CitizenSmiff/dadoronron70, possibly concrete proof that keeping an open mind just means that others come along and fill it with rubbish.
Or else kaesae has surfaced from whatever subterranean hideaway he's been lurking in.
I do like a sense of purpose when I go pootling. Makes a change from seeking out ancient and buried monuments and chatting to grey wethers.
You do that too? I just worry that one day I'll get an answer...
[url= http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/11758366016_9df3efe2cd_o.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/countzero1/11758366016/ ]Grey Wethers, Fyfield Down.[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/countzero1/ ]CountZero1[/url], on Flickr
Grey wethers, refusing to talk about who's making the bloody crop circles!
See also, "god did it."
4200 religions and counting.
They cant [i]all[/i] be right.
i'm right and you're wrong cos i'm the best. ron, can you not see how daft that was?Oh dear, here we go
*hatches plan to hide behind rocks on Fyfield Down to "talk" to mtbers
Does that mean what you believe is more credible than what a former defence minister of a G8 country has witnessed and researched?
Basing my answer purely on what he believes.
Yes.
The only thing I'm claiming is that we are a very extremely primitive species,
Compared to what exactly ???
Genuine question.
Compared to what exactly ???
Compared to a species that travel vast intergalactic distances in order to burn the rectums out of cattle.
The only thing I'm claiming is that we are a very extremely primitive species,
We may be, yes, but there are certain incontrovertible things that we know that are always going to be the case regardless of what planet you are on. Atomic weight of helium is always going to be four. And building spaceships is always going to require advanced civilizations. And civilisations will always need certain things, etc.
I'm not saying that it's not aliens btw, or that I know what it is. I just think that the alien explanation is extremely unlikely.
[quote=Cougar]It's entirely possible that he's seen extra-terrestrial spacecraft. He may also have seen comets
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or
[img] 
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?
[quote=molgrips]Atomic weight of helium is always going to be four.
Unless it's three - and it's certainly possible there are planets where that is more abundant than 4. I'll accept that it's reasonable to ignore the other isotopes with half-lives <1s. 😉
You know what I meant smartarse 🙂
piemonster - Member
*hatches plan to hide behind rocks on Fyfield Down to "talk" to mtbers
😆
Lots of rocks to choose from.
The only thing I'm claiming is that we are a very extremely primitive species,
I know i'm the 3rd person to ask this, but no answer yet so I will go again...
Compared to what exactly? the human brain is regarded as the most complex structure in the known universe, we understand comparatively more about black holes and galaxies than our own brains.... So how are we so primitive?
I am quite prepared to accept / believe that there is intelligent life out there somewhere, afterall the universe is just soooo huge, that it's bound to support life of some sort somewhere.
As to whether they have visited us, I'm yet to be convinced. I'm happy to be convinced if someone can actually produce some compelling [b]evidence[/b] to prove it. This evidence would need to be convincing though, not just something that someone has written because that's what they think / believe has happened. As has been said already in this post, it's all very well someone saying 'prove it wasn't aliens that made crop circles', but that's a piss easy thing to say when you [b]can't[/b] prove it was aliens either.
What we do know is that at least some crop circles are made by humans for reasons of entertainmemnt, probably pretty much all of them are as far as I can work out. Hell, even advertisers have engaged the services of such people on occasion.
As for saying we should believe because such & such a person ssays we should, because they used to be a politician or something, well that's just silly. David Icke used to be a well respoected sports commentator, but he's got some pretty extreme views now and doesn't command the respect he once did. As for trusting an ex politician??? I think we know that politicians can't always be trusted.
Anyway, show us some [b]proper[/b] evidence of aliens making crop circles please
There was a crop circle maker on More4 talking to Tony Robinson last night, he was a bit funny looking. But I put it down to him having had a beer.
Apparently his best effort was a thatched design.
My great uncle used to work in the air force and tells me he's seen a lot of crazy and bizarre things in the sky that he ' rationally ' couldn't explain, ufo's being some of them
my dad used to be an astronaut and saw UFOs, they must be true
my brother was a chef in the RAF and saw a UFO once, so they must be true
my mate used to work in a boy band and started seeing UFOs*, so they must be true
this has a name - 'appeal to authority' fallacy.
incidentally, funny how you never hear that military pilot story repeated about commercial pilots, or balloonists.
