Donald! Trump!

I do agree.. Regarding the state visit.. Rather than cancelling, a perpetual sick note /schedule clash from Charles, and Starmer to do similar... Too busy dealing with domestic issues etc. So it never actually happens.

Path of least resistance and maintaining an air of deplomacy so as not to burn bridges.

Posted by: molgrips

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So who's going to do these jobs?

Kids

Posted by: ernielynch

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However it is not reasonable to expect the UK government to now withdraw the invitation (

It absolutely is reasonable. The invite was made before Zelenskys Oval Office ambush, before the deportations with no legal process, before the tariffs trashed international trade.

It is absolutely reasonable to use the diplomatic option of withdrawing or delaying his visit to show our revulsion at him and his policies. There is no special relationship to protect any more. 

Trump and his US government need putting on the international diplomacy equivalent of the naughty step. To pretend that we "just can't" because he won't like it is, frankly, bizarre.

Well I don't think it is reasonable to expect the UK government to withdraw the invitation but good luck if you think Starmer might.

That's very conservative of you Ernie. 😉

Sorry about the cross thread dig. 🙂 I agree with you, a cancellation would be a pointless snub and an opportunity to flatter and negotiate lost.

Posted by: ernielynch

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Well I don't think it is reasonable to expect the UK government to withdraw the invitation but good luck if you think Starmer might.

What worse thing than the current shit show do you think will happen if the UK withdraws the invite?

Hell hath no fury like a Trump scorned, MCTD. Ukraine and tarifs are too important to get get petty with Trump.

Posted by: Edukator

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Hell hath no fury like a Trump scorned, MCTD. Ukraine and tarifs are too important to get get petty with Trump.

He's already ****ed the world with both of those, what more can he really do? 

Apply the same tarifs to the UK as the EU or even China, and withdraw even more support from Ukraine. 

Posted by: Edukator

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Hell hath no fury like a Trump scorned, MCTD. Ukraine and tarifs are too important to get get petty with Trump.

Yes, as much as I'd like to see the RAF blow Trumps plane out of the sky the second it enters UK airspace, and then blame a 'radar glitch', it's not the correct path.

Diplomacy sometimes means holding your tongue. Perpetual delay and subterfuge is the name of the game, here, IMO.

Apply the same tarifs to the UK as the EU or even China, and withdraw even more support from Ukraine. 

And he will do that as he pleases whether his ass is kissed or if he is insulted.

Unless you have some evidence that treating Trump "diplomatically" brings a different response than what he intends to do anyway, I am not seeing any.

Although personally I wouldn't mind if he has his state visit, and Charlie admonishes him for his "disrespectful" appearance, painting his gormless face orange on a state visit would be more disrespectful than a wartime leader not wearing a suit to the white house 😉

Not necessarily, MSP. Lose/lose situations are often born of irrational feelings. The word that came into my head when Trump started trade warring with Canada was "spite". Both sides were clearly going to lose. I've just Googled "Trump spite" and this is the first result:

https://theconversation.com/donald-trumps-foreign-policy-might-be-driven-by-simple-spite-heres-what-to-do-about-it-252099

It's clear Im not alone in my thinking. Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK. 

IMO the error Zelensky has made is not licking Trump's boots enough. He's a bit too proud for his own good and hasn't been flattering Trump's ego enough. Being right or wrong doesn't really matter, arse licking does.

Posted by: Edukator

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He's a bit too proud for his own good and hasn't been flattering Trump's ego enough. Being right or wrong doesn't really matter, arse licking does.

I think I'd rather be accused of being proud than lick Trumps arse.

All Trump wants from Ukraine is the rare earth minerals, and he'll **** over the whole country to achieve that. Licking his arse just delays the inevitable.

What worse thing than the current shit show do you think will happen if the UK withdraws the invite?

I think you might have misunderstood the point I am making. I couldn't give a monkeys if Trump's second state visit invitation to the UK is withdrawn**. I don't however believe that it is reasonable to expect Starmer to do that.

Firstly because there is zero chance that Starmer will, and secondly because his entire strategy for dealing with Trump has been to sycophantically shower him with patronising shite.

Publicly snubbing Trump before the world by withdrawing the invitation would be an even bigger mistake for Starmer than the mistake he made in inviting him. 

