Well, that’s Gulf War 3 started.
This isn't his doing. I'm sure he likes to get his gun off, but the reality surely is much military and political involvement in picking this fight up...?
I wonder if they are going to start on the little fat kid in North Korea next.
I wonder if they are going to start on the little fat kid in North Korea next.
I thought this was the distraction from the complete cock up in handling North Korea.
If Dumbojo wants to unite the country he has got to stay a million miles away f<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">this.</span>
Of course we will invade Iran for a trade deal.
observed rather than experienced
Do you have any faith in Boris not doing a Tony?
Without passing comment on the wisdom of such a strike, it seems pretty brazen of Iran to have a figure like that flying into Baghdad and driving around. I thought the idea of proxy wars is you use the bare minimum of physical resources, not send your most senior officials?
it seems pretty brazen of Iran to have a figure like that flying into Baghdad and driving around.
It's probably misleading to view Iraq as an independent self-contained state now. It is pretty much a vacuum. We hollowed it out with hundreds of thousands of troops, dismantled its military and government, then gave up and more or less pulled out, and left it for the other players in the region to tussle over. That's how ISIS rolled over huge swathes of the country. It's a mess.
History should tell the US that when it is having trouble guaranteeing the safety of its own embassy, then it has already without friends or influence in that place. Assassinating this top official is a desperate move which will not deter the Iranians. If anything it betrays the weakness of the Americans and will encourage the Iranians to continue.
Whilst I'm sure the Iranians are dangerous players in the region, this seems very ill-advised, to put it mildly. The only retaliation option the Iranians have would be offensive, it's just a question of how and where.
Has deflected any attention from North Korea's announcement yesterday that they will restart nuclear and missile testing.
The whole world is being run by dangerous idiots. I'm not sure the old Cold War deterrent of mutual destruction applies any more with all these small minor nut jobs.
Interesting piece on the BBC news site this morning discussing the implications of the world switching from oil to renewables in the next couple of decades. This could just be the appetiser!
Do you have any faith in Boris not doing a Tony?
Even with his Churchill fetish bozo isn't that daft
Really hope not as my brother in law's ship just started a 7 month tour of the gulf
The F-14s taking off will be a great advert for Top Gun 2
Whilst I’m sure the Iranians are dangerous players in the region, this seems very ill-advised, to put it mildly. The only retaliation option the Iranians have would be offensive, it’s just a question of how and where
They're already conducting offensive operations though, and increasingly overtly. Whilst I can't see the US assassinating a senior Iranian general is going to stop that or diffuse tensions (quite the opposite) I don't think it's suddenly going to spark a major conflict or have Iran firing rockets at Israel etc. The Iranians know they'll get a kicking from the US without military support from Russia/China and I can't see that happening in the same way NATO didn't intervene militarily when the Crimea was annexed.
They’re already conducting offensive operations though, and increasingly overtly.
The US have been backing them against a wall since Trump took over, he has always had a hard on for another middle east war, and has been doing everything possible to provoke Iran into doing something they can sell as a reason for war.
The US see's itself as the world policeman, and seems to base that role on a caricature of a racist bullying bigot of a policeman always happy to abuse the power it has.
The F-14s taking off will be a great advert for Top Gun 2
Only the Iranians still have the F14 in service.
Starting WW3 seems a bit of an excessive way for Trump to distract attention from the new impeachment revelations 🙁
Given that Tories want Brexit based on opening the doors to a trade relationship with the US, Bozo will go into a war with the US to cement this deal, if it turns into full scale hostilities in Iraq. It will be a stupid decision because we will be stuck cleaning up the mess afterward, and we'll still get a poor trade deal regardless of any good favour because the UK is smaller than the US and we are poor at trade deals but Johnson doesn't think strategically or critically.
FWIW the Iranian general was an awful person but I'm not celebrating, it's a bad choice in a bad situation.
EDIT Kimbers I hope I'm wrong and you're right, I hope you're brother in law comes home safe.
Without passing comment on the wisdom of such a strike, it seems pretty brazen of Iran to have a figure like that flying into Baghdad and driving around. I thought the idea of proxy wars is you use the bare minimum of physical resources, not send your most senior officials?
Iran and US have had a de facto truce for some time, on the basis that they've both been fighting IS.
he has always had a hard on for another middle east war, and has been doing everything possible to provoke Iran into doing something they can sell as a reason for war.