* ok, so I'm not mates with robbie williams, but he did start seeing UFOs, nothing to do with the massive cocaine habit you understand
Most likely explanation for a number of UFO cases.
incidentally, funny how you never hear that military pilot story repeated about commercial pilots
Actually you do, there are a few famous incidents in UFO lore. Only flaw in an otherwise excellent post 🙂
Remember that crop circle made in California a few days ago?
Well it seems its message is readable, it was just written in braille! And it seems to say '192' a lot.
Obviously the aliens lamenting the privatisation of the old direct enquiries are also cycling fanswww.youtube.com/watch?v=LVDrjAFibHI
http://www.ufosightingsdaily.com/2014/01/update-on-crop-circle-in-salinas.html
Have a good weekend y'all
Now revealed to be a marketing stunt for the new Nvidia processor, which has 192 cores.
[url= http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/06/nvidia_uncloaks_tegra_k1_graphics_monster_for_mobile_and_automotive/ ]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/06/nvidia_uncloaks_tegra_k1_graphics_monster_for_mobile_and_automotive/[/url]
[url= http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/05/nvidia-crop-circle/ ]http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/05/nvidia-crop-circle/[/url]
Actually you do, there are a few famous incidents in UFO lore.
Self inflicted fail! Dammit!
I know 4 airline pilots, 2 work for Virgin and the other two random "other" airlines.
So sitting sipping beers on the Club decking a couple of years ago in summer when all 4 were together, I got the conversaton going.."so UFO's, seen any?"
3 of the 4 said Yes.
2 reported it.
So - they've seen [i]Unidentified[/i] Flying Objects. This does not imply aliens.
Absolutely, interestingly the 2 that didn't report what they saw were told not to by the Airlines they worked for.
I have watched masses of stuff and read soo many books on this topic that I'm a bit blase' about whether there are or there are not now aliens, shame really cos' if you'd asked me 10 years ago I'da said an emphatic Yes to the existance, now I believe aliens are either here already or like us haven't developed travel fast or efficient enough for them to come here.. or they are here and just messing with our minds.
Fun though, while it lasts 😉
So... secret military aircraft is the most plausible possibility for the airline pilot UFOs?
After all we have concrete proof of governments keeping very high performance aircraft top secret in the past.
interestingly the 2 that didn't report what they saw were told not to by the Airlines they worked for.
As I said before; do you really want to tell your boss you think you're seeing things when your job is "airline pilot"?
secret military aircraft
Which, in and of itself, is pretty damn implausible in this day and age.
You mean - that the military could keep aircraft a secret, without anyone seeing them?
Except they are being seen by someone, or at least evidence is.
molgrips - Member
So... secret military aircraft is the most plausible possibility for the airline pilot UFOs?
mrmonkfinger - Member
secret military aircraft
Which, in and of itself, is pretty damn implausible in this day and age.
How long do you think the F-117A was actually in service before the public became aware of it?
The most common UFO reports given by civilian pilots are of black deltas, frequently over the North Sea, which tends to indicate some sort of spook plane flying in and out of the US bases on the east coast.
When Fairford was operational, there were always 'twitchers' hanging around, and a mate of my brother witnessed something come in late one night, which couldn't be identified. The flare path and runway light came on, but very dim, and a very odd sounding jet came in, with no navigation lights showing. As soon as it touched down and started to taxi, all lights went off, and a car using sidelights only drove out and guided it into an unlit hanger.
Speculation was rife. And this was long before rendition flights.
The black deltas are often believed to be Aurora, and often seem to leave smoke ring trails, indicating a pulse-type propulsion system.
The Blackbird SR-71 was in service with the CIA for quite some time before it became more widely known about, mainly because the US military got into a snit over the spooks having such fancy toys, and demanded that they be allowed to play with them.
Lockeed's Skunk Works no longer use Groom Lake, it's too easily overlooked from the mountains; their test area is deep inside wilderness with no access for many, many miles around, so who knows what goes on in there these days.
I saw a UFO once, but I'm not in the military, or an airline pilot. It was three bright lights moving together in the sky. Mind you, I was pretty close to Edinburgh airport and it was overcast, so while I saw no accompanying plane I'm not going to immediately jump to the conclusion that it was aliens, simply that I couldn't identify what it was.
How long do you think the F-117A was actually in service before the public became aware of it?
10 years was what I'd heard.
I'd be curious as to how long the B2 was kept under wraps?
So are you saying your beliefs are more credible than his then? You must be able to talk to some important* people when you want to 🙄molgrips - MemberIt says at the beginning that he made his 'discovery' in retirement. So he's no different to any other nutjob. In fact the implication that whilst working ad the defence minister he did NOT find evidence of aliens actually backs up the idea that there has not been contact.