Starmer is trying to cultivate this mythical "special relationship" and the "United States is our closest ally" bollocks, personally I would much rather he didn't and instead treated the United States as the dangerous bully it has always been. 

Hopefully the second Trump presidency will be the long overdue wake-up call that the UK (and much o the Western World) has needed. Because of the sheer economic power of the United States global realignments and adjustments will take time. But no country should have that much power and now is the time to deal with the issue.

**Although there is absolutely no reason to unnecessarily antagonise the United States/Trump imo.

IMO the error Zelensky has made is not licking Trump's boots enough.

I strongly dissagree with that.. Trump tried to back Zelensky into a corner, typical bully tactics.

Zelensky was rightly having none of it... how would it have looked back in Ukraine if thier leader was metaphoricaly getting bum raped, and selling out live on TV? it was never an option.

I have a lot of respect for Zelensky, and a lot less than zero respect for the USA at the moment.

Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson. And Trump is due some education.

Posted by: ernielynch

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What worse thing than the current shit show do you think will happen if the UK withdraws the invite?

 

Publicly snubbing Trump before the world by withdrawing the invitation would be an even bigger mistake for Starmer than the mistake he made in inviting him. 

 

I agree... I suspect we both agree on more things than we might let on!

The invite has gone out, and it would be a bad move to simply cancel it... it's a question of damage limitation now, the orange turd shouldn't ever be allowed to set foot in the UK ever again on official business.

So it's a question of how starmer prevents it in the most gentle way possible.

And why the **** did charles send the **** a personal invite? had he been at camillas private supply of cuban cigars and vintage whisky that evening?

Zelensky was rightly having none of it... 

Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson. 

What lesson do you think Zelensky taught Trump?

If we are talking about the ill-fated press conference I don't think that Zelensky needed to lick anyone's boots.

He also didn't need to have a spat with Trump whilst it was being televised to the whole world, that was never going to do Zelensky any favours. Nor should he have taken JD Vance's bait.

Zelensky could have just kept quiet. As indeed had the King of Jordan had at a press conference a while earlier when Trump was talking bollocks about ethnically cleansing Gaza and developing it as a seaside resort. Jordan had already rejected out of hand Trump's plan and there was no point the King having a public row with Trump at the press conference.

And why the * did charles send the * a personal invite? 

Because the Prime Minister had told him to?

Posted by: ernielynch

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And why the * did charles send the * a personal invite? 

Because the Prime Minister had told him to?

Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter? If you sign your name, it's on you.

Charles could have simply told Starmer he didn't want to get involved, and that would have been that.

Posted by: ernielynch

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Zelensky was rightly having none of it... 

Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson. 

What lesson do you think Zelensky taught Trump?

If we are talking about the ill-fated press conference I don't think that Zelensky needed to lick anyone's boots.

He also didn't need to have a spat with Trump whilst it was being televised to the whole world, that was never going to do Zelensky any favours. Nor should he have taken JD Vance's bait.

Zelensky could have just kept quiet.

He was representing his country, you know that sovereignity thing that brexiteers keep banging on about, but not really understanding what it means...? 😉 

Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter? 

Well it's going to blow your mind when you hear how Starmer forced the King to deliver an entire speech.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32816450

Posted by: ernielynch

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Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter? 

Well it's going to blow your mind when you hear how Starmer forced the King to deliver an entire speech.

 

Genuine question - how does that translate into the king sending a personal invite to trump? the king (or queen) just ratifies the goverment du jours' general agenda? Charlie could have just said to starmer...

"do what you want on behalf of the UK as PM? "

There doesn't seem to be any requirement or precident for a personal letter from Charles to Trump. that's optional?

Liz Truss… wrong about pretty much everything.

Theres a good article in the Times today, by William Hague, on the folly of Trump arrogantly and thoughtlessly starting a trade war with China that he can’t possibly win, as he’s now finding out

Trump’s policy on China is a strategic blunder

https://www.thetimes.com/article/b3779da1-4ff9-4260-a648-4efe73d83cc8?shareToken=3fee08a4a8ae9d17831a0c310ecb14ab

Hmmm that deporting some bloke with a court order say they shouldn’t be deported  is still rumbling on.

el-Salvador saying they can’t send him back but would if US facilitate ,US side digging heels in on not bringing him back.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-white-house-el-salvador-kilmar-abrego-garcia-ad338d6b4558a6aba80e8290fd3eece9

Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson. And Trump is due some education.

