Signed
Although I didn't see the wording until after I had signed it!
Nowco3mes the real test. Will the European leaders stand together, support ukraine and collectively tell trump to go eff himself? Can Starmer resist being split off from the rest with an offer of no tarriffs?
Both are difficult to do but imo essential
i don't think standing with europe and supporting ukraine require telling trump to go **** himself. my feeling is that europe continuing to support ukraine and thereby feeding money in to the US' defence contractors to some extent will be just fine. it's a win/win for the US short term. longer term i think europe (including UK) will look to sourcing our own weapons platforms and will diverge from the US defence infrastructure in the same way the french have. increased trade and cooperation with the EU. not the way any of us would have wanted it, but every silver lining has a cloud. (-:
The one good thing about that **** coming over for a state visit is the inevitable orchestrated ‘Janey Godley’ campaign I’ll get involved in. Cops might move on the odd sign but if everyone turns up with one…
I don't expect him to visit Britain or Western Europe any time soon as he won't be safe anywhere outside the American Embassies.
The good news is that we can afford eggs over here.
Petition signed.
It's going to be really difficult for European leaders now to unite and strongly support Zelensky and Ukraine without antagonising the narcissist in the Whitehouse any more than we have to because any tariff dispute with America is likely to hurt us more than him.
Its a clear choice. No fence sitting. Its either kowtow to trump or support Ukraine. My fear is Starmer allows himself / the uk to be split offfrom the rest of Europe. My hope is we get a clear united European position ( apart from Hungary).
I agree tja . It's a clear choice we support Ukraine and make that very clear to Trump as quietly and calmly as possible
Copied from a Twitter link
The reporter who asked Zelensky if he owned a suit, Brian Glenn, is from the pro-Trump network Real America’s Voice and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend. He got one of the rare Oval Office interviewer spots after the White House blocked the Associated Press
There is no choice between the USA and Ukraine here. Trump has said it is for Europe to defend itself, so when/if European leaders gather today and announce their support for Ukraine it will be taken by much of the media as a win for Trump rather than a rebuttal. Or course what it really is will be apparent to us all… another strategic win for Putin. The West just keeps handing them to him, delivered by right wing populist movements in so many countries, not least our own.
Trumos media pals may play it as a win but it is not. Its another damaging step in US isolation and loss of power.
Trump has said it is for Europe to defend itself, so when/if European leaders gather today and announce their support for Ukraine it will be taken by much of the media as a win for Trump rather than a rebuttal.
Yep, it'll allow Trump to stand there and say "I told the Europeans to up their game and they have, look at me being all strong".
On the other hand, there's no easy way out for anybody that doesn't give Trump that narrative.
Petition signed.
Trumps actions are isolating the US from the rest of "the West". He can have America first if he wants it. Europe needs to come together for it's own security if it cannot rely on fickle American support going forward - a hard lesson learned.
The wording after this weekends meeting needs to be absolutely clear. Maybe something like this
Just watched a little more of the ‘meeting’ this morning.
obviously was just a complete setup including the press.
Complete bullying BS.
Trump sees this whole thing as a business deal and his chance to get a part of history (because he failed last time to do anything)
because he failed last time to do anything
On the international stage at least Trump did manage to get the Abraham Accords signed. Personally I'm not a fan but many consider that it serves United States interests in the Middle East, certainly Joe Biden was a fan and tried (and failed) to include Saudi Arabia.
Trump supporters also saw pulling the United States out of Afghanistan as a win.
I've considered that disgraceful spectacle for a while now.
The seating is set out the same for the visits of President Macron and PM Starmer and the cameras stay on President Trump and guest the same, until it begins to get heated around 35 mins in, so I don't believe that it's a tag-team set-up
President Zelensky can be blunt, we've heard it before, but there's absolutely no empathy shown either by Trump or VP Vance because he objected to Trump's wish for a ceasefire.
Zelensky wants a lasting peace and it's surely understandable for someone speaking in a second language and who must be battered and exhausted after more than three years of invasion to be a little blunt.
I did wonder if there was some notion of breaking Zelensky both personally and publicly for the people of Ukraine to force a change of President to someone who would acquiesce to the US, but I saw anger rather than a plan. Trump reverted to his beliefs of "$350bn" and "you’re not acting at all thankful" (Zelensky has been thankful on many occasions before and the last time that Trump gave Ukraine anything was in his first presidency), etc.
This post from the aptly-named winston sums it up for me
There is no Machiavellian plan - if only as that would signify some kind of cohesive idea as to how all this is going to pan out.
It's notable that Marco Rubio, the US Secretary of State, just sat without a word for either side
From Reuters
DENMARK'S FOREIGN MINISTER LARS LOKKE RASMUSSEN ON FACEBOOK
"It's a punch in the gut for Ukraine. ... There must be room for robust conversations - even between friends. But when it happens in front of rolling cameras like that, there is only one winner. And he sits in the Kremlin."JOHANN WADEPHUL, DEPUTY OF CONSERVATIVE PARTY-GROUP IN GERMAN PARLIAMENT, THE PARTY OF INCOMING CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ, ON X
"The scenes from the White House are shocking. How can you stab the president of an invaded country in the back like this? Free Europe will not betray Ukraine!" https://www.reuters.com/world/world-reacts-zelenskiy-trump-oval-office-clash-2025-02-28/
Rubio has commented. He’s doubled down on the Trump/Vance line. Claiming a man repeatedly saying thank you hasn’t said thank you. Repeat your lines… make your own truths. The Putin approach is in full effect in the White House.
