MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Debate
Yes.
Moderately.
Does a woodchuck chuck wood?
It wasn't baseballs 🙂
You didn't break any rules as you can say bastards.
If only I'd known that.
Tripster thread isn't closed though. Still being ignored
Bastards
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Tripster thread isn't closed though. Still being ignoredBastards
😆
laissez-faire moderation, intervention only in the most extreme non-legal situations is the way to be.
Theres nothing wrong with banter, swearing, crude humour IMO as long as it does not descend into sustained abuse and/or illegal activities.
Tools of the trade. 😉
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Yes.
And thanks for removing my crap thread last weekend.
Theres nothing wrong with banter, swearing, crude humour IMO as long as it does not descend into sustained abuse and/or illegal activities.
<wondering how chestercopperpot gets away with being a ****/>
'Light hand on the tiller' in my view.
Bit prescriptive when it comes to language but worse things happen at sea. I just rely on the swear filter.
Yes they do. But erratically, I've been banned for a joke but I've never been banned for being an orrible loudmouthed ****, that's just weird 😆
Having been a mod on a fairy large forum (around 120 000 members IIRC) in a previous life, I'd say the STW mods do a decent job. A fairly light touch, humour, and judicious use of the hammer seem to keep things on a fairly even keel.
In my experience, the best moderation is that you don't obviously see. That, and a lot of big-ish forums get faily self-moderating after a while.
I don't get it. It looks from here like no one answered your question on the Tripster thread then you got in a strop and had a pop at Drac.
They definitely do moderate, I logged in once to a screen that simply said "You should know better than that".
No strop - time on my hands after my heart op today and the bringing together of a few threads I started - the musings of a man coming off general anaesthetic.
Drac's a decent chap
No-one's answered my ATR questions though...
My answer is if you do get one, build it tastefully. I am staggered at how horrid some people have made their tripsters. You, howarthp, are now the Hope and saviour of the Tripster thread. Go forth with good taste.
@mogrim - You should of used dollar signs to censor yourself, did you mean c$$t?
I think if forum moderation is so efficient and unintrusive that you have to question whether we do it at all, that's a win. No-one notices a good IT department but everyone notices a bad one.
Anyway. A better (genuine) question might be,
How would you have us moderate differently?
Also,
I have no idea what you're on about re: Tripsters. Not seen any reported posts though.
I logged in once to a screen that simply said "You should know better than that".
That, or similar, happened to me recently and I had absolutely no idea what it meant until now.
I'm not abusive and don't swear so just why I got it now baffles me.
I had a post removed the other day and all it contained was an answer to a geographical question and a smiley comment on someone else's humorous answer.
I just assumed one of the STW clique wanted to win
howarthp - MemberHopefully this should answer it
I'd just like to say thankyou for drawing me to that thread. It is full of love.
Yes and I owe them much for it after removing "that escalated quickly" threads in the past.
I don't get it. It looks from here like no one answered your question on the Tripster thread then you got in a strop and had a pop at Drac.
They definitely do moderate, I logged in once to a screen that simply said "You should know better than that".
This thread was posted after 2 others turned into the normal odd humour ones. He's not being serious.
A night in a hospital and still I don't get an answer and it's about tubeless, 1x11 and SRAM/Shimano compatibility.
Drac - do you know the answer? It's a bit like Lost. I do, however, know what oysters taste like.
I may ask on Mumsnet...
How would you have us moderate differently?
I know this is heresy.................BUT
I don't see why, a second thread on the same subject is shut down so quickly. Sometimes the original thread will descend into the usual subjects "debating" with each other...I don't really have a problem with this but it effectively puts an end to the discussion, for others interested in the thread. A second slower lane thread can sometimes give an outlet and lead to a different take on the same topic. I realise that you can't have the front page full of threads on the same topic so some closing would be required, just think some are stamped on a bit too quickly.....I am preparing for the flaming !!!!
My Wife is a moderator for Netmums (not to be confused with Mumsnet, which is not ( to my knowledge) moderated)) she is on the main boards and often has some interesting decisions to make.
Eh? You are moaning because no one answered your question on a very busy and long winding thread?
Give em chance 🙄
I used to live for mod emails. The hangovers from getting hammered are SO not a good idea at my age though...
Everything in moderation, including moderation itself 😀
Drac and Cougar, for all their considerable assistance, can at times be two of the most belligerent and argumentative people on the forum and have no qualms whatsoever in using their position to assist their own agendas, rather than simply moderate a discussion. It's typical human politics, I suppose, that power corrupts reason; but it doesn't have to be.
Are there other moderators?
No we're not.
In a more serious note can you give any evidence as to where you believe we've abused our power?
Oops - what have I started? The thread was started in jest. FWIW I reckon Drac and Cougar do a great job
It's nice to know we're appreciated like any 'management' you can't please everyone but if people believe we're abusing our power then it can't be corrected. Can't say I've done it intentionally so I'd like to see why Three Fish believes this.
Oops - what have I started? The thread was started in jest. FWIW I reckon Drac and Cougar do a great job
Now hold on. I just offered an observational criticism. Everyone should be open to criticism, especially moderators. This isn't a binary matter, where anyone is either good or bad.
In a more serious note can you give any evidence as to where you believe we've abused our power?
Off the top of my head I could give any specific recent examples, mainly because I've not been reading much here lately. I'm not the only person to have made the observation, though. However, I'll be sure to point it out to you in future.
