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But I agree that the contrast between the intelligent, dignified, statesmanlike Obama and these pair of clowns couldn't be more glaring
Perhaps but after the hype, the Obama presidency has been a massive anti-climax
Wasn't that partly because the politics in the US became so polarised the senate/whateveritis rejected just about all of his policies?
But agree there was much hype.
AdamW - MemberWasn't that partly because the politics in the US became so polarised the senate/whateveritis rejected just about all of his policies?
The zika bill is a perfect example of what happens when politicians forget they're supposed to govern. A federal bill that both parties want to pass gets filled with unconnected, politically motivated bullshit specifically so that the democrats will vote against it, so the republicans can say “The Democrats are more focused on protecting the mosquito than they are protecting people”. Absolute disgrace tbh but it's become business as usual to do this sort of damage
[quote=AdamW ]Wasn't that partly because the politics in the US became so polarised the senate/whateveritis rejected just about all of his policies?
But agree there was much hype.
Not that it's a big surprise, but wasn't there some Republican recently quoted saying that it was their party policy to block anything he tried to do without even considering the merits? Politics in the US is properly shit.
What the hell....do 1 million Mexicans really enter US everyday!!!The population of Mexico is less than 130 million..if that number was correct Mexico would be deserted in about 5 months
Yeah - it's the sort of thing that anyone would type and then say "hang on a mo, that makes no sense".
Pigface the namecalling is very Trumpesque. You are Donald and I claim my £5
He really could win.
The 1 million Mexicans remark was made in front of the Mexican President, it's not 1 way traffic is it, they visit for a few days and then return.
I fear Trump is going to win.
I don't think all this fact checkig is making any difference. He's made so many completely contradictory statements already and he's still really close in the polls. His supporters won't listen.
People are living in two separate worlds of information.
The 1 million Mexicans remark was made in front of the Mexican President, it's not 1 way traffic is it, they visit for a few days and then return.
So it's irrelevant, then. Thanks for clarifying.
Jambaliar hypocrisy is your thing, may I remind you of you calling people Remoaners, give my £5 to a charity of your choice.
He really could win
Only in the sense that's he's in the race.
So since my post who watched the debate?
Yawn, personal insults are your style not mine. Your post started with an insultbfor no reason and not in the context of any recent discussion. Re-moaners is a collective term for those that can't accept the result, it was never aimed at anyone here personally.
Mike. Definitely not me, US Presidential debates 30 years ago put me off the format for good. Never watch any (inc Referendum ones) although you can't help to see the news coverage. What was absolutely clear to me is that this one would be really terrible. Polls are tied and Clinton spending huge amounts (record ?) and Trump not so much.
Of course he can win. Focusing on facts and truths is missing the point about why/how he can win.
Jambaliar,
Yawn, personal insults are your style not mine. Your post started with an insultbfor no reason and not in the context of any recent discussion. Re-moaners is a collective term for those that can't accept the result, it was never aimed at anyone here personally
You have told load of lies, fibs, porkies seems a very apt name. I think one of the best was Clinton had had a stroke, when asked you couldn't prove it.
Carry on.
Unfortunately he will as jambaliar has no need for actual fats when he can just make things up and pointing them out to him wont change his mindCarry on.
Saw the debate ...
Trump will win with narrow margin.
Hilary is not even good at debating and relied heavily on her notes.
Hilary wins ... more opportunities for the Far East and quicken the demise of western/US industries.
Trump wins you have the balancing effect on the world.
Donald Trump is a lying racist piece of flotsam and anyone who is stupid enough to defend him is a lowlife piece of ignorant scum too. He is truly odious in that he doesn't care who he insults or steps on to get what he wants. His style is cheap, yet there are far too many idiots who are willing to be sucked in by his bile.
Rant over.
The President is very much a figurehead - he wields no real power whatsoever. He is apparently chosen by the government, but the qualities he is required to display are not those of leadership but those of finely judged outrage. For this reason the President is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it.
captainsasquatch - MemberDonald Trump is a lying racist piece of flotsam and anyone who is stupid enough to defend him is a lowlife piece of ignorant scum too. He is truly odious in that he doesn't care who he insults or steps on to get what he wants. His style is cheap, yet there are far too many idiots who are willing to be sucked in by his bile.
