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<div class="bbp-reply-author">mikewsmith
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I’m going to stick to my original point of Trump hasn’t **** up any whole countries yet. What has Trump done worse than Iraq, Syria or Libya?
So yeah nothing good then…."
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So Trump hasnt done anything as bad as Obama or Bush then?
to be clear I dont like Trump, I dont want to big him up. Obama & Bush did some serious damage in the middle east- damage which will last generations- longer than Trump pulling out of the Paris Agreement.
OK, if that is your point then well done. Yep mistakes were made, Bush made a lot of them WRT Iraq and Afgan conflicts. The legacy was left to others to try and clean up and was part of a sequence of events that has resulted in a lot on instability in the Region. Yes Obama could have done better in the Lybia situation but there were no good answers in there.
If you want to see where Trump has started to screw things up it's jumping in bed with Israel over Jerusalem - and before ninfan starts every other president deferred the decision as a method to appease Israel and not inflame tensions. He has undone good work and firmly set them out as on one side.That decision has already cost lives and will cost more while his son in law stood back and watched.
As mentioned, Trump backing out of the Paris Accord is potentially more damaging globally than anything Obama did, it’s just that the damage is less immediately visible.
Funny, the Paris accord was supposedly far too weak to prevent climate change
The effect may be short lived, however he also enfranchised millions of black Americans that have lived under some of the worst excesses of racism in recent history.
Over 6 years into his presidency:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GVxjH4zlmIg
The Republican party and others prevented him from introducing even modest gun legislation which could have saved hundreds or thousands of lives each year.
And tell me, what do you say when Trump can’t get something he wants through Congress?
Funny, the Paris accord was supposedly far too weak to prevent climate change
It was however a starting point, trump wanted to go back 10 paces.
And what do you say when Trump can’t get something he wants through Congress?
Given he is meant to be part of the party that controls congress and the senate then we call him lots of stuff like stupid, incompetent, inconsistent, unable to negotiate or listen for starters.
Failing to get a bill through on healthcare which they had nearly 8 years to think about was a spectacular failure - everyone wanted to kill it but nobody managed to make it happen.
On racism then yeah he got it all wrong because he didn't fix everything, or could it be there are more institutional racists in America than one man can fix in 8 years, at lest Trump is helping, sorry was that not helping, or helping but not helping but other people might be the problem. I would or wouldn't want to say
And tell me, what do you say when Trump can’t get something he wants through Congress?
If it's something I disagree with then I say **** him! My point was not broad but specifically related to modest gun control which I agree with.
On racism in the police, are you honestly pinning on going race issues in police departments at Obama's door? Be serious. Remember that black people were treated as second class citizens by law until very recent history. The election of Obama to try to break down race issues can only be a small but positive step. Eradicating institutional racism in America is a big tanker to try to turn around. I don't think Trump is the man to even attempt it.
How many people that voted for Trump thought that "making America great" meant telling the leader of Russia that you think your own intelligence agencies are not much use, and saying I believe you Mr Putin.
What positive steps is Trump making on climate change in response then?
ninfan, you do appear to miss point with monotonous regularity and then retort with a half baked whataboutery unrelated to the real issues.
@ninfan - did you miss this post?
Objecting to and fighting ILLEGAL immigration, defending your countries borders and being selective about who you let into your country isn’t racist.
No – so is the following not a racist statement?
“I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes…. Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else… Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks.”
Much more here – https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html
On the wider question, being skeptical of computer modelling that has got everything wrong so far isn’t a bad thing, and there is a strong chain of thought that concentrating resources on developing and strengthening resilience is a better solution than investing in fractional cuts in emissions in the first world while they continue to climb in second and third world nations.
Yes – that’s a good point regarding resilience, but… it wasn’t what I asked. He’s not exactly doing anything, regarding cuts or resilience. So… the original question remains.
And I think I know where the real sexism lies in fact here is a list.
Again, you’re avoiding the question, I wasn’t asking about the Canadian PM, Harvey or anyone else. We can discuss them in their own threads along with their merits – this thread is about Donald Trump.
On racism in the police, are you honestly pinning on going race issues in police departments at Obama’s door? Be serious. Remember that black people were treated as second class citizens by law until very recent history. The election of Obama to try to break down race issues can only be a small but positive step. Eradicating institutional racism in America is a big tanker to try to turn around.
