 1988 says: "It is an offence for a person to ride a cycle on a road or other public place when unfit to ride through drink or drugs - that is to say - is under the influence of a drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the cycle.
In Scotland a PC may arrest without warrant a person committing an offence under this section. There is no obligation for a cyclist to submit to a blood or urine alcohol test.
'Road' in the above bit of legislation includes a bridleway.
You can not get endorsements on your UK driving licence for a 'drink cycling' offence.
Bird's Trifle
Thanks for that Shane...
P-Jay - Member
I think, especially in Scotland and most of mainland Europe were the limits are lower than in England & Wales they want to do away the idea that you can drink "a little bit" and drive - the limit is more a buffer for things like food with trace amount of alcohol in it, if someone's just used mouthwash or had a drink the day before or something.
Yet, judging by virtually all mainland European ski resorts, it's ok to drink and ski.
I'm surprised no-one's considered banning walking home from the pub.
Everyone knows that when you're pissed and you ride a bike, you ride that fast not even the police helicopter would keep up 😆
I'm surprised no-one's considered banning walking home from the pub.
Maybe it could be called drunk and disorderly.
I've saved the possibility of getting stopped on the way back from the pub by getting absolutely rat arsed at home while working on bikes ;}
Drac - Moderator
If they lower it in England I will certainly invest in a breathalyser of some sort for morning after driving. I don't ever have "one pint" and drive but do have a beer or three on a weekend and "feeling ok" the morning after just isn't going to be good enough.
If only there was another way
So is that no acceptable to you then drac?
I was stopped and breathalysed a few weeks back. I'd had a pint but was well under the limit. I'll be honest and say that I will have one beer and drive, sorry.
You could just not drive the next morning, then you're 100% safe.
How is that possible and actually ever have a drink? That would rule out having a beer sun to Thursday night, then no beer Fri or Saturday if you require using the van/car.
Surely you are better knowing you are safe rather than the age old "I feel sound" methodology.
Yeah quite simply like that. I've drank lots the night before in the past then driven and not proud of it, now I won't if I'm driving early the next day.
Surely you are better knowing you are safe rather than the age old "I feel sound" methodology.
Hence the not driving or not drinking.
Yet, judging by virtually all mainland European ski resorts, it's ok to drink and ski.
I skiers weighed several tons, were made of metal, and caused thousands of deaths every year then I suspect that law would change.
But what is wrong with I had a drink last night, I'll just check because I'm a responsible person before I set off. Shit, I'm over, what a ****, I knew that last beer would do it. I'm gonna have to get a cab or cycle in, and be late. Surely it's a great option to have?
How do you feel about a 3/5 mph canal boat? I'm getting a few beers in on that next month whether you like it or not 😉
My father was a pilot. He stuck by, and instilled in me, "8 hours, bottle to throttle".
Easy, really.
You see if I'd been on an afternoon evening sesh from say 5pm till 11pm I'd never consider driving till the next 5pm. No way would I go 8 hrs.
The place where I work (serviced office) has fridge of free beers on Friday afternoons to encourage a bit of socialising.
They are also having a beer tasting tomorrow.
Judging by the car park they all drive. 😯
But what is wrong with I had a drink last night, I'll just check because I'm a responsible person before I set off. Shit, I'm over, what a ****, I knew that last beer would do it. I'm gonna have to get a cab or cycle in, and be late. Surely it's a great option to have?
Surely the question is, why aren't you doing that now?
highlandman - Member
Hey b r, if you don't like the way the country is being run, you could always try living somewhere else.
I like the very low alcohol limit, it seems to be working quite well. It's a bit like the (quite effective) average speed limit on the A9, where for the first time ever in a 12 month period, no-one died in a road accident last year.
Funny coincidence that...
Really
CaptainFlashheart - Member
My father was a pilot. He stuck by, and instilled in me, "8 hours, bottle to throttle".
I'm sure there's a legless pilot joke here, if only I was brave enough.
Because I don't drink late and drive the next day ever. However if the limits were lowered to virtually zero then you would surely be a lot more likely to be over that limit?