Going by previous episodes the only lesson he’s learnt is to this time to surround himself with people loyal to him.

I’m not sure Donald’s the learning type tbh, the only lesson to be learnt is by other countries seeing a once proud country  transition into a dictatorship or attempt to.

It's clear Im not alone in my thinking. Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK. 

Cranky Grandfather would probably wake up one day and decide to pop a 200% tarrif on you.

If you look all he wants is attention for his daily TV episode

If you aren’t kissing the ring and swearing loyalty or heaping praise on him then your more than likely to be the next victim of his petty vindictiveness.

BTW that’s apparently the ‘worlds coolest dictator’ twitter/x pictured with trump whose currently hobby is:

Since assuming the presidency on June 1, 2019, Nayib Bukele has tightened his grip on power at the expense of eroding democracy and rule of law. At the beginning of this year, the ruling party secured a majority in the Legislative Assembly allowing it to pass laws without negotiating with the opposition and to completely reshuffle the Constitutional Chamber whose rulings until then had stifled the government. The fruits of this for Bukele came fast, with the new handpicked judges wasting little time green-lighting his re-electoral ambitions albeit in express contravention to the country’s Constitution.

https://directoriolegislativo.org/en/how-nayib-bukele-is-becoming-the-worlds-coolest-dictator/

By all accounts Trump and all the other Trumpettes are obsessed by meeting British Royalty. He apparently has the same reaction to them as he does with dictators - ie he's in awe of them and fawns all over them [eeww]. If I was PM, and I knew that setting up a meeting with one man- who's actual job is just shaking hands with people just like Trump, would make a actual material difference to thousands of people's who's jobs rely on exporting goods to the US, then I would make sure I was doing everything I could to make that happen. 

Posted by: mattyfez

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Posted by: ernielynch

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And why the * did charles send the * a personal invite? 

Because the Prime Minister had told him to?

Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter? If you sign your name, it's on you.

 

Charles could have simply told Starmer he didn't want to get involved, and that would have been that.

 

For someone worrying about international diplomacy and how things look, you might want to start by learning about how things work at home. The last king who told his government what to do regretted it.

Anyway, ignoring Trump yet again blaming Zelensky for provoking that poor Vladimir into destroying Ukraine, nice to see one organisation is (probably rich enough to be) willing to tell him to **** off with his plans for the Turd Reich.

BBC News - Trump freezes $2bn in Harvard funding after university rejects demands

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz01y9gkdm3o

 setting up a meeting with one man- who's actual job is just shaking hands with people just like Trump

And the cunning part is that it will be an unequal handshake. With his fat sausage fingers grabbing Trump's tiny hand the King will have the upper hand. 

BBC News - Trump freezes $2bn in Harvard funding after university rejects demands

Trump voters don't go to Harvard. Like Reform voters don't go to Oxbridge. There are a few reasons for this but the most important one is the most obvious one.

We're on our last day of a city break in Amsterdam with the kids. I think, without fail, every loud, brash, pushy, entitled, inappropriate, overweight arse we have come across in a queue, shop, restaurant, tram etc has been an American. It really is that striking. Makes you think.

I missed off 'graceless'.

Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK. 

He is also quite capable of penalising the UK because he sees weakness that can be exploited.

We're on our last day of a city break in Amsterdam with the kids. I think, without fail, every loud, brash, pushy, entitled, inappropriate, overweight arse we have come across in a queue, shop, restaurant, tram etc has been an American. It really is that striking. Makes you think.

I'm really surprised by that, we spent a week in Amsterdam last Summer and apart from overweight and maybe loud for some none of that applied to any of them. In Paris recently the Americans at Notre Dame morning mass were quiet and discrete, those in Eurostar delightful (and not overweight), the one on the night bus heading for Portugal fit and pleasant. The only people I've shared space with recently that fit your description were Brits on the Flixbus from Birmingham to London - I've just checked the message I sent my wife "smelly passive aggressive". 🙂

We're on our last day of a city break in Amsterdam with the kids. I think, without fail, every loud, brash, pushy, entitled, inappropriate, overweight arse we have come across in a queue, shop, restaurant, tram etc has been an American. It really is that striking. Makes you think.

