No one who hasn’t had kids can make an informed decision as to whether they regret it.

Regardless of patronising, that's *silly*.

Only people with children can regret having them.

Only people without children can regret not having them.

& to get back to the OP. I notice nobody has popped up yet to say they regret not having kids.

In 2014 a research group at Emory University found that when fathers looked at pictures of their young children, their brains showed heightened activity in regions associated with empathy and reward, as compared with non-fathers. The change seemed to be related to hormonal shifts – on average, the dads had lower levels of testosterone and higher levels of oxytocin, a hormone that’s involved in social emotions.

Bottom line: if you’ve ever seen a parent laughing and cooing with their snotty bundle of joy and wondered how they can see any appeal, remember their outlook has been helped along by some rather useful brain tweaks.

Interesting, I wonder what the trigger is, as the physical/biological process, from the male perspective doesn't know any different whether you are a father or a sock stiffener.

I wonder how the study would expand if you showed fathers pictures of random children of similar age. Or estranged fathers picture of their biological offspring?

Let me try and offer some nuance.
41, no kids and no plans for any. Do have a dog though...
I was quite hard line about having no kids when I was younger and have somewhat mellowed on the idea now. I'm pretty indifferent either way, if I was with someone who really wanted kids I'd probably do it, but I'm not as Mrs Lunge is very much not into the idea and I'm happy with that.
I'd much rather not having them and regret it, which would impact no-one bar me, than have them and regret it which would therefore impact me, Mrs Lunge and who knows who else.
Mrs Lunge's Mom didn't want kids and had them as it was just what you did. She adores them and wouldn't be without them now, but my wife was brought up from an early age that it was entirely optional and not something she had to do.
So yeah, you do you. My niece is great, (some of) my friends kids are great, and my dog is great too. Make your own decision, though I'd say that if in doubt, don't.

I remember starting a similar thread on here, probably well over ten years ago.....

In my 20s always thought I liked the idea of having kids.

A good friend got his GF pregnant. He went from being on the top rung of his ladder to the bottom is pretty quick time. That scared me.

Been with my GF for 20 years. Neither of us want kids. We're both pretty selfish with our time. As time goes on we're happier and happier with our decision.

Lots of friends have ended up having kids over the years despite many of them saying that they never wanted kids.

People say I'm good around kids. I say that's because I don't have to be responsible nor deal with them all the time.

GF has two nieces who are a PITA for the most part and cry lots more than is necessary, esp given they're both around 10. I have two nephews (admittedly not seen for a while due to travel restrictions) who for the party part seem pretty cool, but then I think my sister does a better job at parenting than my GF's sister... Lots of high pitched screaminess along with much huffing and puffing.

Couldn't imagine having kids and the restrictions they impose upon you, especially once they reach school age and you're locked into term times. The other problem with school is having to deal with other parents... As a friend said recently, it's your kid till they go to school and you've no control over with whom they socialise, make friends with and who the parents are of new said friend.

My lad is the most incredible thing on the planet.

This is the problem with many parents.... They lose a lot of perspective and self awareness.

Have friends who think their kid is awesome and regale is with stories of a goal he scored or the marks he got in a test whilst the rest of us think the kid is a little shit.

I think kids help bring out/expose the real person. It's not always easy.
I use drugs and alcohol.

One thing I know I don't regret is engaging in arguing with people on the internet! People are entitled to their opinions, we often disagree about them. The OP asked for people's opinions on their choices, not whether they were right or wrong in the binary sense.

People live differently, do things differently, make different choices, the right choice for me is not the right choice for you and my experiences are likely different to your experiences.

Everyone take 10, go make a drink of your choosing, I'll have a coffee please. Then ask yourself, is this really something we need to argue about.

I wasn't on the forum 10 years ago but I didn't want kids then and don't want them now, probably even more so than before.

I have a cat who demands more than enough attention from me as it is! I wince when I have to fork out money for things I don't want to buy - but have to. So I can't imagine having to do that every single day for kids.

I am 100% happy with my decision and adore the amount of free time I have to do things I want to do. I am completely fine with other people wanting kids, but I definitely get people questioning my decision way more than I ever question theirs. You want kids? Fine, I don't and that is also fine.

