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meehaja - i think i luuuurrrvvvvee you....
😛
Loving your work meehaja 🙂
Meehaja- usually hate saying that myself but in that instance wholly understand your enjoyment!!
Guessing he'll manage to hang onto his car due to the time between the accident and him being breathalysed, far too much of this type of incident goes on, in the highlands and all over in general..
Not enough info for me. The BBC have named and shamed a man in public. However IF true 2 3/4hrs is a longtime. I could sink (leisurely) 3 or 4 double Rums in that time if I felt stressed over such an event.
The other driver (81yr old) could have said (GUESSING) at the scene 'I thought he smelt of drink'.
Who knows.
Its unfair to cast him as guilty though. Nice one BBC. Are you linked to the Daily Mail?
similar to what they do in france
Yeap and not a good idea at all. So you're drunk, get caught, you loose your license and you can still drive a car, get drunk again and smash it into children... Yeah what a brilliant idea...
I think drink driving is dealt with far to leniently. Hundreds of people a year killed by drunk drivers.
I am in favour of random breath testing - roadblock roads and test everyone in known trouble spots.
No problem with crushing his car, he should go to jail as well.
If the chances of getting caught were higher that is the best deterrent. So random breath tests, longer bans, bigger fines, jail used more often
The state is perfectly happy to seize cars from drug dealers where there's no way to demonstrate how said dealer legally obtained the funds to buy it. The Customs guys used to use them as undercover vehicles after changing the car's identity.
Why not do the same with cars taken from drink drivers rather than crushing them?
jail used more often
Oh the ironing...
Every motoring offence, regardless of how minor, should carry a mandatory minimum penalty of having your car taken off you and crushed to the size of a satsuma.
There'd be no pussy-footing around if I were in charge.
😈
Its a stupid idea, cars vary massively in value, and therefore so does the severity of the punishment, large fines based on the guilty persons ability to pay would be a better solution, with custodial sentences for for more serious offences.
TJ speaks sense here.
Although more severe sentencing brings satisfaction to victims, it is increasing the chance to get caught which increases deterrence.
Although more severe sentencing brings satisfaction to victims
Does it? (Not a facetious question).
Hora he's already plead guilty to the drink driving, it's the car seizure he's contesting.
large fines based on the guilty persons ability to pay would be a better solution,
Already exists. I got fined the equivalent of three months 'excess' income for a high-speed court appearance. Big fine, 6 points.
Hora he's already plead guilty to the drink driving, it's the car seizure he's contesting.
Twas early and I misread 😳
[i]The solicitor said: "Forfeiture of the car would be a disproportionate punishment given that the value of the car is some £23,000.[/i]
Haven't read other posts but why is it disproportionate?
Is it okay to penalise people by taking their car if they can only afford a £5k, or a £500 car for example.
Do the crime do the time and crush the ****ers car.
Bit of a tangent to go off at here, but for all you pious "lock 'em up and throw away the key" types...
If you get caught over the blood alcohol limit for driving (0.05, rather than 0.08 in the UK) whilst riding your bike down here in Australia, you lose your license, just as you would in the car. If you don't have a license, either from previous, or never having learned, the penalty gets applied when you eventually try to obtain one.
Oh, and the BA limit for people who've been driving less than 2 years is ZERO....
Bit of a tangent to go off at here, but for all you pious "lock 'em up and throw away the key" types...If you get caught over the blood alcohol limit for driving (0.05, rather than 0.08 in the UK) whilst riding your bike down here in Australia, you lose your license, just as you would in the car. If you don't have a license, either from previous, or never having learned, the penalty gets applied when you eventually try to obtain one.
Oh, and the BA limit for people who've been driving less than 2 years is ZERO....
Seems pretty logical to me.
Seems pretty logical to me.
Never had a beer after a ride, or ridden to the pub so you could drink?
In aus they take you car license away for riding your bike after a drink? I don't agree with that
In aus they take you car license away for riding your bike after a drink?
Seems so. A bike is classed as a vehicle and there is therefore no distinction - this applies to other 'minor misdemeanours' such as not riding on a designated trail, popping over the pavement to skip a tricky junction etc...
I don't agree with that
It does have some big repercussions as the cyclist. But... if you happened to drift in front of a big truck, and the truck swerved in front of a car to avoid you, your drink-riding would have pretty undesirable repercussions for some innocent bystanders.
TJ, Oz have some of the most strict traffic rules I've ever come across and literally the worst driving standards I've ever had to deal with anywhere. I read an article whilst I was there in a Aussie motorcycle mag about their woeful driving standards, which was pretty much my experience. I've seriously never seen such poor driving anywhere else in the world.