I've been interrailing down to Sicily via Paris, Rome and Naples, and have found the many Americans I've come across to be polite, curious and respectful.

• I have found a big split with americans.  The loud  brash pushy sterotype is real but not universal 

Not all people "are the same" shocka 

Try being in Cuba surrounded by yanks when they beat us in the world cup. Not a good day.

Posted by: MonkeySpacePilot

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Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK. 

 

He is also quite capable of penalising the UK because he sees weakness that can be exploited.

Exactly. I'd sooner go down fighting. 

Looks like good news for Airbus. That’s going to properly wind up the orange shitgibbon 

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/aircraft-propulsion/china-stops-boeing-airliner-deliveries-report-says

Re. The Harvard thing, not wanting to defend anti-Semitism, but isn't that something that would be protected under their US free speech laws, therefore it's going to end up at the courts with the Trump administration forced to climb down 

Posted by: BoardinBob

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Re. The Harvard thing, not wanting to defend anti-Semitism, but isn't that something that would be protected under their US free speech laws, therefore it's going to end up at the courts with the Trump administration forced to climb down 

Without being drawn into the antisemitism aspect, there's a guy in a high security jail in El Salvador who is not confident Trump will follow directions even from the Supreme Court.

Re. The Harvard thing, not wanting to defend anti-Semitism, but isn't .....

Unless you agree with Donald Trump's definition of anti-semitism you stand little risk of doing that.

According to the linked article among the demands the Trump administration has made on Harvard is :

reporting students to the federal government who are "hostile" to American values

That is a particularly interesting one because based on Trump's behaviour and attacks on American institutions surely any student expressing support for Donald Trump would be guilty of being hostile to America values and should be reported?

I've been interrailing down to Sicily via Paris, Rome and Naples, and have found the many Americans I've come across to be polite, curious and respectful.

Almost 2 wks intermingling with 'mericans in NYC and in Florida. Would guess the majority were Trumpies going by maga hats and attire sporting the orange cult leader. 90% of them were arseholes, loud, brash, self-centered and the eating habits of pigs. I shall not be hurrying back to the US anytime soon. 

Posted by: ernielynch

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According to the linked article among the demands the Trump administration has made on Harvard is :

reporting students to the federal government who are "hostile" to American values

That is a particularly interesting one because based on Trump's behaviour and attacks on American institutions surely any student expressing support for Donald Trump would be guilty of being hostile to America values and should be reported?

Can you imagine the government being flooded with reports of MAGA supporters anti US views? That would be fantastic. And if Trump said something on a campus....

Well, of the four things that got my goat to a greater or lesser extent over the last 3 days, all were septics.

1. The three pudgy, horrible women of ascending size (think grumpy Russian dolls) who squashed, barged and shoved us and various people whilst trying to get out of a no-exit door on the tram (and didn't say thank you when my wife passed her case down to her) - American.

2. The large table in the quite nice restaurant who were louder than the rest of the place combined, most males (adult and kids) baseball-capped whilst eating indoors and yawping. They also ordered a mountain of main courses which the kids left most of (too busy dicking around) before ordering a mountain of desserts. American.

3. The couple who barged into a lift ahead of us (and a disabled guy - also American) in a museum. American.

4. The pair of couples in their 60s who were loudly laughing and joking and generally making an exhibition of themselves outside the Anne Frank house. American.

It is all subjective, obviously. But the US of A scored an impressive 4/4 of people that ground my gears on our break. No one else even made me tut the whole time we were there.

Posted by: Oakwood

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It is all subjective, obviously. But the US of A scored an impressive 4/4 of people that ground my gears on our break. No one else even made me tut the whole time we were there.

Unconscious bias. 

I can usually find four Brits to grind me gears before I get to the office at 8am.

And now a message from our sponsors…………..(or a duplicate post)

Without being drawn into the antisemitism aspect, there's a guy in a high security jail in El Salvador who is not confident Trump will follow directions even from the Supreme Court.

Administrative error.

Supreme Court told them to bring him back,Trump team broadcast it as a win.

And being openly  defiant in not arranging a way to do it.

Disappearing legal residents to a foreign country has happened even without this boo boo.