This is the problem with many parents…. They lose a lot of perspective and self awareness

It's not a sense of perspective - it's a feeling towards another human being that is totally unique to ones offspring. Anyone without offspring couldn't possibly understand it. And it doesn't matter, you have your life, we have ours.

It’s not a sense of perspective – it’s a feeling towards another human being that is totally unique to ones offspring. Anyone without offspring couldn’t possibly understand it. And it doesn’t matter, you have your life, we have ours.

So just to clarify - you think Weeksy's lad is the most incredible thing on the plant? Not to him, to you - more incredible than your kids for example? Because that is what Weeksy is claiming. And what was being objected to.

I'm totally cool with Weeksy thinking his kid is the most incredible thing on the planet, but he like all other parents who talk the way he did, needs to appreciate that that opinion is specific and unique to them and will not be the opinion of anyone else (apart from his partner). Then he needs to moderate and nuance his language to acknowledge that. But to reiterate, in the best part of 30 years of teaching some of the worst parents I have had to deal with are those with blind love/adoration of their kids, unable to see their floors and help them with them.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying, well done you.
for reminding me why I don't get involved in these dickhead debates.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I was saying, well done you.

Well could you do the world a favour and think when you talk/type so you don't sound like the sort of parent Weeksy made himself come across as. Language and the use of is important - if you don't what to come across poorly.

But to reiterate, in the best part of 30 years of teaching some of the worst parents I have had to deal with are those with blind love/adoration of their kids, unable to see their floors and help them with them.

Language and the use of is important – if you don’t what to come across poorly.

It did take me a few reads to work out that they weren't talking about the state of their houses!

It did take me a few reads to work out that they weren’t talking about the state of their houses!

Doah! Bit of an own goal there! 🙂

for reminding me why I don’t get involved in these dickhead debates.

Except you already have and by the looks of it are getting very wound up by it .....

It's just a forum and amazingly some people have opinions which differ to you own!

Those 13 did have kids after-all and are too busy out having fun to bother replying.

That those 13 did have kids, but can’t reply as their phones are in a bowl of custard/down the toilet/behind the sofa or being used to watch paw patrol for 5 mins peace.
I say that as a dad to one son aged 3.5yrs.
It’s brilliant.

We wanted kids, tried and didn’t happen, looked at IVF but decided it wasn’t for us. Resigned ourselves to no kids and a life of holidays, biking, snowboarding, disposable income etc etc. Then it happened and he’s now 3 and a half.
Yeah it’s tough at times, but I think well worth it. From family holidays to lads and dads camping trips. He started in a hike trailer, or seat. Then a balance bike, which has now clicked and scooting everywhere and doing 3second track stands whilst laughing and telling me ‘I’m not moving’ spent an hour in a bike shop last week looking at proper bikes for him for purchase in a month or two, he's proper excited.

Some people want kids and can’t have them, some don’t want them but have them. One thing we always found hard/annoying when we couldn’t conceive was others telling us what we should do. If someone asks for advice, a chat then great, but don’t tell others what they ‘should do’ for something so personal.

Only read the first page and skimmed the rest but I feel there are a couple of points being missed here:

1
People without kids who don't regret it - fine, but who's to say they wouldn't have enjoyed life more with kids?
Obviously not a given and will vary by person, but my point is simply that "not regretting" is not necessarily the same as "was the best choice".
Trouble is, you can't know this until it's too late I guess!

2
People saying they can stand kids for short periods and then enough - this simply cannot be compared to your own kids. Night and day difference and something you cannot fully appreciate until you have them.

I never wanted kids when I was younger. Ok with them for short times but hated the idea of constantly living with them, no escape etc...
Now I have 4 young boys, it gets pretty hectic sometimes and my spare time is... what spare time?
Yes it's hard sometimes but wouldn't swap them for the world.

Actually that's another point.
People who don't have kids have a relatively easy answer to "do you regret it?". With kids, life is more complicated, it may be great but yes there are plenty of tough times and compromises as well to balance it out.

1
People without kids who don’t regret it – fine, but who’s to say they wouldn’t have enjoyed life more with kids?
Obviously not a given and will vary by person, but my point is simply that “not regretting” is not necessarily the same as “was the best choice”.
Trouble is, you can’t know this until it’s too late I guess!