*Like me 😛
If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system.mrmonkfinger - MemberBurden of proof, another logical fallacy.
Thing is, we do have some proof they're made by blokes with a plank and a bit of rope. Which would be them owning up to it.
All I want for proof for the claim that [b]all[/b] crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don't think that's too much to ask. The video pedro di maggio posted is not one of these.
That's all well and good, but what would you want as evidence? You do realise eye-witness testimony is permissible evidence in a court of law by the way?piedi di formaggio - MemberAs to whether they have visited us, I'm yet to be convinced. I'm happy to be convinced if someone can actually produce some compelling evidence to prove it. This evidence would need to be convincing though, not just something that someone has written because that's what they think / believe has happened. As has been said already in this post, it's all very well someone saying 'prove it wasn't aliens that made crop circles', but that's a piss easy thing to say when you can't prove it was aliens either.
Let's say I took a selfie with an actual real alien and posted it here.
"[i]Fake![/i]"
Or if I brought one round to your house.
"[i]Fake![/i]" or "[i]Deformed child![/i]", "[i]...I meant you![/i]" etc.
Au contraire. David Icke is more popular and respected than ever. His last talk in London sold out Wembley Arena. He certainly couldn't do that 20 years ago. And neither will any of you in your lifetimes, most likely. His views aren't extreme either - [i]Infinite Love[/i] and all that.piedi di formaggio - MemberAs for saying we should believe because such & such a person ssays we should, because they used to be a politician or something, well that's just silly. David Icke used to be a well respoected sports commentator, but he's got some pretty extreme views now and doesn't command the respect he once did. As for trusting an ex politician??? I think we know that politicians can't always be trusted.
AFAIK this is the first man ever to have held high office to come out and say aliens are among us and that at least 2 groups are colluding within the US government. I think you'll find it's most of the other politicians that can't be trusted.piedi di formaggio - MemberAs for trusting an ex politician??? I think we know that politicians can't always be trusted.
Take current primo banker-puppet David Cameron. This was before he was [s]s[/s]elected.
His response is to fob-off the seriousness with a joke, then say there's likely rational explanations but that he doesn't know anything and there should be openess blah blah. What a cop out. Even if he's telling the truth here he certainly hasn't been open and honest about it since, the lying scrounging poor-killing ****.
Dr Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, has said aliens HAVE made contact and it's been going on for decades.
http://www.****/sciencetech/article-1037471/Apollo-14-astronaut-claims-aliens-HAVE-contact--covered-60-years.html
Cue all the responses like
"[i]He must be out of his goddamned mind! Or a liar! Those astronauts, all that time in zero gravity to smoke weed and make up lies, the barstewards! Giving us things to have to refute on STW. Booooooo! Enough of this, I'm off to stick my Orange 5 in a diesel VAG-mobile[/i]"
Piemonster, I think the B-2 was announced almost as soon as it entered service, it was just too damned big to keep quiet about. I saw it on one of it's few displays at Fairford, when it flew non-stop from it's base, accompanied by two F-15's, who peeled off, it did a couple of low passes, then landed, to everyone's amazement, and taxied over to the other side of the airfield for a crew presentation, then a bit later she taxied back, took off, did another couple of passes, picked up her escorts and flew off. Astonishing thing to see flying close-up, it just doesn't look entirely real.
All I want for proof for the claim that all crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I'm sure these people can help you out there;
http://www.circlemakers.org/perpetrators.html
"so UFO's, seen any?"3 of the 4 said Yes.
2 reported it.
interestingly the 2 that didn't report what they saw were told not to by the Airlines they worked for.
One of the two that didn't report it, wasn't told not to by the airline.
He didn't report anything because he didn't see anything.
Au contraire. David Icke is more popular and respected than ever.
With who though ?
People who think Alex Jones is a credible News Source ?
His last talk in London sold out Wembley Arena.
See above point.
His views aren't extreme either
No. Of course they aren't 🙄
If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system.
All I want for proof for the claim that all crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don't think that's too much to ask.
If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system.
All I want for proof for the claim that at least one crop circle is Alien made is to see any evidence at all that any are made by Aliens. I'd also like to see it addressed without conflating the issue into much wider topics of potential extra terrestrial life in order to blur the subject in a poor attempt to add credence to the theory. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Au contraire. David Icke is more popular and respected than ever. His last talk in London sold out Wembley Arena. He certainly couldn't do that 20 years ago. And neither will any of you in your lifetimes, most likely. His views aren't extreme either - Infinite Love and all that.
