Brads
NOpe - I am quoting the politicians who state quite clearly the position which is the use of shock collars breaks the law. Very clear. Also the opinion of the Kennel club
So clear that even shooting UK think that they are illegal to use
All quoted to you.
<blockquoteI have a Karelian Bear Dog from Finland that are used for hunting deer, boar and bears.
He stays on a lead 99% of the time as no command’s/shouts/whistle/promises of cheese get through that prey drive when it cuts in.
This – you have bought a hound / hunting dog, that has been bred for many generations to chase and hunt things
He was a rescue and thought to be a Heinz57/unknown. A subsequent DNA test in our ownership showed he is a 100% KBD. Super intelligent has learnt ~50+ words/ hand signal's - left, right, on, under, jump, go round, here, wait, cross etc so is fine on a long lead when out walking but is off like a bullet if deer are in range.
Really is an unsuitable dog for the UK - perfect for Finland where they are used for hunting or bear protection in US and Japan national parks. I only know of one other in the UK so not really an issue.
I would hate to 'shock' him to try and prevent him from wanting to do what he has been singularly bred to do so he stays on a (long) lead apart from in a few local benign parks at dusk when it's quiet or Formby beach pre Covid.
put simply, when deer run away, you (and the dog come to that) really really can’t catch them.
OK I was confused by
Best thing is to just go home, they find their way back eventually
which I read as going home without the dog, hence leaving the dog to run around with the deer. Still, if as you say a dog can't catch a deer, there's nothing to be concerned about is there?
NOpe – I am quoting the politicians who state quite clearly the position which is the use of shock collars breaks the law. Very clear. Also the opinion of the Kennel club
So clear that even shooting UK think that they are illegal to use
All quoted to you.
I disagree entirely with the use of shock collars and see them as entirely unnecessary. However thankfully politicians opinion doesn't make law, legislation does. If their use breaks other laws then the courts will decide, but as there seems to be continuing moves to ban them properly it's fairly obvious that the current legislation doesn't effectively ban their use.
Qualified dog trainer here. I had the same issue with my dog about 7 years ago - high prey drive dog that loved to chase cattle, deer, horses, sheep and small prey. Led me down this path.
You need to build up the recall away from any distractions - get it super solid and then add in some distance (how far away you are from the dog), then add in distractions (dogs, picnics, people, movement). Practice it on every walk. It's a slow but really rewarding process.
Make your time with the dog super fun so he wants to hang around. Every walk you can spend 5-10mins of the walk building this up - do this every day and you'll have a super attentive dog that listens and reacts to you. As Mildred said (who gave some of the best advice on this thread) establish what aspects of the predatory sequence you dog loves to do (e.g. chase) and give them an appropriate outlet for this - plus you can use this to enhance your recall training.
If he strays too far from you call him back - don't let him rehearse chasing stuff or wandering too far from you. The more he rehearses this the more he'll do it. Best to nip it in the bud.
Until your recall is rock solid, avoid any areas where there are distractions (animals or smells of animals) and if you have to go in these areas keep him on a long line / lead. Once his recall is rock solid and you feel confident you can let him have some freedom and use either the long line left to drag behind him (On a harness - not a collar) or a drag line which is a shorter lead with no handle that give you a chance to catch him should you need to.
Unless you want to ruin your dog and make things much worse don't bollock him when he returns; don't try to dominate him; don't listen to Caeser Milan or similar trainers; DON'T use a shock collar (whether legal or illegal - they are such a bad device and have been found to cause so many problems).
I'd suggest finding a good trainer in your area. Give them a call and discuss with them your problem and get a feel for how you might be able to work with them. https://www.imdt.uk.com/find-a-qualified-imdt-trainer
However thankfully politicians opinion doesn’t make law, legislation does. If their use breaks other laws then the courts will decide,
Its not just a politicians opinion. Its the minister in charge clarifying the guidance about what is cruelty to animals and stating clearly that the use of a shock collar is illegal under the act. The guidence becomes part of the law.
its very clear, its in black and white, its accepted they are illegal by every major player - its only Brads who thinks he knows better
yes primary legislation would be better. It will come.
Its not just a politicians opinion. Its the minister in charge clarifying the guidance about what is cruelty to animals and stating clearly that the use of a shock collar is illegal under the act. The guidence becomes part of the law.
That's just a ministers opinion. As we've repeated seen with the Corona virus guidance, it often has no basis in law, and is used to distract from the fact that they've avoided legislating appropriately.
its very clear, its in black and white, its accepted they are illegal by every major player – its only Brads who thinks he knows better
yes primary legislation would be better. It will come.
Read what the actual guidance says. https://www.gov.scot/publications/guidance-dog-training-aids/ It is sadly only advisory. Without it being explicitly legislated against, and with no apparent case law to suggest otherwise shock collars are legal to own and use in Scotland and England. There doesn't appear to have been a single prosecution for their use on a dog. The Welsh appear to have done it properly.
I have and linked to it. It does not work in the way you think. the guidence becomes part of the law tho can be overturned by precedent - what it means is that the use of a shock collar is considered cruel treatment under the act
NOw the kennel club agree its illegal in Scotland, shooting UK agree, the government says it is.
to make a defense ( and you could try) you would have to show that it was not cruel. Just using a collar is assumed now to be cruel. Thats the effect the guidence has Ie the use of shock collars breaches the act.
Get a rope washing line or two so youve got some length, attach to collar, let drag, take for a walk, once he gets to the limit and you call him back put your foot on it if he doesnt come.
You are wrong in so many ways but that's fine, you're allowed your opinion.
It states no such thing and guidance is not law and does not become law.
Use of a collar is not assumed to be unnecessary cruelty. Your simply making that up to suit your opinion.
If you don't like them that's fine. But don't manufacture fake facts about laws that don't exist. Or opinions of bodies that are not what you are telling people
Absolutely my final word on this one.