Rant over.
Crikey. I bet there are many Americans that disagree with you.
Well I hope Trump does win. Not because he is a nice bloke but because America is screwed in so many ways and voting for the status quo; i.e. Clinton isn't what they need. The fact that he is an unsophisticated, uncouth man is what is good about him, not what is bad. Ditto Farrage. Its the elite's inability to understand this that is why they deserve to lose. People don't want more elitist, professional, career politicians.
Like it or not, this is what is going on.
Crikey. I bet there are many Americans that disagree with you.
I imagine there are a fair few Ukippers who think they've got a handle on the world too.
They're still thick and wrong. And it's all a bit sad that there are so many that are taken in by this crap.
1.7 million unemployed, 1.7 immigrants? Eh? Eh?
EDIT: Same for the brexiters too, I'm sure there's an intellectual argument where brexit could be discussed at an economic level, but the majority voted on thickfunk arguments and lies.
hh45 - Member
They need Trump.
captainsasquatch - Member
I imagine there are a fair few Ukippers who think they've got a handle on the world too.Crikey. I bet there are many Americans that disagree with you.
They're still thick and wrong. And it's all a bit sad that there are so many that are taken in by this crap.
1.7 million unemployed, 1.7 immigrants? Eh? Eh?
Unfortunately you cannot go on lying to the working class people that a better world is waiting for them. Tried that. Been there. Feel like a donkey. Now try voting for something new ... try a new party.
because America is screwed in so many ways
& the best possible thing they could do is vote in someone whose going to screw it up even further....
Oh yeah, that's a really solid & well though out course of action...
🙄
Crikey. I bet there are many Americans that disagree with you.
Most likely yes, but he does make some valid points...
Trump is a nasty, loud-mouthed, uncouth, odious, border line racist who thinks the truth is a mere inconvenience to be overcome on his way to the top..
He's Farage's wet dream of a drinking partner basically!
Unfortunately you cannot go on lying to the working class people that a better world is waiting for them. Tried that. Been there. Feel like a donkey. Now try voting for something new ... try a new party.
Fair point..
But....
If you think Trump is a man of the people then you are seriously deluded!
People don't want more elitist, professional, career politicians.
Like Farage (and of course Trump is also an unprivileged man of the people)? There is something rather ironic that these are the figureheads of ordinary people rebelling against the elite and wealthy
mrlebowski - Member
& the best possible thing they could do is vote in someone whose going to screw it up even further....Oh yeah, that's a really solid & well though out course of action...
A risk worth taking.
Most likely yes, but he does make some valid points...Trump is a nasty, loud-mouthed, uncouth, odious, border line racist who thinks the truth is a mere inconvenience to be overcome on his way to the top..
He's Farage's wet dream of a drinking partner basically!
He is who he is.
Fair point..But....
If you think Trump is a man of the people then you are seriously deluded!
Who cares if he is the man of the people so long as people feel good about him.
Unfortunately you cannot go on lying to the working class people that a better world is waiting for them. Tried that. Been there. Feel like a donkey. Now try voting for something new ... try a new party.
Absolutely, but neither Trump nor Farage are the answers. And if that's the best reason for voting for them, then god help us and we will get the leaders we deserve.
yep millionaire, son of millionaires convincing the common man they are looking out for them against the millionaire elites 🙄
He is who he is.
Sounds you quite like him.
I for one, could never side with someone like Trump or Farage regardless of how I felt due to their xenophobic tendencies.
But, well, I guess that's the one of the drawbacks of having a conscience..
Who cares if he is the man of the people so long as people feel good about him.
I've stepped in puddles deeper than you if that's how you really feel..
Who cares if he is the man of the people so long as people feel good about him.
Only because they're thick (or poorly educated), now how did that happen? And do we really want to continue on this path?
You know you're in deep shit when the working man starts voting for fascists.
captainsasquatch - Member
Unfortunately you cannot go on lying to the working class people that a better world is waiting for them. Tried that. Been there. Feel like a donkey. Now try voting for something new ... try a new party.