EDIT: and on Rubio…
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/politics/rubio-zelensky-apology-trump-cnntv/index.html
Only 47 months to go.
Yep more than enough time to make sure that everything/everyone is in place (or not in place) to ensure that the election isn’t stolen this time round 🙁
The masks are off and we are seeing how Trump and JD operate.
Unfortunately, all Europe can offer at this point is warm words. If Trump cuts off US support (and Musk turns off Starlink) Putin will be in Kiev long before Europe are able to fill the gap.
Of course, China could offer to guarantee Ukrainian sovereignty in exchange for a chunk if its minerals. What should we do then?
more like 24 months, If the Republicans carry on like they have been - slashing benefits like Medicaid (that many of their supporters rely on) they're going to be killed in the mid-terms, and if the Dems regain control of the House or the Senate or even both, that's the Trump presidency chopped of at the knees.
Kimbers' petition is now in for moderation, so can't be signed any more for a while until its released again, apparently.
In the meantime, with respect to this idea
Just contemplating how much less I can buy from American companies over the next 4 years...
I was in GoOutdoors the other day, idly browsing, and saw a MSR Whisperlite stove. Always fancied one of those. Then I spotted Made in USA on the bo, so it went straight back on the shelf. Bollocks to 'em.
Bringing over from the UK Gov thread. Trump and Vance were disgraceful, but sadly IMHO Zelensky got angry too and didn't play the limited hand he has well, which has only inflamed a situation (rather - given two ** looking for a fight he got dragged in)
Jeremy Bowen on BBC is reporting that among the press pack rumours are circulating that this was an ambush staged presumably for Trump's red meat audience. That as with these press conference staged meetings, the work has already been done behind the scenes and the 'discussion' between the leaders is essentially improvised around a defined script. And that T&V and their press shills never intended to stick to the script. Which makes him even more of a * than ever, but Z got played as collateral in that.
And so that's what we have to deal with, so deal with it we must.
(not sure why that has gone red bold, not my doing)
Of course he got angry, he was ambushed in Trump's throne room in front of the US media, and then humiliated by god-fearing Vance.
Zelensky probably felt trapped. Zelensky and Europe must be astonished that the 'leader of the free world' is siding with a mass murderer.
A vile display by two despicable useful idiots.
Seems to be a bit of dual standards form the suit police; musk striding about the Whitehouse in his black hat costume goes completely unchallenged.
The form horse does seem to be with Vance putting the boot in on the world stage. These could just be over stimulated outbursts or they could be part of a bigger scheme. It's hard to tell with someone who's business face appears a bit toddler trying to figure out if the last one was gas or liquid.
I'm feeling pessimistic and could be persuaded there is an anti Europe agenda in play.
toddler trying to figure out if the last one was gas or liquid.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Anyone heard from Nigel Farage? For someone who's constantly crowing about his matey friendship with Trump,he's been rather quiet this week.
Its a week now since he last commented, saying that we shouldn't take what Trump says literally.
Well Nige, after yesterdays little display I think we most definitely DO need to take what he says literally
Nigel Farage has more important things to worry about
https://www.cityam.com/gb-news-huge-losses-continue-despite-sales-and-audience-surge/
EDIT: and on Rubio…
@kelvin Granted I only watch the full 50 minutes on a timeline search, but the only time that I spotted Secretary Rubio take part was when he commented on UK and European free speech v US free speech.
Did he only comment on the arguments later?
Anyone heard from Nigel Farage?
Anyone heard from Starmer? Two days ago he was laughing and joking with his new best mate but yeah, let’s focus on the MP for a shitty seaside town rather than the Prime Minister.
I'm feeling pessimistic and could be persuaded there is an anti Europe agenda in play.
Of course there is. The EU as a bloc is seen as a threat by both the Trumpists and Putin (and by the tech bros)
I was in GoOutdoors the other day, idly browsing, and saw a MSR Whisperlite stove. Always fancied one of those. Then I spotted Made in USA on the bo, so it went straight back on the shelf. Bollocks to 'em.
What about Primus?
Anyone heard from Nigel Farage?
Weird you focus on Farage when two days ago our very own Prime Minister was sat in the oval office laughing and joking with his new best mate. I note Starmer has also been very quiet since yesterday's shitshow. He's probably thinking what the hell he's going to do about the state visit he was premature in arranging to buy some favour with a fascist demagogue.
Weird you focus on Farage when two days ago our very own Prime Minister was sat in the oval office laughing and joking with his new best mate.
Watching Newsnight the other night, the general consensus was - even by those who've been hammering him relentlessly - that Starmer had played Trump on same level as Putin regularly does
I note Starmer has also been very quiet since yesterday's shitshow.