Is a fine point - but why did you only phrase it one way? Why did balancing that with the reverse not come naturally to you in a rounded question?

Reproduction is a biological imperative for any successful life form. Only a few of us are strong enough to go against millions of years of evolutionary brainwashing 😉

the most blinkered parents who arguably do a less impressive job at being a parent.

Lol thanks for that

People without kids who don’t regret it – fine, but who’s to say they wouldn’t have enjoyed life more with kids?

Yeah, but that cuts both ways.

People with kids who don't regret it - who's to say they wouldn't have enjoyed life more without?

why did you only phrase it one way?

Just following the feel of the thread... the question "do you regret not having" seems to imply that having kids is generally considered a good thing.
Also biased from my own viewpoint I guess. 🙂

Fair point though, and of course can't be answered either way.
Some things would be better or worse, both ways.

Just following the feel of the thread… the question “do you regret not having” seems to imply that having kids is generally considered a good thing.

Well yes, that assumption/implication (and the questioning of it) is literally the point of the OP's post!

People without kids who don’t regret it – fine, but who’s to say they wouldn’t have enjoyed life more with kids? Obviously not a given and will vary by person, but my point is simply that “not regretting” is not necessarily the same as “was the best choice”. Trouble is, you can’t know this until it’s too late I guess!

I think this is true for most things, though. There are few decisions where you are happy with your choice AND can say with 100% certainty that you wouldn't have been happier any other way. What you studied, who you asked on a date, what jobs you applied for, which house you bought. All you can really say is whether you are happy now. Could I have 'enjoyed life more' if I bought some other house? Possibly. It's very hard to say. Do I regret buying this house? No, I am happy and I like this one.

I think the OP is dealing with the worry that if they don't have kids, it will eat them up in later life. And that's a different question to whether they will be maximising their potential enjoyment of life.

People who don’t have kids have a relatively easy answer to “do you regret it?”.

But it seems a lot of people can’t except the answer “no I don’t regret it” and have to chip in with how we’re wrong, we don’t have full knowledge, you have substitute pets, look at my kids they’re great. Seems there’s no such thing as live and let live with this choice

^ This. The OP’s question is whether people who don’t have kids regret it. Quite why people who actually have kids are chipping in with their opinions is beyond me.

For the record, those with kids have a private, 'was this really worth it' moment most days.

im in my late 40's. never wanted them, so never had them, and i have never once regretted it.
i do sometimes feel cheated that i dont have the 'kids are sick' excuse to have a day off work.

For the record, those with kids have a private, ‘was this really worth it’ moment most days.

For the record - not every parent. Some days I am frustrated by our kids but I can honestly say I have not once thought 'was this worth it' in 13 years of parenthood.

But it seems a lot of people can’t except the answer “no I don’t regret it” and have to chip in with how we’re wrong, we don’t have full knowledge, you have substitute pets, look at my kids they’re great. Seems there’s no such thing as live and let live with this choice

I think if you are reading this thread as someone with children this is a very valid point and why some might come over prinkly. This is a relatively anonymous forum where posting acerbic comments that might be easier than in real life with your mum or your friend's wife etc. A punching bag if you will. Childfree is a choice that comes with a lot of judgment for some of us. If there is a takeaway from this, it's maybe that if you have kids and are happy with your lot think twice before you question the decisions of others you know and love in real life. And when using language about your choice, try to not make it come over as obviously judgemental of others who chose a different path.

Some people are in Bucket A (Have kids) which is great. Others are in Bucket B (No kids) which is also great.

I feel sorry for those who find themselves in the wrong bucket for whatever reason.

But people in one bucket trying to tell others they are in the wrong bucket is often unnecessary and hurtful.

I don't think my sister or BIL would honestly say they don't regret kids. Sister is getting broody, so has just bought a pup, and it's currently being pushed round in a pram. They do walk it, but not far, so the longer walk to the pub is in a pram !

FFS a dog in a pram.