Ah, so there you go, when Obama can’t change it, it’s because it’s a huge issue with deep roots that has been perpetuated by bothe sides of the political sphere (what was it LBJ said? “I'll have them n****rs voting Democratic for the next two hundred years”)
I don’t think Trump is the man to even attempt it.
sounds good to me, better he concentrates on the things that will really improve it - eg. delivering the lowest black unemployment levels on record
@princejohn - the conversation has moved on, get over it, the fact that you didn’t like my answers doesn’t mean I haven’t answered you.... however, since you want to keep banging the drum, your quote is, in the words of Snopes,
it is, at best, a secondhand quote from a private conversation, written down years after the fact, and should be viewed “with some skepticism.”
lets see what someone else (who isn’t a disgruntled employee) reckons about Trump’s relationship with the black community:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J5lcART6TTE
Still no mention of Trump's inability to say the right thing or remember what he is meant to say, telling that isn't it....
I love it, ninfan now bigging up jesse jackson!
even ninfan doesnt seriously believe that Trump is somehow less racist than Obama, or that hes somehow better for the poorest
with income inequality now at its heghest ever levels & the tax cuts he cooked up with the republicans a bonanza for Americas wealthiest
whilst americans without healthcare at up by several million thanks to Trumpcare https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/16/americans-without-health-insurance-up-more-than-3-million-under-trump.html
Still no mention of Trump’s inability to say the right thing or remember what he is meant to say
Heard it all before
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tegb6WbK94g
Yep but Obama once farted so that invalidates it all....
the conversation has moved on, get over it, the fact that you didn’t like my answers doesn’t mean I haven’t answered you
Yes it does -
I thought this was a coherent thread. But as soon as you don't like something you disappear for a few days before coming back with the ramblings that make very little sense.
As great as that video of Jesse Jackson is - I don't see anything there that changes my mind with all the evidence.
Trump sees cheap labour, nothing more.
As you like Snopes, here's some reading about Trump & racism..
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-racist-meme/
So are you going to admit you're happy to turn a blind eye to the racism, sexism etc..?
ninfan
Ah, so there you go, when Obama can’t change it, it’s because it’s a huge issue with deep roots that has been perpetuated by bothe sides of the political sphere (what was it LBJ said? “I’ll have them n****rs voting Democratic for the next two hundred years”)
I said on the last page that as a black president, what Obama did was enfranchise black voters many of whom had suffered excesses of racism until recent times. Many up to then never voted or felt involved in politics. Many may have previously found even registering to vote a difficult process. I made no comment regarding one side being more or less racist than another. Read it back of you can be bothered.
I take some issue with this:
Ah, so there you go, when Obama can’t change it, it’s because it’s a huge issue with deep roots that has been perpetuated by bothe sides of the political sphere (what was it LBJ said? “I’ll have them n****rs voting Democratic for the next two hundred years”)
Agreed that race politics are deeply ingrained in the non-metropolitan US as race seems to influence social class far more than it does here. But I think that the example of LBJ is subjective to some degree. In private, he said some awful things and didn't bother to hide his prejudice. He's also forever associated with the war in Vietnam, on his watch it turned from a local conflict into an event that threatened the very social fabric of 1960s America itself.
That said, the legislation that attempted to redress the inequalities of poverty and racial injustice was a landmark moment. Civil rights, clean(er) air, education and social security bills were passed that helped reduce the 55% of African Americans living in poverty in 1960 to 27% by 1968.
The truth is more nuanced than for me to condemn LBJ outright, as he did at least bring some positive change.
But I'm struggling to see how Trump is capable doing positive things beyond the limits of his own character. Also, at best his vacillations about Russia and Putin in the last 120 hours are at best pure theatre and at worst something extremely sinister.
https://twitter.com/annabelcrabb/status/1020040885260685316
Well at least history is going to be fun in 50 years
But I’m struggling to see how Trump is capable doing positive things beyond the limits of his own character.
His character is limited to 240...
But I’m struggling to see how Trump is capable doing positive things beyond the limits of his own character.
Just look at the long list of other things it was unlikely/impossible for Trump to achieve despite/because of the limits of his own character...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G87UXIH8Lzo
you struggled to envisage that too, right?
So in summary ninfan giving it up to Russia is not really a thing, being clueless isn't a problem and he hasn't actually achieved anything worth writing about as president. As we know the north Korea (not a) deal was less than any other president had got into a deal while conceding more. Next up we have his ex staff in court while his midterms are coming up.
giving it up to Russia is not really a thing,
Oh, sorry, I thought that the US had reset their relationship with Russia a while ago?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4PfhogtdQ
Well I suppose it's an improvement of sorts.
Ninpoop is now reduced to defending the odious creature on his bedroom altar-piece by saying that yes, The Orange Buffoon is a useless racist halfwit but look, other American politicians have been also.
So he agrees. Dump is a waste of oxygen.
Progress!
You have to admit, he's raised whataboutery (amongst other things) to an art form.