Not sure that's true either, at least not his public position. He been very much for pulling US troops out of the ME, including his cluster-**** in northern Syria recently. Obviously he also realises playing the strongman panders well to his core supporters so I can certainly see him launching cruise missiles and drone strikes into Iran but not a full on war. I'd also be surprised if he initiated much of a manned air campaign in Iran - they have (or claim to have anyway) a pretty modern and sophisticated air defence capability (but I think it's largely untested, unless the Israeli's have probed it). Captured US pilots isn't something he wants on his watch.
#TRUMP2020
The US see’s itself as the world policeman
You know how right wing govts on a shoogly peg at home traditionally like to have a foreign war to stiffen up patriotic resolve.
Wonder how good a trade deal we'll get if we send our lads in?
And how long before there's talk of conscription to suck up all those unemployed?
When Trump calls, let's hope Boris has as much backbone as Harold Wilson had.
Should we be worried that Iran has been having joint naval exercises with China and Russia very recently? It may have some very big friends too.
Not sure China and Russia would directly involve themselves in a direct conflict but they will give tech support and the Russian S-400 air defence missile system is not to be sneezed at. I'm sure the Russians would love to gather more radar intel on the F-35 and B2 aircraft.
In some respects the Iranians have been sniping at the Americans for a long time (since before Trump increased sanctions over the nuclear deal). I wonder if Trump was still smarting from the loss of the expensive drone last year and this Terrorist General arriving in Iraq to plot the deaths of more Americans was too good an opportunity to resist. Will giving Iran a bloody nose stop them? possibly, it may give them pause and make them realise that they have pushed the Americans (and especially their President) one too many times and that the gloves are off now.
Will it end well, NO.
I can see if there is any escalation from the Iranian side a joint Israeli and US missile and drone strike on the Iranian air defences followed by air strikes on the nuclear facilities using bunker destroyers for the under the mountain sites in conjunction with a massive cyber attack on them.
it may give them pause and make them realise that they have pushed the Americans (and especially their President) one too many times and that the gloves are off now.
I really dont see how it will give them any kind of pause
they literally have to respond in some kind of fashion now, the head of their army has just been assassinated, Iran has been biging itself up as a strongman for domestic audiences & this pushes their narrative that America & the west are out to get them, it will be destabilising for the Iranians immediately but they will have to respond in earnest, Trump must know all this so I do wonder if it is a deliberate provocation
meanwhile Korea were threateninga new round of nuclear missile tests any day
kimbers
...they literally have to respond in some kind of fashion now, the head of their army has just been assassinated..
Aye, it's one thing to do in Osama Bin Laden, but it's another to publicly assassinate the leader of a nation state's defence.
It certainly has raised the stakes.
The obvious response is to return the favour on the most senior USA military commander that can they can access.
All the little tinpot populists get to a point where they can't resist a little war to distract from the realities of life on the domestic front. In trying to erase Obama's legacies, Trump can't resist the temptation to go one better - even John Bolton must be spitting out his cornflakes at the sight of his former boss taking the hardest line possible with Iran.
It'll be a test for Johnson given that the response from the EU is likely to be measured and sane. Johnson will know that Blair and Fatcha both won elections after committing Britain to regional conflicts that could have been avoided.
It’ll be
a testan opportunity for Johnson
FTFY
the iranians will hit saudi/region oil again. (good for russia)
I wouldn't want to work in a M.E. US embassy at the moment....
I foresee more deaths ahead ... on both sides.
I suggest if you have no business in the middle east don't go there coz you will be the target.
I just feel sorry for all those involved in the proxy wars.
Rump, putine, etc. Calling the shots from thier safe havens.
dragging all sorts in interesting genie to uncork... we only need the Germans unleashed now :/
You can't beat a little government sponsored assassination in the name of peace to distract from the upcoming impeachment trial in the senate.
Clinton did the same thing
I would disagree, the democrats are yet to push the process forward. Imho they messed up the impeachment, the process was sloppy and rushed, considering the republican dominated senate.
The process now goes to the senate where it will probably be rejected.
If this is a move in order to secure reelection, it is probably more to do with improving his image as the commander in chief and satisfying the military complex.
Timing and ethics aside, the Terrorist General was a fantastic planner and good leader, responsible for organising/sponsoring/motivating many terrorist groups in the region causing a great many deaths of US and Ally soldiers across the area. His removal with what appears to be the ninja/bladed hellfire may well set back Iranian plans, will his replacement be as good? I doubt it. Though he has probably left plans for what to do should he suffer "an accident".