Childfree is a choice that comes with a lot of judgment for some of us.

it's not always a choice! Which makes it worse because then it's like this -

<gruelling series of debilitating miscarriages and hospital visits, etc. Years pass >

- "I don't have kids, and I am now happy with my life"

- "ah, but could you have been happier with kids? Hmm? It's great having kids. You should have done it. I don't see why you didn't want them. Don't you regret it? I would've."

- "HNNNNGGGHHHHHHHRRRRGGGHHHH" <deep breath>

As Blackflag said above, if your not interested in having children and don't have them you'll probably not regret it. If you want children and have them you'll probably not regret it. Those that either can't have children and want them or are encouraged to have children when they don't they are the ones that I feel for.

Also childfree people may sound defensive sometimes but I've had a lifetime of people telling me that I'll regret my decision and sometimes it gets annoying. I'll shortly be too old to have them and have no regrets.

Genuine comment from a person we've never met before (old work colleague) to me and my husband at my mother in laws funeral this year "I think your mums biggest regret was that she never had grandchildren" I mean WTF how did she think that was an appropriate thing to say to anyone.

One of my best mates was quite "we don't want kids" for a long time. Then, when he'd had a few drinks, he opened up about them trying for years. He was really upset by the whole thing and he's previous personna was all front.

Its a deeply personal matter so telling others what they should or should not be doing, even if you think its for their own good, is a bit crass.

Genuine comment from a person we’ve never met before (old work colleague) to me and my husband at my mother in laws funeral this year “I think your mums biggest regret was that she never had grandchildren” I mean WTF how did she think that was an appropriate thing to say to anyone.

FFS. That's shocking.

i do sometimes feel cheated that i dont have the ‘kids are sick’ excuse to have a day off work.

I've never worked anywhere where you get a free day off for sick kids, comes out of holidays! And you often spend the day cleaning up sick / poo.

Some people are in Bucket A (Have kids) which is great. Others are in Bucket B (No kids) which is also great.

I feel sorry for those who find themselves in the wrong bucket for whatever reason.

But people in one bucket trying to tell others they are in the wrong bucket is often unnecessary and hurtful.

Perfectly put.

Some days I am frustrated by our kids but I can honestly say I have not once thought ‘was this worth it’ in 13 years of parenthood.

Only 13yrs you say, perhaps you should come back to us after the next say 6yrs 🤔
Dick 33yrs of parenting & counting, regrets I've had a few 😜

My mate and his Mrs have always said they don't want kids, too expensive, too restrictive, ruin your house etc.

In their infinite wisdom they got 2 very expensive pedigree dogs. They now don't go away as they wont leave them with anybody, all UK holidays have to be close to home as one of the dogs gets car sick. They don't go out as a couple in the evening as the dogs don't like being left alone. They cost a fortune in fancy food, vets and grooming. My mate even changed his car to an estate with a bigger boot for the dogs.

Then to top it all off, one of the dogs ate the corner off a very expensive kitchen unit.

I notice nobody has popped up yet to say they regret not having kids.

*waves* I regret not having kids.

My first wife and I were 'don't knows' for many years, but as we grew older our feelings on the matter polarised. I did, she didn't. By her early 30s she once and for all decided that she definitely didn't. I accepted her decision and we moved on. The subject was never raised again. It would just be 'us two' for the rest of our lives and I was happy with that. So was she.

Thing is, things were never really the same again and for various reasons (many of which I've forgotten) we drifted apart. By our early 40s we were divorced.

Single again, I felt no urge to find another wife and have kids with her. Instead I happened to meet a lovely divorcee who'd had four kids with her first husband (all of whom were teenagers by the time I was on the scene) and didn't what any more - which was absolutely fine. I suddenly had four 'step kids'.

I'd had no experience of dealing with kids/teens but fortunately they were all very independent, strong-willed, and they had a perfectly-good dad still on the scene, so I was very much a spare and not really needed (though I obviously stepped-in when I was).

Soon after, however, her eldest son had a baby - making my GF (now my second wife) a grandmother at 44. Which sorta made me a grandad.

Being a 'grandad' to now TWO small boys whom I've known since birth, has shown me to some extent what I've been missing. It's given me a taster of what being a parent is like. And I love it. I love spending time with them, looking after them, playing with them, teaching them and watching them grow.