Absolutely, but neither Trump nor Farage are the answers. And if that's the best reason for voting for them, then god help us and we will get the leaders we deserve.
People found their answer and satisfaction by kicking out the previous govt (referring to UK as US has not changed yet with current govt) to the point of enduring whatever future is installed for them.
Because it is that bad ...
You know you're in deep shit when [s]the working man starts voting for fascists[/s] Chewkw's well deserved ban is over....
FTFY.
Then you need to treat them like people.slowoldman - Member
You know you're in deep shit when the working man starts voting for fascists.
Nobeerinthefridge - Member
You know you're in deep shit when[s] the working man starts voting for fascists[/s] Chewkw's well deserved ban is over....
FTFY.
I am cultured now. I even started watching musical ...
Chewkw - can I suggest you consider emigration to North Korea. I suspect you'd quite like the form of government they have there. If nothing else it'd let you "try... something new". Not sure about the voting bit.
Because it is that bad ...
You need to find a more positive way to go about things.
Negative energy by its own definition is not sustaining & is ultimately self-destructive.
+1 Nobeer
Too cold in North Korea. Anyway why keep bullying North Korean? They have not invaded other country ... Why? Ya, the answer is simple coz there are many tea/coffee stirrers trying to break up another country.igm - Member
Chewkw - can I suggest you consider emigration to North Korea. I suspect you'd quite like the form of government they have there. If nothing else it'd let you "try... something new". Not sure about the voting bit.
mrlebowski - Member
Because it is that bad ...
You need to find a more positive way to go about things.Negative energy by its own definition is not sustaining & is ultimately self-destructive.
I am very positive now since Brexit. 
Like Farage (and of course Trump is also an unprivileged man of the people)? There is something rather ironic that these are the figureheads of ordinary people rebelling against the elite and wealthyPeople are fed up with career politicians, ironic as it may be, a rich businessman does generate so much ire.
We have had peak globalisation. for now at least.
I am cultured now. I even started watching musical ...
Cultured? Come back when we can discuss opera.
I am very positive now since Brexit.
Don't make me laugh - you're hero of the oppressed Farage has feked off into the wide blue yonder, Bojo is talking more shite than before & Gove....??
Careful what you wish for Fred.....the Brexit nirvana you yearn for looks more & more difficult to deliver by the day..
Like I said - energy negative destructive it is hmmmmmm!
mrlebowski - Member
He is who he is.
Sounds you quite like him.
I think "like" is a bit too much of a description.
More like letting him balance the game a bit.
Everyone knows my TM value on mankind (ZM) so I am thinking very hard on who can convince me.I've stepped in puddles deeper than you if that's how you really feel..
slowoldman - Member
I am cultured now. I even started watching musical ...
Cultured? Come back when we can discuss opera.
I said cultured Not tortured by opera ...
mrlebowski - Member
I am very positive now since Brexit.
Don't make me laugh - you're hero of the oppressed Farage has feked off into the wide blue yonder, Bojo is talking more shite than before & Gove....??Careful what you wish for Fred.....the Brexit nirvana you yearn for looks more & more difficult to deliver by the day..
Like I said - energy negative destructive it is hmmmmmm!
We need to be united from now on to face the world as we are all ONE now since Brexit.
You and me - Brexit!
We are one! We are happy! No negative energy here just happy Brexit happiness. Let's start new again and make everyone happy. You with me?
no
No
el_boufador - Member
no
Lifer - Member
No
Yes, think positive.
Think working together to make life better for all.
The past is the past.
We now start new.
Saw the debate ...
Trump will win with narrow margin.
Hilary is not even good at debating and relied heavily on her notes.
Which one did you see, I saw a man floundering and going round in circles, getting upset and emotional when he didn't get what he wanted forgetting things he had said and missing the point constantly.
He has energised the people who will items for him and offended the rest. He needs to convince educated women, Hispanic and black voters he will do something for them.
Form the rest of the world point of view the nato and Iran comments were enough to seriously worry me
and something from a new book that was linked to elsewhere looking at history
Hitler expertly exploited — bitterness over the harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles and a yearning for a return to German greatness; unemployment and economic distress amid the worldwide Depression of the early 1930s; and longstanding ethnic prejudices and fears of “foreignization.”
