[b]Even Democrats think the European welfare state is a joke.[/b]
@jambayla...you made that up for your own spin. Utter tosh and am impossibility to know.
The Clintons are quite clearly money-grabbing and corrupt.
I mean, £3.50 for a simple birthday card FFS!
Clinton had a hand in the growing federal debt crisis, destabilising conflicts, stirring and destroying regions. If not directly indirectly by being part of the Government's that did this. Ontop of all this her husband was impeached. She's also a pretty cold character.
If you are a US citizen you might be forgiven for being sick of all career politicians.
Not a view I endorse but I doubt it's a rosey as well think looking at her America.
Are you really blaming Clinton for Iraq and Afghanistan? And you call other people woefully ignorant.
What has she done in Yemen and Haiti?
Bravo Graham! 😀
First hit on Google. Could you trust her? Maybe Trump might stop buying arms.
WtF has what her husband was charged with an acquitted of got to do with herOntop of all this her husband was impeached
Is it your wifes fault you serially swap bike frames?
What has she done in Yemen and Haiti?
I believe in Haiti she failed to prevent a hurricane and an earthquake, that horrible women.
Hi junkyard. Read my post. I'm looking at different angles. Read.
'Not a view I endorse'.
Is it your wifes fault you serially swap bike frames?
😆
I'm still not seeing anything Hillary had direct control over or anything that any other administration wouldn't have done.
Mind you there's some pretty nasty stuff there, I'd forgotten the summary executions on Foreign Soil. Will Trump stop that? He certainly feels like an isolationist to me. Or will we miss America as world Policeman when they're gone?
Not a view I endorse but I doubt it's a rosey as well think looking at her America
Perhaps when you re read this you will see why i was confused by what you wrote?
Sure she had no influence in countless drone strikes in ****stan? Renditions, Etc. Secretary of State is a powerful position.
Mind you there's some pretty nasty stuff there, I'd forgotten the summary executions on Foreign Soil. Will Trump stop that?
Seems unlikely given he has said he wants to "take out" the families of terrorists.
"Seems unlikely given he has said he wants to "take out" the families of terrorists."
Not sure Trump's Rhetoric is a reliable indication of what he's going to do in office.
so when does he give his first interview as president elect, or do we need to wait till january?
@eden I worked for an American company for 7 years and lived there for 3 (in the relatively liberal NY), throughout my career I have worked closely with Americans and spent another 4 month stint there in 2008. Now I appreciate that is not the whole country but Europe's politics are not supported in the US.
@clod not gleeful at all but it is what it is and we should try and understand why it happened and make sure we make the best of it. I have to say thinking that it was "rich white people" that lead to the victory is particularly dangerous certainly for those on the left here. Rich white people supported Hillary as part of the $1billion she spent, double that of Trump. I also think Trump's victory helps us materially with Brexit not least as it will lead to stronger electoral performance of those in Europe who want to radically reform the EU.
Speak for yourself mate, Obama wanted to put us to the back of the queue.
No, we voted to start a whole new round of trade talks, putting ourselves at the back of the queue.
Not sure Trump's Rhetoric is a reliable indication of what he's going to do in office.
Well true, there is the small matter of international law and war crimes to prevent him
(or as he put it, [i]"fighting a very 'politically correct' war"[/i] 🙄 )
Not sure Trump's Rhetoric is a reliable indication of what he's going to do in office.
Let's hope not!
I also think Trump's victory helps us materially with Brexit not least as it will lead to stronger electoral performance of those in Europe who want to radically reform the EU.
By that do you mean the far-right nationalist parties?
No, we voted to start a whole new round of trade talks, putting ourselves at the back of the queue.
What?
Europe's politics are not supported in the US.
What the hell does that mean? How invested are you in say Latvian politics.
I too have lived in America, and most Americans couldn't place most European countries on the map let alone have in depth knowledge of Euro politics
I also think Trump's victory helps us materially with Brexit not least as it will lead to stronger electoral performance of those in Europe who want to radically reform the EU.
Don't be coy. You mean radically destroy the EU.
Andy - couple of thoughts. Trump out polled Hillary with voters on over $50k, and Hillary with voters on less than $50k. So it is not clear that the working class voted DT.
However the college educated tended to vote for Hillary and those without a degree tended to go for DT.
Read together those are interesting stats. But unclear what they mean.
What is clear is that the biggest indicator of voting was skin colour. Some non-whites voted Trump and of course lots of whites voted Hillary, but in general people voted on race. Perhaps unsurprisingly given the campaign.