You've not been paying attention to the news today then? You really should try and keep up mate, or at least try to control that violently jerking knee that you always have such an issue with... 😉
Starmer gives ‘unwavering support for Ukraine’ after White House confrontation
I note Starmer has also been very quiet since yesterday's shitshow.
What did you want him to do, ruin any chance of rescuing this agreement?
Starmer gives ‘unwavering support for Ukraine’ after White House confrontation
Seems like a reasonable thing in the circs. (I can't read the Indy as a freeloader)
I wasn't surprised by yesterdays circus. I was pretty surprised they got to a point of signing something as I thought it likely to fall to pieces as the US wouldn't sign up to security guarantees. I use the phrase US there instead of Trump as he's head of their government, and he patently doesn't care at all about human beings.
I'm not surprised Zelensky got angry. You might not be bothered by 1000's of casualties, torture, rape and utter destruction but he is. I am not surprised Farage isn't saying much, he isn't stupid and he'll know this is bad. Starmer did the best he could.
I was however utterly appalled by JD Vance picking a fight for the TV. If Trump is bad I think he is worse, and genuinely evil. And if Trump dies he'll be president 🙁
And if Trump dies he'll be president
That really is a truly terrifying prospect.
Going back to Alex Brooker on the Last Leg last night who summed up his performance yesterday as 'that snidey little shit at school who gobs off at everyone because he's got his big, hard older brother stood behind him'
Thats pretty bang on!
Every time I see him I think of this. Actually that applies to most Trump supporters
I'm not surprised Zelensky got angry. You might not be bothered by 1000's of casualties, torture, rape and utter destruction but he is.
If that's aimed towards me; of course I am. Be in no doubt he was ambushed by a pair of c**** and it was disgraceful; he did well to not punch one of them.
But - and this is the but - in doing so he got played and against all that *should* have, I'm very sad to say, found a way to suck it up. Shouldn't have needed to but that I'm afraid is the current POTUS who holds the cards.
It's a shitshow and I'm very afraid; hopefully the adults can navigate a path through the next 48 hours.
My daughter is due to go to Camp America again this year to work. Probably New Jersey area. She went last year and had a blast, but I am starting to feel quite nervous about her going this year, is it a bit OTT to be anxious about that?
For those wondering what our PM is doing he is hosting Ukraine's leader at 10 downing St right about now.
My daughter is due to go to Camp America again this year to work. Probably New Jersey area. She went last year and had a blast, but I am starting to feel quite nervous about her going this year, is it a bit OTT to be anxious about that?
Obvs don't know exact circumstances but in general I don't think it's unsafe. Whether you want to be supporting the US economy and by extension its regime is another matter.
My wife and I have dropped our idea for a tour of the southern states for the time being; I don't know that my son would feel safe there with the emboldening of the anti-LGBTQ+ types, and while there are loads of reasonable people around still, it only takes one. NJ is a different place, and white straight girl (assumption, sorry) is a different situation.
By the same token - I can't in good conscience go on a lads trip to Budapest this year. The support (treatment, hormone therapies) I have supported him with would effectively make me a criminal in Hungary.
Tokenism, maybe. But matters to me.
"I don’t see what you expect Zelensky to have done here."
'Sucked up' - I'm afraid. Definitely not antagonise back - if Trump does now pull all support for sure he's the * but we're all *ed as a result.
"You're absolutely right Mr President, without your support we would be toast. I'm very grateful as are my people. That is why I am here, to ask for your continued support and to strike a deal that we both agree to over how we can compensate you with mineral rights.....
it's a sordid process, and negotiating with the likes of Trump only make it more so - neither of them are politicians or diplomats. It's possible to be 100% on the right side of the argument and still make a mess of being on that side.
Keeping his mouth shut and taking some punishment wasn't an option. They want a fight by one way or another so they think they can walk away and look good at home.
What value is there to any peace deal which relies on goodwill and trust without some backup? American guarantees without boots on the ground are worth zero. But it will be european troops now
(assume/guessing)
(guessing)
The situation sounds like
Sounds like you're just making wild guesses. My guess is that you don't really have any evidence to back up what you claim.
My daughter is due to go to Camp America again this year to work. Probably New Jersey area. She went last year and had a blast, but I am starting to feel quite nervous about her going this year, is it a bit OTT to be anxious about that?
Bigger picture beyond safety......
Trump didn't get this power unaided. He got it because the majority of the US population heard him speak and actively wanted him to have it by going out and voting for him. They actually like what he's doing and how he does it. And we are not talking about the uneducated underbelly of American society - we are talking about those with education and average or better household income.
So my question to her would be......why would you want to surround yourself with such total shit stains? Far too many of them have loathsome opinions and such ****ed up values to want to voluntarily put yourself amongst them. I'd go further......it says pretty poor things about you if you could hold your nose and go anyway - like those who holidayed in South Africa in the 80s because the beaches were so lovely and the hired help so cheap.
On a positive note , even the most gammony of my relatives thinks trump is a ****.