Much as I detest Trump, he will get re-elected, to the American people (rightly or wrongly) he has improved the economy, got more African Americans in employment, taken the trade fight to China and put America first.
the iranians will hit saudi/region oil again
Yeah, mining the Strait of Hormuz seems the most likely short-term action they'll take. I doubt they'd risk another missile attack on Saudi refineries, I would have thought there was more satellite & drone monitoring of Iran now (although maybe it's not technically possible yet to detect & track short range missile launches over a wide area).
Imho they messed up the impeachment, the process was sloppy and rushed, considering the republican dominated senate
It's always going to be a Republican controlled Senate (until the 2020 election at least) so they started impeachment proceedings as soon as they had something they were confident would stick (general incompetence wouldn't have been enough) so it at least got as far as the Senate. Whether impeaching at all was the right move (knowing it would always get defeated in the Senate) is hard to say but I can also see if they didn't impeach and still lost the 2020 election that the Democrats would have got a lot of flak.
His removal with what appears to be the ninja/bladed hellfire may well set back Iranian plans, will his replacement be as good? I doubt it. Though he has probably left plans for what to do should he suffer “an accident”.
This belief that 1 man is behind all of the USAs problems with Iran seems naive, just because Iranian propaganda sold him as the master strategist.
Iranian army is huge and they have experienced generals who have been fighting insurgency for the last 30+ years for
The militias & proxies will be more determined than ever. At best this is a short term set back, but an increase in violence seems the only outcome
Any chance of bringing Iran back to the negotiating table has gone now
That Trump has also threatened to blow up Iranian cultural & religious sites shows how foolish he is being right now.
The scale of the crowds in mourning alone ought to be enough to make him stop & think
The scale of the crowds in mourning alone ought to be enough to make him stop & think
Sadly they won't - he'll just be congratulating himself that he got more people attending his inauguration address than that brown dude got at his funeral.
Didn't Clinton bomb a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan when he was being impeached? Same shit, different President.
I can't believe this thread isn't at the top, what is wrong with us? I'm fairly certain there are a few bots on here as well. LOOK. A BUNNY. OVER THERE, A BUNNY! Works with the kids, works with the rest of the world it seems. God help us.
Trump to White House Reporters.
“They’re allowed to kill our people. They’re allowed to torture and maim our people. They’re allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people,” President Trump said Sunday aboard Air Force One. “And we’re not allowed to touch their cultural site? It doesn’t work that way.”
Surely there are people in Trumps inner circle that can't let him go through with this. Targeting sites of cultural significance which may be heavily populated by civilians. He refers to Irans supply of weapons to Iraqi forces fighting against the US troops in Iraq. We know US supplied weapons are often put to dubious use. Does dirty tactics in the theatre of war really require Trump to threaten this?
The really scary thing about all this is that I bet the red-neck shit-kickers who elected him are absolutely lapping this up. Killing 'bad guys' with missiles? Brilliant! Whats not to like?
While the less unhinged like us, with our snowflake whining/liberal sensibilities*, look on Trump in horror, all this is is just ensuring his second term as he plays to his gun-toting, racist base. I think he's going to walk it.
* delete as appropriate
How to make friends and influence people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51003159
It really is about time european leaders started publicly denouncing the idiot, US bully boy tactics are destabilising the world and endangering us all.
good article here about the 'Dr Evil fantasy'
https://www.ft.com/content/741a21cc-3062-11ea-a329-0bcf87a328f2
Surely there are people in Trumps inner circle that can’t let him go through with this.
It's a demonstration of how an appalling and dangerous culture in government gradually gets normalised. You get long-term staff at the Department of Defense with a president who is openly advocating a war crime (bombing cultural sites), but even then, they aren't prepared to criticise him publicly, or resign. And obviously the GOP is a lost cause morally, with even previously moderate senators going all-in behind him.
At the risk of going all Godwin, people often wonder how seemingly good and balanced Germans fell in behind extreme and horrifying policies in the 1930s and 1940s. This process is how it starts.
I can’t believe this thread isn’t at the top, what is wrong with us?
The normalisation is working on us too. Some of the stuff which had us ranting for days a couple of years ago seems trivial compared with the shit he's getting up to now.
My son has just informed me there'e a $80million bounty on Trump's head from the Iranians. I didn't know they'd started up a Crowdfunding page. Where do I donate my £10 quid?
Actually, here's a thought. As the orange one has only one love, the dollar, how much would we have to raise to make him just eff off forever? A couple of billion? More?