I've seriously never seen such poor driving anywhere else in the world.
They truly are diabolical*. Just no ability to read the road, react to what's happening around them, or show any courtesy, even when this would make their own journey easier.
*the one curious exception is attitude towards cyclists - by and large, as there are many more cyclists in cities here, they're given much more room and time
I have a hunch I know where this thread is going...
Anyway, for my input, much like the recent thread on guns, it's all well and good getting high and mighty about this, but nothing is ever black and white. Didn't we do something ages ago about circumstances where drink driving may be unavoidable or at least not something that the driver wanted or intended to do? My boy fell down the stairs on Xmas Eve and cracked his head open. It wasn't an ambulance job in my opinion but public transport wasn't an option, so we drove him to the hospital. As it happened we hadn't been on the pop, but if we all had - and one of us ended up driving over the limit - I'd like to think that the judicial system would see that as very different to someone who drives to the pub, sinks 10 pints and drives home. The outcome could be the same either way though.
Personally I think the law should ban drink driving altogether, but you can't treat all drink drivers the same way. Like I said above, I think I know where all this is leading. Deja vu.
My boy fell down the stairs on Xmas Eve and cracked his head open. It wasn't an ambulance job in my opinion but public transport wasn't an option, so we drove him to the hospital. As it happened we hadn't been on the pop, but if we all had
...you either pay for a taxi, or it is an ambulance job. Something wrong with the attitude that you have to drive in such circumstances IMHO.
What Bruneep said. He sees it first hand. More laws and punishments should be based on the opinions and findings of the [s]poor sods[/s] personnel who have to deal with the immediate impacts and consequences of the crimes.
100% with aracer there
I'd like to think that the judicial system would see that as very different to someone who drives to the pub, sinks 10 pints and drives home. The outcome could be the same either way though.
I would ruddy hope not - its not necessary.
there is defence of "necessity" to drink driving but that would hopefully fall far short.
...you either pay for a taxi, or it is an ambulance job. Something wrong with the attitude that you have to drive in such circumstances [b]IMHO[/b].
Thank you, my point exactly. It is your opinion and not a black or white, right or wrong. When someone is tried for drink driving the laws are there to help the jury form an opinion on what justice to serve.
As I said, I believe drink driving should be banned outright. In my example above, what if I had had a drink but thought I was under the limit, but then had an accident and was found to be over the limit? I don't think anyone can argue that I should be punished to the same extent of the law as my 10-pinter example. Well, I can think of one person 😉
{EDIT} - Thanks TJ, reliable as ever 🙂
In aus they take you car license away for riding your bike after a drink?
It should happen here.
Hands up I've previously ridden home after a few pints- its idiotic. You ride faster, erratic and don't have the same fear at night don't you?
What happens if you ride into a pedestrian causing them serious harm?
When someone is tried for drink driving the laws are their to help the jury form an opinion on what justice to serve
I think you'll find the jury are directed quite clearly in such cases to disregard any mitigation, as it is a black and white offence.
[i]drink driving may be unavoidable or at least not something that the driver wanted or intended to do? My boy fell down the stairs on Xmas Eve and cracked his head open. It wasn't an ambulance job in my opinion but public transport wasn't an option, so we drove him to the hospital. As it happened we hadn't been on the pop, but if we all had - and one of us ended up driving over the limit - I'd like to think that the judicial system would see that as very different to someone who drives to the pub, sinks 10 pints and drives home. The outcome could be the same either way though.[/i]
Or get a taxi, ask a neighbour, friend or call an ambulance. Seriously you would 'drink drive' to take your kid to hospital? Thats a wired logic there.
Clearly not just my opinion then!
One thing we're all forgetting about is people driving with a bad cold ... as bad as drink-driving (apparently) and very probably massively more common ...
Sorry in no way would I find it acceptable to drive to hospital over the limit under any circumstances.
For a start, if you are anxious and have been drinking you aint exactly going to offer the safest ride to your 'patient' are you?
Leave it to the professionals. Plus if the patient comes in via an ambulance they jump the queue (if you want to look at it in a brutal/selfish way).
"It does have some big repercussions as the cyclist. But... if you happened to drift in front of a big truck, and the truck swerved in front of a car to avoid you, your drink-riding would have pretty undesirable repercussions for some innocent bystanders. "
Can you quote one incident, ever, where this has happened? In fact quote any incident where a drunk cyclist has killed anyone other than himself.