Although he concealed his anti-Semitism beneath a “mask of moderation” when trying to win the support of the socially liberal middle classes, he specialized in big, theatrical rallies staged with spectacular elements borrowed from the circus. Here, “Hitler adapted the content of his speeches to suit the tastes of his lower-middle-class, nationalist-conservative, ethnic-chauvinist and anti-Semitic listeners,” Mr. Ullrich writes. He peppered his speeches with coarse phrases and put-downs of hecklers. Even as he fomented chaos by playing to crowds’ fears and resentments, he offered himself as the visionary leader who could restore law and order.
promising “to lead Germany to a new era of national greatness,” though he was typically vague about his actual plans. He often harked back to a golden age for the country,
of the crowd. Its “purely intellectual level,” Hitler said, “will have to be that of the lowest mental common denominator among the public it is desired to reach.” Because the understanding of the masses “is feeble,” he went on, effective propaganda needed to be boiled down to a few slogans that should be “persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward.”
Equally at home in this tread and the Brexit one I'd say, a play book for ditcators and political campaigners alike
Oh heck. He's back.
Oh shit he is back
All hail the kill file
All hail the kill file
I thought about that, but so many people quote his inane rantings, that I'd find it impossible...
Godwin aside Mikew 😉
Demagoguery is back in fashion, it seems
yep millionaire, son of millionaires convincing the common man they are looking out for them against the millionaire elites
Kimbers I get that but understand that Americans have a different analysis. Firstly making money is not despised in the US, to the contrary its a big positive. Secondly the argument that as a rich person he cannot be "bought" by lobbyists and camoaign donors is a massive vote winner.
In the immediate aftermath of the debate the headlines where all of the CNN poll giving Hillary the win but in the days after much more positive news came out around Trumps performance.
It remains very close
the argument that as a rich person he cannot be "bought" by lobbyists and campaign donors is a massive vote winner.
He's a man who's done lots of shitty things for money, and he doesn't mind anyone else suffering for his gain. Investors, workers, contractors, customers, other people paying their fair share of taxes. And he's proud of it, say's it's smart.
How anyone can believe that he'd turn down any opportunity to line his pockets, regardless of the cost to anyone else, is beyond me.
In the immediate aftermath of the debate the headlines where all of the CNN poll giving Hillary the win but in the days after much more positive news came out around Trumps performance.
Too close to the event, it's hard to go too far from the truth of the performance. Days after, you can start to lie about it.
Wow, he really does seem to have gone a bit mental now:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37521619
I'm not sure exactly what his thinking was - is he expecting to win votes from those groups he's struggling with by going on a hate campaign against somebody from those groups.
I'm not sure exactly what his thinking was - is he expecting to win votes from those groups he's struggling with by going on a hate campaign against somebody from those groups.
And yet there are some who think he's a breath of fresh air. 🙄
God help us all if he wins.
Its his only reason for existing well that and powerHow anyone can believe that he'd turn down any opportunity to line his pockets, regardless of the cost to anyone else, is beyond me.
Perhaps power will be enough?
I am nit sure why you credit him with thinkingI'm not sure exactly what his thinking was
mikewsmith - Member
Which one did you see, ...
The one on BBC.
I thought he has done well by comparison to Clinton. Clinton struggled to deal with so many questions and was completely out of her depth in trade.
To me Clinton needs to retire as her health might not be good. She mentioned that the amount of hour she worked but that should not be an excuse as the job comes with those hours.
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To me Clinton needs to retire as her health might not be good. She mentioned that the amount of hour she worked but that should not be an excuse as the job comes with those hours.
Ah you didn't listen properly then...
She said that when Trump had done all that successfully he could comment on her stamina. She has proved she can do it he hasn't. It was also a question as he had said she didn't look right for a president.
She has proved she can do it he hasn't.
After her stroke/fall-concussion-head bleed-memory loss [delete as appropropiate] she had a "light work load" then she retired from front line politics to prepare her campaign. Health/Benghazi/e-mails. TBH her track record is her biggest weakness.