I will never forget when I used to pick the eldest grandson up from his Nursery School: his face would light up when he saw me and he'd literally run into my arms. This evening they're coming to stay with us for a week or so while their mum's in Hospital and dad has to work. I cannot wait to see them 🙂

I only have four regrets in my life:

Not having children;
Not realising 1st marriage was over seven years earlier;
Not going to Wembley to see my team win their play-off final and gain promotion;
Not Seeing Anthony Sher’s Lear at the RSC in 2018.

One of my greatest pleasures as a son is calling out parents inward looking, old person thinking and getting them to open their mind (a bit). 🙂

One of the best things about having children is that they are brutally honest with you and make you open your mind (a bit). 🙂

People saying they can stand kids for short periods and then enough – this simply cannot be compared to your own kids.

Why?

Are they like farts, everyone else's stink but your own smell of lilac?

Why?

Are they like farts, everyone else’s stink but your own smell of lilac?

Blinded by love 😍

Oh and they can definitely stink. The farts and the kids.

I knew when I was about 14/15yrs old that I didn't want to have kids.
53 this year and have never regretted never having kids.
My brother however has six children by three different mothers!

My only regret regarding kids is waiting so long - i was 34 when we had our first and 37 when we had our youngest - i think i always knew i wanted to be a Dad, but, much to my wife's frustration kept putting it off.

However, i was previously in a relationship with a girl who was absolutely adamant she didn't want kids, and my wife went through some health issues during which we didn't think we were going to be able to have kids - during both periods i'd got a long way along the road reconciling myself with the fact i would not be a Dad - and i think i'd have been cool with it.

Daddy
Yes, son
Wha-what does-what does regret mean?
Well, son, a funny thing about regret is
That it's better to regret something you have done
Than regret something you haven't done
By the way, if you see your mom this weekend, be sure and tell her...

Why?

Are they like farts, everyone else’s stink but your own smell of lilac?

There's no rational explaination but it's something like that. You'll just have to trust those that have experienced both sides of the coin as oppose to your opinion formed from one side of

Do you regret never owning an elephant?

Every, single, day.

For those thinking that having the nephew and niece over for an evening or borrowing a friends kids gives insight in to being a parent, it really doesn’t. Very difficult to explain and not meant to be patronising, but it’s very different when they are yours. Nothing I hate more than other peoples kids. They can all piss off. My own though, well they’re mine and just looking at them fills me with all sorts of emotions.

Thinking back to when Funk Jr was a toddler. We went to the local Fun for Nobody and a bigger kid, about seven, pushed him over and made him cry (proper crying too). I could’ve cheerfully kicked that small child and his mum in to low Earth orbit. Someone else’s kid, even a family members, m’eh! Wouldn’t care

 

No one who hasn’t had kids can make an informed decision as to whether they regret it.

you are wrong.

i can’t help thinking that when people with children vehemently defend their decision or criticize other peoples’ decision and their reasons to not have children, or say “when they first ride a bike/read/whatever it’s the greatest day ever” are trying to fool themselves that being a parent is great. that, or they are in denial. (i’m exaggerating, by the way.)

witnessing these things does possibly make for the best day ever, but in the big picture they are a very small part of being a parent.

i’m a parent. i love my son with all my heart and the vast majority of my life is spent with him and doing things to keep him alive and prepare him for the next step. i just don’t understand all the gushing that goes on about how great being a parent is. it’s not all doom and gloom and fights and trips to the naughty step, but a lot of it is. and my son is an angel compared to some of the children in our neighbourhood and that isn’t a blinkered opinion.

Are they like farts, everyone else’s stink but your own smell of lilac?

not exactly, but you can learn a lot about yourself from experiencing them.

Be at peace with whatever decision you make (or what life gives you). Life is too short and inconsequential to get hung up about this.

^^^ This.

You choose your path. Make sure you are absolutely sure about the path you are taking in life and any form of doubts will crush you heavily near the end of life when you are alone. Live without regrets and depart without regrets.

Why?

Are they like farts, everyone else’s stink but your own smell of lilac?

Oxytocin

Recent events in my life have led me to ponder this question again. Im 61 a widower and alone in the world. Aging parents still around. Sister and family live abroad.