Capacity of Wembley Arena - 12,500
Population of United Kingdom - 63,700,000
You could argue that % wise that's 0.02% of the UK that went to see him. Wow - mainstream!!!!!!
His views are extreme - extreme can be defined as 'furthest from the centre or a given point', which I think sums up his views really quite well.
Dr Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, has said aliens HAVE made contact and it's been going on for decades.
Well, that's not quite true from what I can see. Some googling finds:
"Mitchell has publicly expressed his opinions that he is "90 percent sure that many of the thousands of unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, recorded since the 1940s, belong to visitors from other planets"
That's all well and good, but what would you want as evidence? You do realise eye-witness testimony is permissible evidence in a court of law by the way?
Yes, but what's your point here? Yes it's permissible as evidence, but that does not mean what is said is true. Evidence is judged by ones peers in a jury and either accepted as true or rejected as being untrue
What do we want as evidence? Its simple - something that proves that (in this particular thread) at least one crop circle was made by aliens and that proof should be such that there is no other reasonable explanation for what happened
Well, by "these days", I meant now we have the internet etc. 1980 was a slightly different climate with the cold war sort-of-still going, and information less freely available, but right now, information is pretty hard to keep quiet. Thus the current round of stealth aircraft are not very secret at all. The important stuff (stealth coatings, precise geometries, airborne electronic system internals, the stuff that allows the aircraft to do seek and destroy from so far away while evading detection) isn't released to the public but, photos of the F22? Not a problem. F35? Much the same. Aerial capabilities, range, manoeverability? All well known.
Also the complexity of aircraft is increasing. The F117 was 1981 (although that date is a bit blurry, granted). Probably in dev for, I guess, 5 - 10 years. The current generation will take far longer (10 - 15 years?) and cost far more, and thus involve so much more people in their design and production. Which makes things increasingly difficult to keep quiet. Hence it is now really just the details that are secret.
The black deltas are often believed to be Aurora, and often seem to leave smoke ring trails, indicating a pulse-type propulsion system.
Ok, let's assume Aurora exists, and a lid was somehow kept on it, even after all that, a black delta jet aircraft isn't aliens.
If burden of proof is a logical fallacy then so is our entire justice system
Are you happy with that statement to exist for eternity on the internet?
Sure you don't want to retract it?
Because, unless I'm mistaken, you do have to have evidence before accusing someone of a crime, within our legal system. And that evidence has to stand up to scrutiny by a court and jury.
In M. Night Shyamalan's "Signs", Mel Gibson and Joaquin Phoenix are standing in a field of crop circles sayiong that they "are too complex to be made by humans" and I remember thinking "Wow. They've got aliens in the SFX department!" 😆
That's all well and good, but what would you want as evidence?
Videos or photos, and not of things that could easily be latex dummies. I'll claim fake if it looks fake, but it should be easy enough to video things that can't be faked.
Why doesn't an alien land on the White House lawn? Why is it always the middle of Nebraska or somewhere? It would be very very easy for an alien to convince me of its existence.
but right now, information is pretty hard to keep quiet
How do you know? If anything has been kept secret successfully, you woudn't know about it. Or to put it another way, the current set of 'secret stuff we know about' is self-selecting.
"Buzzers" said Ford. "Rich kids from other parts of the galaxy with nothing better to do than land on some remote part of a planet, find some poor unsuspecting local and walk up and down in front of them making "beepbeep" noises.
Rather childish, really..."
Ok, let's assume Aurora exists, and a lid was somehow kept on it, even after all that, a black delta jet aircraft isn't aliens.
Never said they were, just pointing out that many of the so-called 'UFO' sightings are described as such, and Aurora, a much-suggested hypersonic spook aircraft, is supposed to be a black delta, but there is nothing confirmed as to it's existence, so it's still possible that these things are being kept very much under wraps.
Anyone else dumbfounded at the conversation going on here?
Why dumbfounded?
Folk arguing that aliens are among us.
All I want for proof for the claim that all crop circles are man made is to see the really complicated ones replicated by men, at night. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Well, the one you linked to earlier...(which presumably you brought to our attention for a reason)
http://www.ufosightingsdaily.com/2014/01/update-on-crop-circle-in-salinas.html?m=1
As someone has already pointed out......
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/05/nvidia-crop-circle/
Is that enough ?