Jambaliar still with the stroke 🙄
I'm just waiting to see whether we'll get some more unhinged tweets from Trump today at 3am.
I think there was some [url= http://varianceexplained.org/r/trump-tweets/ ]research[/url] done which found that the tweets from his account are of two different kinds: the ones sent during normal office hours often include photos, and tend to be outward-looking and positive.
The ones that are sent in the middle of the night are the real thing, and are much more the Trump we expect.
Don't tweet when you are ripped Donald
So after accusing (falsely) a former Miss World of having a sex tape to try to shame her, guess who had a cameo in a Playboy move? Yup, Donald.
He's a spoiled toddler, really - he's had a lifetime of being able to get whatever he wants by bullying, stamping his foot and whining, and now he's finally facing the idea that that might not be enough to get him the presidency.
Scarily, he might still do it. Then we'd have to see if he really wants to do the unhinged things he's talked about, or whether they were just bluster.
[url= http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/a-neuroscientist-explains-trump-has-a-mental-disorder-that-makes-him-a-dangerous-world-leader/ ]Inside The Donald[/url]
After her stroke/fall-concussion-head bleed-memory loss [delete as appropropiate] she had a "light work load" then she retired from front line politics to prepare her campaign. Health/Benghazi/e-mails. TBH her track record is her biggest weakness.
Well considering that the average man lives 5-6 years less in the US than the average woman maybe it's trump that should be stepping back, he looks close to a heart attack or stroke whenever his brain gets woken up, I reckon in my serious medical experience that he was suffering from the bad cat aids during the debate.
Take a look at the debate Jamby and try and work out which one was more suited to the job.
there isa post match video showing Trump denying he said he was smart not paying federal income tax, a man who forgets what he has said after an hour - dementia right there...
Take a look at the debate Jamby and try and work out which one was more suited to the job.
I think that Jamby says things just to get the rise out of an audience. Perhaps we should find a name for this type of person.
Firstly making money is not despised in the US, to the contrary its a big positive
True, but let's be honest (difficult for you I know) Trump is actually a pretty rubbish businessman!
Secondly the argument that as a rich person he cannot be "bought" by lobbyists and campaign donors is a massive vote winner.
Which is total BS, because anyone with a brain would know that Trump would sell his soul to the highest bidder if he thought it would line his pocket a little more deeply!
Neither candidate is great. It seems slightly astonishing that a nation of 200M people can only scrape together these two for their top job.
[url= http://25logicalreasonstovotefordonaldtrump.com/ ]Reasons to vote for Trump[/url]
her track record is her biggest weakness.
The only reason it is in any way worse than his is that he doesn't have a track record of that sort.
bencooper - MemberSo after accusing (falsely) a former Miss World of having a sex tape to try to shame her, guess who had a cameo in a Playboy move? Yup, Donald.
Similarly she's a disgusting porn star because she's done topless shoots. Like Trump's wife.
He is now having a pop at Hilary because Bill had affairs despite his first marriage ending because HE had an affair
Oh and still saying he cannot release his tax records due to an audit which we all know is just a huge whopping lie
I have no idea what it shows but clearly it is something that he thinks will damage him - not paid tax or not as rich as he claims probably both if i had to guess
and he might not accept the result if he loses it. he is ****ing unhinged and clearly not stable or rational enough to lead a ****ing tombola never mind a country
No doubt they've both got numerous flaws and have behaved imperfectly at times, but for me the bottom line is that Trump is clearly not right in the head.
No doubt they've both got numerous flaws and have behaved imperfectly at times, but for me the bottom line is that Trump is clearly not right in the head.
Which in itself isn't the problem. Those who support his crackpot ideas are.
Yes indeed.
A summary for those that missed the debate:
Um-diddy-diddily... Um-diddly-aye... 😆
Awesome
if you hate them both remember whose the grossest 😆
I already kind of made this point, but inspired by a comment jamba made and a similar point being made by somebody on FB this morning - and having thought it through properly - if I did have a vote I'd feel a lot happier now about making it for Clinton. The thing is, the majority of the criticism for Clinton seems to be about her record whilst in office. Trump has managed somehow to avoid making such mistakes whilst in public office...