Like you, I work for an American company which I visit every so often, and like you I once lived in the states (Virginia since you asked) and the only conclusion I've come to is that they are an odd mixed-up bunch, wonderful and terrible, but away from the coasts generally stuck in the 1950s. And the food, given their wonderful ingredients, is frequently dire.
Ransos just look at the map. The wealthy East and West coasts vote Democrat. Trump won with working class votes, predominantly white but he did better with Hispanics than Romney in 2012 and Black people did not turn out for Clinton in the way they did for Obama.
A majority of wealthier white people voted for Trump. A majority of poorer white people voted for Clinton. Those are facts, not jambafacts.
Talk of a slightly lower Black turnout for Clinton (than for the first African American president - oodathortit!) is a silly diversion.
What?
What did you not understand?
A majority of wealthier white people voted for Trump. A majority of poorer white people voted for Clinton. Those are facts, not jambafacts.
Is voting in the USA not secret then?
This vote you are talking about?
More Brexit rubbish?
> sigh <
If the Leave vote was not a vote to tear up all our trade agreements and start afresh negotiating new ones, then what was it?
A majority of wealthier white people voted for Trump. A majority of poorer white people voted for Clinton. Those are facts, not jambafacts.
Do you have a tyring to back that up? TYT is my only source for US politics (so I may be clueless) but they don't agree with the old white man model you're suggesting, and they're full on card carrying lefty luvies (for Americans).
It depends. Did all other nations buy UK made stuff from the UK or the EU?
What are you on about?
If the Leave vote was not a vote to tear up all our trade agreements and start afresh negotiating new ones, then what was it?
I thoought the leave vote was all about taking back control, which isn't really going to happen, cutting immigration, which ain't going to happen, while pumping £350m a week into the NHS, which was never going to happen, while maintaining trade deals with the whole wide world, including the EU, without contributing a penny, which I'm pretty sure ain't going to happen.
HTH.
What did you not understand?
Existing trade agreements in place, and under negotiation, that we are a part of, while in the EU:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements
We start from scratch once we leave the EU.
That includes USA.
It''ll take "a while", and won't take precedence over other negotiations already well under way, was all that Obama pointed out.
Do you have a tyring to back that up? TYT is my only source for US politics and they don't agree with the old white man model you're suggesting, and they're full on card carrying lefty luvies (for Americans).
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-election/the-average-trump-supporter-is-not-an-economic-loser/article32746323/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/37920950/who-voted-for-trump-not-young-people-say-exit-polls
It''ll take "a while", and won't take precedence over other negotiations already well under way, was all that Obama pointed out
Dave asked him to say that. But... Obama is a has been so it doesn't matter anymore.
9/11 effectively finished off the IRA
Hopefully today the BLM racists have lost traction too.
Unexpected results an' all.
It's interesting that Clinton is currently leading the popular vote by over 200,000. OK, it's only 0.2%, and ultimately meaningless, but it's still a lead.
The other interesting thing is over 6 million people (4.8%) voted for "others". In 2012, this was 1,945,981, in 2008 it was 1,866,981 , and in 2004 it was 1,226,291. This clearly shows the lack of trust in either of the Republican or Democrat candidates.
It would also be interesting to find out how many people only voted for either of the candidates because they were slightly less worse than the alternative. Something really needs to change if this is the best a country of 300 million people can do.
It''ll take "a while", and won't take precedence over other negotiations already well under way, was all that Obama pointed out.
Well, we have "a while" and it is worth pointing out that Obama was pro UK-remaining, so may have overstated the case. Anyway there's a new sheriff in town!
In context, if you were buying goods (under a UK trade agreement) from a scottish company and scotland were to leave the UK, given the same (or better) terms, would you continue to buy from scotland or find a new source in the remainder of the UK?
Just leaving this here. Voting by 18-25 year olds.
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How did that compare to Obama? It's only the swing that's interesting. I doubt old white dudes voted for Obama. The ones that switched to Trump are the interesting ones.
It's interesting that Clinton is currently leading the popular vote by over 200,000. OK, it's only 0.2%, and ultimately meaningless, but it's still a lead.
That's a problem common to the electoral college and to our FPTP. It's absurd that general elections are decided by a handful of states or constituencies.
Molgrips, this is far more telling...
231,556,622 eligible voters46.9% didn't vote
25.6% voted Clinton
25.5% voted Trump
http://www.statisticbrain.com/voting-statistics/