Trump will never stop and think, he's a knee jerk reactionary. He doesn't plan. Iran need to stop and think and play the waiting game (for a new US President) but sadly I don't think they will. Any military response on their part (which they are promising) will result in all manner of hell raining down upon them.
This will not end well for anyone in the area. Iran have some very good antiship missiles and seem to have got swarming drone attacks sorted, Allah help them if they try for one of the US Carriers.
and Kimbers I will respectfully disagree, the TG, from what I've read and watched seemed to be a cut above your regular Iranian General in terms of leadership and organisational flair.
If he's having to threaten Iraq with sanctions to make them let the US stay, it shows just how weak their position in Iraq has become.
I imagine that this won't go unnoticed around the world.
Not just weak, verging on shambolic
It's like they put Chris grayling in charge
https://twitter.com/bealejonathan/status/1214291610466471938?s=20
I am not so sure another foreign war to protect one lot of brown people (not Americans!) from another lot of brown people (also not Americans!) will play that well with Trump's fan base. He campaigned on stopping their soldiers coming back in body bags, defending places most of his fans can't even spell, let alone locate on a map. I think he may have over estimated his own popularity here finally at last. Live by the tweet, die by the tweet etc.
That memo has no signature - probably fake.
Well, the bombing of cultural and non-military sites is a crime under the international law of armed conflict. People being asked to carry this order out would be entitled to refuse to obey it and the person issuing the order could be arrested and tried under the same laws.
No wonder the military rolled back on that one.
It’s also a crime under US law.
Well I think he should have got the Nobel peace prize for his contribution to world stability.
**** me drunk!!!
Well, this took a disturbing twist.
WhatsApp messaging between two Trump/Giuliani associates about the then US Ambassador to Ukraine. Which appear to show them keeping track of her movements somehow, and monitoring her personal security... purpose unknown.
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1217215352754577409
Yonanovitch, for context, was suddenly recalled to Washington and variously badmouthed by Trump/GOP for disloyalty, or more likely, getting in the way of his efforts to get dirt on Biden.
Since Lev Parnas, one half of that exchange, was nicked trying to board a flight out of the US and is reportedly cooperating, things could get interesting. The messages are part of a cache of texts etc which are now in the hands of the US authorities.
The other half of the exchange, Robert Hyde, who is running for Congress for the Republicans, apparently got arrested at Mar-a-Lago last year claiming that a hitman was out to get him. Bizarre and somewhat sinister stuff...
I guess that could be out of context, but at face value it does sound very sinister.
You'd think that internet conspiracy theorists would be all over this stuff, but in my experience the majority of them have fallen for the "Trump vs the media/elite/liberals/world" nonsense and are largely on his side. 🙄
It feels more like the Home Alone burglars than something out of Bourne. But still, it shows the kind of ****ery that surrounds the Trump circus.
But then again, officials clearly thought something was happening that meant she had to leave in a hurry a couple of weeks later.
Shortly before being recalled to Washington, Yovanovitch said she received two late-night calls on April 24 and 25 from Director General of the Foreign Service Carol Perez.
“She said that she was giving me a heads-up, that things were going wrong, kind of ... off the track.” Hours later, at 1 a.m. in Ukraine, Perez called again to say “that I needed to be on the next plane home to Washington. And I was like, what? What happened? And she said, I don’t know, but this is about your security. You need to come home immediately.”
It is utterly jaw-dropping to even consider the possibility that people in Trump's orbit - the links between Parnas and Giuliani are well established - were apparently talking about getting a 'price' for something involving a serving US ambassador, tracking her movements and perhaps her devices, and that person had to be recalled for her own safety a matter of days later.
Even Fox is laughing at the state of him now.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1222335747992248322
John Bolton's book & possible testimony putting even staunch trump fan republican senators in a bind.
He'll still get away with it
Completely coincidentally he's released his mid East peace plan 2years late with Netenyahu (also coincidentally facing 3 fraud trials)
And the obviously qualified kushner* 😜 who never bothered talking to Palestinians when he came up with his plan to permanently anexe east Jerusalem & settlements , got all ranty when the Palestinians didn't bite his hand off ...
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1222267596210343940?s=19
*Kushners testimony to the FBI being blocked from release by Whitehouse at the moment too
Even God hates the border wall:
"A section of Donald Trump’s much-vaunted border wall between the United States and Mexico has blown over in high winds, US border patrol officers have been reported as saying."