Let's talk about events that actually happen.
As for seizing drink driver's cars, fair enough. As drink drivers are not responsible for the majority of road deaths are we going to start seizing the cars of people for the second speeding offence or the second using a mobile offence.
After all using a phone is more dangerous than driving at the legal alcohol limit.
http://lcc.org.uk/articles/driving-with-a-mobile-phone-is-worse-than-drink-driving
Either I'm not making my point very well or I'm on a hiding to nothing
Seriously you would 'drink drive' to take your kid to hospital?
Car Camping trip, middle of nowhere, no phone reception. Me and my son have had a few nips from the hip flask. He has an accident that needs urgent medical attention and my first aid only goes so far. Hospital and/or civilisation is too far to walk in the limited time and only option is to drive. I might be under the limit, I might not. Would I drive? Of course I would. Sit there and let him die just because I was worried about being convicted of drink driving? Of course not.
Ok, it's an extreme example but surely now we can agree that in this circumstance the drink driver is not "as bad" as someone who intentionally, regularly and for no good reason drives to the pub and back and gets legless. If you can't see that then frankly I'm astounded and will gracefully accept your opinion.
Either I'm not making my point very well or I'm on a hiding to nothing
At least you're not a casual racist
For what it is worth and my two penneths worth, and before anyone passes judgement on me, 10 years ago this April I received the phone call to be told my parents had been in a road accident. Brief details, Parents on a motorbike, dad driving/riding and mum pillion, A5 near Hockliffe, on way back from a meeting of fellow mature riders, lady coming the other way in a car, 3 times over the limit, hits kerb and spins her car looses control spinning her car across the road and hitting my parents, Dad declared dead on arrival at hospital, (I had to formally identify the body) Mum in intensive car with a variety of ailments/broken bone/collapsed lung. I wont go into the following details but having to explain to my mother what happened when see awoke in hospital and the drugs had worn off several days later will stay with me forever, as will the whole experience to be honest.
Lady arrested at scene, breathalised and found to be three times over the limit, (Sunday afternoon in the pub anyone?) It went to court and the punishment was 18months in jail, and a 2 year driving ban.
As for us, well my mum had to give up work due to her injuries, and we will not even begin on the mental impact that it had upon her and the rest of us.
Just wanted to give you guys and real world example of the after effects of what happens potential when someone decides to drink and drive, as for the punishment for the offence, what would you think is enough?
I agree that at times it can be too leniant, and those who feel it is neccessary to laugh or poke fun at this then really i hope you have the balls to do it to my face if we ever meet, no wait I am not a violent person, I just hope that you never have to go through it with your loved ones as trust me it does change your whole perspective of things.
David
Eh? (to aracer)
David, my condolences. It is a serious matter indeed.
TJ, Oz have some of the most strict traffic rules I've ever come across and literally the worst driving standards I've ever had to deal with anywhere. I read an article whilst I was there in a Aussie motorcycle mag about their woeful driving standards, which was pretty much my experience. I've seriously never seen such poor driving anywhere else in the world.
Agreed. I've just spent two weks in Aus and it was the most appalling driving I've seen. They're obsessed with speed, but at the cost of actually driving properly.
Thank you David.
[quote=b r].....And would probably only be legal where the driver fully 'owned' the vehicle - which is difficult to prove/decide, as only the 'keeper' is recorded.
What complete tosh. Its not difficult at all to prove/decide who owns a car 😯
Please take off the tin foil hat, and step away from the internet.
If you bought your car, you own it (unless its on finance in some cases)
The whole idea that you sign away ownership when you register your car and you are only the "Registered Keeper" is a full on myth.
Can you quote one incident, ever, where this has happened? In fact quote any incident where a drunk cyclist has killed anyone other than himself.
Dunno, but that's the law here, chum.
Here, drink-riding is seen by most to be in exactly the same boat as drink-driving; with all the pious rhetoric from non-pub-cyclists as STWers have shown on here for the past two pages. It's seen that way for the reason given in my example. It's not what happens to the selfish drunk rider, it's how their actions might affect others.
How often these scenarios play out is anyone's guess, but it's the law, and despite several campaigns against it, it seems to be staying, for precisely those reasons.
EDIT: Here's a near miss that could have been a lot worse: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/68693-drunk-cyclist-survives-rail-plunge
Agreed. I've just spent two weks in Aus and it was the most appalling driving I've seen. They're obsessed with speed, but at the cost of actually driving properly.
Dashboard mounted indoor Barbie mate?