Im still content to be childless. It was my choice and one I am happy with.

My life has been adventurous and free
I would make the same decisions if i was 25 and knew then what I know now.

I would make the same decisions if i was 25 and knew then what I know now.

I sure as shit wouldn't.

Still wouldn't have kids, though.

(-:

I would definitely take the same decision again to become a parent; my ex would, I know as a statement of fact, say and do exactly the same.
No regrets at all - not now, not ever.

On a personal level theres nothing I want more than a kid or 2. However we tried for years, were now both 40, cant afford IVF the and missus isnt that bothered for kids now anyway TBH. Saddens me but thats the card I was dealt. I do believe the planets over crowded anyway so at least I'm not contributing I suppose.

it’s not all doom and gloom and fights and trips to the naughty step, but a lot of it is. and my son is an angel compared to some of the children in our neighbourhood and that isn’t a blinkered opinion.

I find posts like this very saddening. In the last 5 years i honestly can't recall more than 1 occasion where i've had to enforce the rules with mine. I think there was another than was a "do you want me to sit you on the stairs and talk to you like you're 5 again".... but that's seriously it...

Have kids, like most I suspect; my first was an accident. Second was planned. No regrets, they seem like well adjusted humans, I like them, I think they like me, (at least they pretend to wen they're around me) other people find them OK also, My job in that respect seems to have been a success, yey!

I feel sad for folks who want kids but can't have them, I was completely ambivalent before having mine.

Life (especially at the young age I was) is never clear, what you want one days often changes and as we grow we see things differently. To misquote Jefferson "we may as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him a boy" to live in a world when once you made a decision on something it never gets changed

you are wrong.

i can’t help thinking that when people with children vehemently defend their decision or criticize other peoples’ decision and their reasons to not have children, or say “when they first ride a bike/read/whatever it’s the greatest day ever” are trying to fool themselves that being a parent is great. that, or they are in denial.

You took one piece of my post and read into it what you wanted. I didn’t criticise anyones choice. I didn’t “gush”, I didn’t say it was the “best thing ever” I didn’t say “being a parent was great”. I most certainly didn’t “vehemently defend” being a parent. Quite the contrary, I said it was hard, messy and for me during the early years, very difficult.

What I said was that it’s the small things that makes the difference and it’s the small things that people without kids don’t see AND that it’s difficult to explain and quantify those things.

As for the elephant/drugs analogy - don’t be so obtuse.

i just don’t understand all the gushing that goes on about how great being a parent

Maybe some of us are more proud of our kids achievements than you are, maybe some kids deserve it because their achievements are hard fought.

. I didn’t criticise anyones choice.

Your actual words;

No one who hasn’t had kids can make an informed decision as to whether they regret it.

That’s criticism.

Maybe some of us are more proud of our kids achievements than you are, maybe some kids deserve it because their achievements are hard fought.

Robin Williams did a routine about kids and not knowing if they'd end up "I'd like to thank the Nobel committee" or "Do you want fries with that?"

The important thing to bear in mind is that the second option may be just as hard fought as the former, depending on their route through life.

not exactly, but you can learn a lot about yourself from experiencing them.

I know more than enough about myself already to know that I don't want kids.

So many parents tell me that having kids is one of the most amazing experiences of life - and for them I'm sure it is. But they also treat it like it's the rarest, most special thing in the world. It's not, it's one of the most common things in the world. That's fine and there's nothing wrong with that, but because I haven't had kids I've had the time and money to be able to experience things like spending 3 months scuba diving in the Caribbean, hiking among the tallest mountains in the world in Nepal and so many other things that are a lot, lot harder to do if you have kids.

Nothing about the last five or six years persuades me that having kids would be a sane decision.

That said, I know plenty of people with kids who haven't stopped having adventurous, fulfilling lives, going where they want and doing what they want. Being really rich seems to help.

@kilo - It’s not criticism of anyones choice, is it!?

Arguably, it’s not criticism at all. It’s a statement, one borne out by the facts I laid out.

The vast majority of those without kids don’t have first hand experience of living day to day, with kids. Those with kids do have experience of what life was like without them. Is there something factually incorrect with this statement?