I'm sure there's a legless pilot joke here, if only I was brave enough.
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(not my father, BTW!)
wrightyson, it's not totally prescriptive. It requires the user/drinker to make some value judgement. The sentiment, however, is sound. Don't drink and drive. Give it a good rest between beer and vroom vroom.
That's the fella 🙂
To be fair, I do find it confusing, who measures their own drinking in the same terms as the law? But I'm not an idiot, so faced with the tricky question of "can I have 1 pint, or not" I have no pints, rather than going "it's a bit confusing this" and having 3.
Then again I think I'm technically a binge drinker, because I can't usually see the point in 1 pint.
Because I don't drink late and drive the next day ever. However if the limits were lowered to virtually zero then you would surely be a lot more likely to be over that limit?
Excellent. Well that's kind of the reason they've been lowered in the past.
Whilst being very anti driving under the influence of drink or drugs there is a difference between those who drink and drive the same day/night and those over the limit after say 6hrs sleep. Not condoning either but one always seems way more deliberate to me.
I'd have the system we have now for minor offences and a lifetime ban for the more significant. Oh and lifetime bans for driving with a mobile phone to your ear as that seems standard practice for far too many idiots!
Texting while driving is where it's at now.
Whilst being very anti driving under the influence of drink or drugs there is a difference between those who drink and drive the same day/night and those over the limit after say 6hrs sleep. Not condoning either but one always seems way more deliberate to me.
Some people would try to rationalise the driving on the night by saying the drink affected their judgement, it was late at night, the roads were quiet, there was no public transport, perhaps a plan fell to pieces (e.g. wallet lost, fell out with lift home, or missed the last bus)...
...now compare that to driving the next day: in rush hour, when public transport is available, and you are presumably thinking straight enough to go to work...
Are you sure the culpability is less?
Pilots, cabin crew, train drivers, etc have a limit of 9 micrograms of alcohol in breath, 22 is still too high IMHO
Drac, So if reliable breathalysers came down in price and were readily available would you still sit high up on your horse and say just don't drink even if there's a remote chance you might drive the next day? I can't see the issue, pre driving check is surely the safest way other than not drinking at all, and for many that just isn't going to happen so don't quote that bit in your next reply. Surely that's the same thinking as in places in Europe where they are compulsory in your car, I'm sure they're not there to help you change a tyre or fuse.
Anyway crack on with your one man morality show as I have enough arguing to do at work each day.
'I've only had one' would never wash as an excuse if you blew over. The limit up here has been dropped and it's something I agree with. It really has made the majority of people reconsider the attitude of a couple will be ok.
Has it caught more people the morning after ? Not sure, probably but not massively, at a guess. Lowering it further would not be necessary just yet I don't think. there will always be people who think they are immune to it all and drink a ton and fail the test massively. A lower limit wouldn't change the results of those fools.
Has it caught more people the morning after ? Not sure
Probably not caught unless backed up with a bunch of random testing, quite common out here in Oz and picks up a load of other problems too.
poly - member
Some people would try to rationalise the driving on the night by saying the drink affected their judgement, it was late at night, the roads were quiet, there was no public transport, perhaps a plan fell to pieces (e.g. wallet lost, fell out with lift home, or missed the last bus)...
...now compare that to driving the next day: in rush hour, when public transport is available, and you are presumably thinking straight enough to go to work...
Are you sure the culpability is less?
Yep. The 'same night' offender has 100% knowledge of committing an offence, the morning after offender less so. I suspect they are also involved in more serious accidents but I haven't researched that or whether such stats even exist.
I'm not allowed to comment. 😐
Drac - Moderator
I'm not allowed to comment.
You just did so you might as well be hung for a drunken sheep as an over the limit but rested lamb.
if reliable breathalysers came down in price and were readily available
Interesting one that - my wife is diabetic, so she must test her blood glucose before she drives to ensure she is not a danger to herself or others.
I guess in some ways having a breathalyser in the car would be the same thing - rather than, as some seem to portray it, a way to avoid being caught.