DIrrrty cops....Baaaad people..........
The orange clag-nugget is speaking live broadcasting his acquittal speech, he's a very humble and contrite man aint he?.
he’s a very humble and contrite man aint he?.
Even Bill managed a bit of faux contrition in similar circumstances.
https://twitter.com/sbg1/status/1225456759113994240
Now Bonespurs kicks out a true military name.
He truly is odious and now feels massively empowered.
I'm convinced that he won't release his tax returns because they will show his 'wealth' is nothing like what he claims; ooh Donny, the shame.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51408704
That's what happens when you tell the truth against trumps lies.
Heading up to Ayrshire t'morn to see a mates new electric KTM motocross bike and have a shot if i can get on to it, he stays just of the A719 nr to Trumps Turnberry golf course and i imagine the course has some decent kickers and bunkers to play around in, D'ya suppose i could write "Trump is a ****" on the fairway with the back wheel?
Firing all the Whitehouse staff who dared to tell the truth is truly grim.
History will not judge this kindly
Don't let me stop you!
I can’t wait for the time when the truth about him emerges; he will be dreading the moment when his presidency ends as that will be when the lawsuits come piling in.
As for his brats - elder sons are vermin; eldest daughter is vacuous airhead with useless husband from criminal family.
When he goes...their platform disappears, his ‘brand’ disappears, they disappear; the world will be a better place.
Remember Robert Maxwell? Killed himself when the net was closing. Bonespurs will either do the same thing or finish in jail; SDNY have it in for him and have been preparing since the last election. He has burned too many people; they want revenge - and will have it.
His claimed tax breaks? If you’re truly wealthy - yup, good for me; for anyone else - you’ve been shafted.
As for the tradition of presidential libraries - Trump’s will likely comprise the collected thoughts of Ronald McDonald and a treatise on how to shaft contractors.
Just when you think he can't outdo himself he always manages to.
Christ, they really will elect him again I think, too...
Poop - I think we'll endure another four years of the odious orange buffoon.
There is an upside - he will piss, humiliate and insult even more people who will then want revenge; it allows more time for SDNY and other attorney's offices to build their cases against him.
I don't which I would prefer:
- Bonespurs kills himself so....justice denied
or
- sued repeatedly; tax returns publicised; jailed; death by a thousand cuts.
In fact, I do know - it's the latter.
Of course his audience will re-elect him, he can lie and contradict himself in the same sentance and his acolytes love him, they know he lies and just don’t care that they are lied to.
The latest Making Sense podcast with Sam Harris talking about trump derangement syndrome is worth a listen
And another one.
It's shaping up like the night of the long knives - either Hitler or Macmillan; take your pick.
https://nypost.com/2020/02/07/trump-ousts-gordon-sondland-hours-after-firing-alexander-vindman/?utm_source=maropost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news_alert&utm_content=20200207&tpcc=nypbreaking&mpweb=755-8594923-719098922
He will get away with it, his family will go from strength to strength outside the constant public gaze. This is the way of the world, the rich and powerful have always acted this way, it is just his particular narcissism has exposed it more than ever. From medieval knights through the titans of the industrial revolution to new tech gods, they are all the same.
Bloomberg is even buying the democratic nomination now to ensure nothing changes.
He will get away with it, his family will go from strength to strength outside the constant public gaze. This is the way of the world, the rich and powerful have always acted this way, it is just his particular narcissism has exposed it more than ever.
Regardless of whether his rich powerful etc if he cannot help make people earn a living he is out.
The BBC Reality Check on his state of the nation speech was depressing reading. Looks like a lot of the positive numbers he quoted are building on stuff started under Obama, but no one wants to hear that
fake tan or fake news, the orange one is not happy!
fake tan or fake news
exploding cigar
The comments on the boingboing article about that dTrumph photo are excellent...
https://boingboing.net/2020/02/08/why-has-this-photo-of-trump-go.html
Regardless of whether his rich powerful etc if he cannot help make people earn a living he is out.
Or he just needs to convince enough of them that the reason they don't have a job is immigration or China and that he's the only guy with those at the top of the agenda. Kinda like the Tories convinced the unemployed and low paid in this country it was all immigration & the EU's fault (and definitely not poorly thought out austerity measures...).
Politics is in a race to the bottom, you can even tell blatant lies these days, as long as you keep denying it or ignoring it when challenged and focus on spewing out more false narratives you'll probably win elections.
Read and despair.
He really is a shit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51449739