I’m not in any way criticising someone’s choice, I simply stated that those with kids have a fuller picture, a balanced equation, if you will.

Your implication is that I’m somehow imbalanced in my perception as I’m on one side of that equation. I’m not.

All I said was that there’s a lot you don’t see that sometimes, not always, makes the graft worthwhile.

One again, I never criticised someone’s CHOICE to have kids. What I criticised, was the ability to make an calculated decision when you don’t have all the variables.

Only 13yrs you say, perhaps you should come back to us after the next say 6yrs

Perhaps, but it's still more than 2/3rds of their childhood without such thoughts.

The vast majority of those without kids don’t have first hand experience of living day to day, with kids. Those with kids do have experience of what life was like without them. Is there something factually incorrect with this statement?

Reasonable point.

My retort would be that you know the you after you had kids and the chemical changes that happened in your and your wife's body post birth (that helps you to become a better parent). You don't know the future childfree you that never was any more than the childfree people know truly what they might have morphed into had life gone a different 'with child' way.

Also, and this is semantic but important, you know the you who had not had children YET. Trust me (and you'll have to trust me on this as you won't know as you never experienced it) that is a totally (and I really mean that) different feeling and experience to that of having been childfree forever irrevocably.

So it cuts both ways.

One again, I never criticised someone’s CHOICE to have kids. What I criticised, was the ability to make an calculated decision when you don’t have all the variables.

Someone made the point previously, but it's worth making again I think. The discussion has drifted from the OPs initial question. That was, do those who elected to be childfree regret it longer term. Not, did they lead the best life they could have, but did they regret it - from their perspective and experience beyond that decision. As per usual on this, those with children felt they had to stick their oar in with lots of kids and having kids is awesums posts. Great, I'm glad it was - for you. But why did you feel the need to post that? What was it adding to answering the initial question, other than maybe to validate your own choice or subversively question those who answered the initial request with a subtle (or not so subtle in your case) "look what you could have had, you just didn't know enough to make a proper choice".

So in short, your opinion is irrelevant when measured against the initial point of the OP.

@kilo – It’s not criticism of anyones choice, is it!?

It’s like people saying I don’t mean it in a racist way when they crack a joke someone finds offensive - you don’t get to decide if you’ve given offence, the recipient does.

You are saying my view of my decision is uninformed this, to me, implies that you are consequently saying my original choice might not be correct. If I had this greater knowledge I would now be riven with regret.

Your implication is that I’m somehow imbalanced in my perception as I’m on one side of that equation. I’m not.

My implication is that it’s not necessary to have full and complete understanding of every facet of a situation to make a decision that is correct for me. Indeed in this binary choice it would be virtually impossible to achieve your full understanding whilst remaining childless, it is a non sequitur.

I’m not in any way criticising someone’s choice, I simply stated that those with kids have a fuller picture, a balanced equation, if you will.

That is a criticism and tbe same applies the other way

You cannot have a full understanding of the joys of a childfree life

The key here is understanding the role of oxytocin in having kids. Thats what makes it joyful. Just the release of hormones/ neurotransmitters

That said, I know plenty of people with kids who haven’t stopped having adventurous, fulfilling lives, going where they want and doing what they want. Being really rich seems to help.

And being a man rather than a women seems to really help too. I meet plenty of men-with-wife-and-children-at-home on bike, ski trips, climbing trips. Some child-free women. Hardily ever do I meet a woman who has left the hubby and kids at home to peruse a week's activities for her self.

I was asked yesterday if I had any intention to "settle down" (i.e. have children) by a work colleague. I've been with my partner in a loving and monogamous relationship for 15 years. I'm not sure its possible to be more settled.

It’s like people saying I don’t mean it in a racist way when they crack a joke someone finds offensive – you don’t get to decide if you’ve given offence, the recipient does.

If you had children you would long ago have learnt some perspective and not to take offence so easily.

I’m not in any way criticising someone’s choice, I simply stated that those with kids have a fuller picture, a balanced equation, if you will.

I don't think that's the case. There's a big difference between being childless at 28, but fairly sure that you will have kids, and at 50 when you know it's not an option. The absence of children doesn't make it the same.