Soo......anyway. Back on script. November mid terms? He loses the Senate ( or Congress, I don't know anymore), the Democrats impeach him and he's gone. Yes or no? Discuss.
Senate is stacked in his favour it's mostly blues in red states and safe reds up for grabs (the other half to last time) Congress is wide open.
Some interesting stat
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/
How trumpy people have been, could be good or toxic fornthem
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-generic-ballot-polls/
There is a Senate version though they don't reckon its worth reading too much till after August, their politics podcast is worth a listen too.
It also helps if you understand stats, they had Clinton at 75% to win which is favourite but trump with a 1 in 4 chance.
The upshot is you need 2/3 of the Senate for impeachment sony would need republicans turned. I guess it's over to Mueller for that bit.
Michael Cohen Secretly Taped Trump Discussing Payment to Playboy Model https://nyti.ms/2myEPqA
At least somebody can turn on the tape recorder
Michael Cohen Secretly Taped Trump Discussing Payment to Playboy Model https://nyti.ms/2myEPqA
/a>At least somebody can turn on the tape recorder
Careful there Mike, someone (I don't know who), may well be on shortly to remind us of Democrat sex scandals, I.e. Clinton-Lewinski, and JFK-Norma Jean.
How about the Clinton Lolita Express scandal? That's a good one.
He will be won't he, meanwhile this is fun
At the Aspen Security Forum, NBC’s Andrea Mitchell breaks the news to Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats that the White House has invited Russian President Vladimir Putin to Washington in the fall. Coats also expresses concern about Trump’s solo meeting with Putin in Helsinki.
That's Robert Duvall in that clip.
So a private meeting in Helsinki and now staying at the White House. Does the White House have a honeymoon suite with a secret door?
Guess what happens if you google for images of "idiot"
Wonder how long it will be before
Exxon Mobil is abandoning its joint exploration ventures with the Russian oil company Rosneft, retreating from what was one of its most promising investments until Western sanctions got in the way.
Is rebooted 🙂
I like the fact that his name comes up when you type idiot into google. Despite anything he says that would **** him off.
Nice Twitter post from Stephen King quoting Orwell in 1945:
George Orwell on Trump and Putin, in 1945: “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Not the only person he quoted on that subject:
https://twitter.com/linwood_barclay/status/1019141587023138816
So Cohen made a recording, will that have any impact on Teflon trump
Exxon Mobil is abandoning its joint exploration ventures with the Russian oil company Rosneft, retreating from what was one of its most promising investments until Western sanctions got in the way.
Slightly OT but I'd say the biggest thing in the way of joint ventures with Russian oil companies is the habit of expropriating assets on dodgy grounds, such as the phony environmental charges leading to a big part of Shell's Sakhalin project being grabbed.
"I like the fact that his name comes up when you type idiot into google. Despite anything he says that would **** him off."
The first 3 pages of images are 90% him, that's going to take a lot of data manipulation and 'fake news' baiting to get that changed in the next few years.
If I came anywhere near the idiot in real life I would happily punch him and do the jail time. Pity he's so well protected and our paths will never cross.
I see despite cutting funding for vets Trunp has insisted on a twelve million dollar military parade that 90% of the armed forces disagree with. Not that he has an ego problem, or that any of his family have actually served. That money could do a lot of good somewhere else.
So Cohen made a recording, will that have any impact on Teflon trump
Its interesting that your takeway from that sitiation is that the existence of a tape, and it’s potential contents is the scandal.
rather than the fact that the FBI have had access to what would clearly, and in anyone’s eyes, be legally privileged documents/records of communication between a lawyer and his client.
rather than the fact that the FBI have had access to what would clearly, and in anyone’s eyes, be legally privileged documents/records of communication between a lawyer and his client
The information was reviewed by a judge and sorted to be released. Got a problem with what he might have recorded?
More interesting than Nin's instant, contrary posturing.
The information was reviewed by a judge and sorted to be released. Got a problem with what he might have recorded?
Got a (reliable) source for that claim? The NYT, who broke the whole story, stated:
The recording is potential evidence in the campaign finance investigation, but became tied up in a legal fight over what materials are protected by attorney-client privilege and thus off limits to prosecutors. It is not clear whether a federal judge has ruled on whether prosecutors can listen to the recording.
My apologies thought that process was over. But you k ow what I don't really care as my joke still works that somebody managed to turn on the tape recorder.
In the end there is so much going on that something will stick
"legal privilege" is only relevant in the discussion of past events, not in the facilitation of future events. The tape is a conversation about a future pay off and therefore not legally protected.
My apologies thought that process was over.
So, you were talking bollocks then? #fakenews