You might as well say that me and Tim Henman both know what it's like to never have won Wimbledon. Technically true, but qualitatively they are very different experiences.

Those with kids do have experience of what life was like without them. Is there something factually incorrect with this statement?

Yes there is. You have no idea what a childfree life is like because you haven't experienced it. 45 years of childfree adulthood has to be lived to understand it. You do NOT have the experience of a childfree life. Just some childfree years

who gets vertigo in thick socks

Love that. Never heard it before. Will be using extensively in future. This thread has finally paid off.

I find posts like this very saddening. In the last 5 years i honestly can’t recall more than 1 occasion where i’ve had to enforce the rules with mine. I think there was another than was a “do you want me to sit you on the stairs and talk to you like you’re 5 again”…. but that’s seriously it…

What's the point of this? To tell us all what an amazing dad you are? Or how compliant your children are?

You are saying my view of my decision is uninformed this, to me, implies that you are consequently saying my original choice might not be correct. If I had this greater knowledge I would now be riven with regret.

@kilo - not uninformed, not at all, but maybe incomplete? Certainly it doesn't, in any way make your choice less valid - I think what I was trying to get across (badly it seems) is that there's a raft of things that maybe don't equal the burden (and I don't use that term lightly) of children, but it gives something positive that's hard to explain. I couldn't explain to my 30y old self any better than I'm managing to strangers in this thread.

Yes there is. You have no idea what a childfree life is like because you haven’t experienced it. 45 years of childfree adulthood has to be lived to understand it. You do NOT have the experience of a childfree life. Just some childfree years

Now that's rubbish @tjagain. I had 30 years of child free life, lived in cities, holidayed around the world, went out to 6 in the morning, rode my MTB whenever I wanted...well mostly, I still had the GF/Wife, but I had freedom. I've had 30 years of child free and 10 of them as a professional after graduation. I've had more life without kids (31y) and as an adult (11y) than I have with them (10y). I still get to do the first 2 (it's just more expensive), am not at all bothered by the 3rd one and, well, I do admit to missing the 4th one.

Yes there is. You have no idea what a childfree life is like because you haven’t experienced it. 45 years of childfree adulthood has to be lived to understand it. You do NOT have the experience of a childfree life. Just some childfree years

I might also add, having some childfree years when you intend on having children in the future may well give you a very different experience of those years than someone who wishes to remain child free.

You cannot have a full understanding of the joys of a childfree life

its still more relevant experience than your absolutely zero experience of a life with child. .....

Some thoughts on parenting and an active life:

There’s a fair few people above posting about not regretting not having kids as they can do more with their time. For all of us this would invariably mean more MTB and other active pursuits. Honest parents here would prob admit this is what they would envy most of their alternative imagined child-free existence.

As a parent, I found the pinch on my time to be one of the harder aspects to get to grips with. But I don’t regret the rides I’ve missed as I was needed at home and really enjoy seeing my kids learn and progress their own riding.

Eventually I’d like to get to a point where I’m sharing the amazing experience of a trans-Alpine bike trip with them, as I got to do with my dad.

So I worry less about quantity of rides and focus more on quality, by which I mean who I ride with, the craic, the buzz, etc. I know this isn’t exclusive to being a parent but the time constraints do help you to appreciate every moment you do manage to get for yourself.

I do think that if I didn’t have a love of bikes that parenting would be harder/more boring if I’m honest, it can be a grind that you need an escape from.

Obviously no regrets though. It felt like a natural choice 8years ago. If I was considering having kids today I would think harder. Not sure which way it would go tbh…

"Those with kids do have experience of what life was like without them. Is there something factually incorrect with this statement? "

I think it misses the difference in feelings between someone who wants children and just hasn't had them yet and someone who never wants children.

Apparently when I was under 10 I announced that I didn't want children when asked about growing up. I'm heading towards 50 and don't want children. I've never felt the slightest broodiness when I've been given someone elses child.

As someone who wanted children you have no experience of how I feel as even before you had children I'm guessing you had some interest in them.

Through years of judgement I feel I ought to add a paragraph about how I'm not an unfeeling monster but I'm not going to because my feelings on having my own children don't affect how I feel about anything else. It would be unfeeling to have a child because I'd "probably" love my own.