I think the OP started this thread to talk to someone, his tripster question will be answered soon enough but guess he's feeling lonely... 🙄
No we're not.In a more serious note can you give any evidence as to where you believe we've abused our power?
I think it's a reference to having an opinion and expressing it in a thread. Like you shouldn't be doing that or something.
Is threefish going to be tied to a post and killed with aircraft gun fire now 🙂
I don't get an answer and it's about tubeless, 1x11 and SRAM/Shimano compatibility.
Can't comment on Tubeless, but on the topic of SRAM/Shimano compatibility, their indexing is different. I once ran a Shimano 9speed mech on an 8speed SRAM cassette and shifter. It 'worked' in the sense that I didn't have to singlespeed the bike... but eh... no, not an ideal solution by any stretch of the imagination. It'll keep you rolling though. Best of luck with the recovery too.
I don't see why, a second thread on the same subject is shut down so quickly. Sometimes the original thread will descend into the usual subjects "debating" with each other...I don't really have a problem with this but it effectively puts an end to the discussion, for others interested in the thread. A second slower lane thread can sometimes give an outlet and lead to a different take on the same topic. I realise that you can't have the front page full of threads on the same topic so some closing would be required, just think some are stamped on a bit too quickly.....I am preparing for the flaming !!!!
I think that's actually a good point, and not one I'd considered. The problem is that hot topics de jour and current memes get a lot of "have we done this yet?" threads, and there's no reason why two separate discussions can't flow on one post. Threads have been known to be shut down and restarted when they get too, er, emotive. But I'll bear that in mind in future.
Drac and Cougar, for all their considerable assistance, can at times be two of the most belligerent and argumentative people on the forum and have no qualms whatsoever in using their position to assist their own agendas, rather than simply moderate a discussion. It's typical human politics, I suppose, that power corrupts reason; but it doesn't have to be.
I'm actually a little saddened that you think this. I take great pains to separate my regular user posts from moderatorial ones, even using <mod> tags to differentiate (when I remember). The bulk of my posting on here is as a regular user, the fact I'm also a mod should be immaterial (though it does attract cheap shots from a few folk).
Are there other moderators?
Yes. There are... I'm not actually sure exactly, is "several" a reasonable answer? It's that sort of figure, just that myself and Drac (and one other IIRC) have chosen to "go public."
Off the top of my head I could give any specific recent examples, mainly because I've not been reading much here lately. I'm not the only person to have made the observation, though. However, I'll be sure to point it out to you in future.
You're not? Can't say I've noticed it but if people have and not mentioned it then we can't fix it.
I want to know what Northwind's joke was.
Naaaah, dey is sound.
Moderating ain't easy.
Haterz gon' hate.
(Still wasn't an affiliate site I got into trouble for though 😉 )
I had a post removed the other day and all it contained was an answer to a geographical question and a smiley comment on someone else's humorous answer.
I just assumed one of the STW clique wanted to win
I've just checked back on that. Your post was removed because you called another user a naughty word. Hope that assuages your paranoia.
My "you should know better" was partly deserved, I[s] implied[/s] explicitly stated that the owner of superstar was one for using his mouth around gentleman's rude parts.
Having now read the other threads related to this one I am pleased to see that they were all about some genuine old school stw humour, ten years ago every post on here was like them!
I'd just like to point out that while Drac and Cougar clearly do have opinions, and do sometimes contribute to robust debate, I've never noticed them abusing their positions as moderators. I wonder whether some people think they are when they aren't simply because they're "getting away with" their posting style - missing the point that some others on here also get away with similar posting style (I suspect I'm one) because we know where the line not to be crossed is. The trick is understanding the difference between genuine banter and "it's only banter".
Thank you.
In all seriousness, I won't hold it against anyone who uses the Report-Post button on my posts if I cross any lines myself inadvertently. I'd welcome a second pair of eyes sometimes TBH (and for what it's worth, I have banned myself before now...!)
I came to STW from another sports forum. It was unmoderated but remarkable sedate in comparison - too tiring trainging for three sports! Much less vitriole and posse hunting. So STW was a shock at first even though it is apparently "moderate" in relation to other MBK forums etc.
Tudor watches aside, I think this is well moderated. Bloody thankless task and hard to know where to draw the line between mild piss-taking and rudeness/unpleasaness.
But done well here IMO and where inconsistent that is normally funny eg, my recent Kleenex reference was removed while DD and A_A's more open references to mastrubation (Rugby thread) survived. That's quite amusing and the result arguably more appropriate!
Coug's recent reference to little brown people did raise an eyebrow though 😉
Whilst Cougar isn't always politically correct I like the way he enters debate with as much enthusiasm as before becoming a moderator. Special behaviour seems to expected of mods (as this threa dshows) and some behave special, but Cougar is still Cougar. He's also unlikely to ban you for making pertinent observations to i-fanboi, Audi driving, San... .
*awaits ban*
And don't forgot there are some moderators that don't have 'moderator' in their title...
(-:
I've said this before, but any perceived inconsistency is down to the facts that a) we don't always see everything and so rely on reported posts to catch what we miss, and b) different moderators may make differing judgement calls. That is to say, it's very common for issues to be grey rather than black or white (and some people are so very very good at pushing the edges).
We might not always get it right, but we try to.
And don't forgot there are some moderators that don't have 'moderator' in their title...
They are amongst you... walking around like regular people... watching... waiting...
Not sure we have special behaviour we have to play by the same rules as anyone on here. Only special part is we have to play by the rules as it'll soon get pointed out if we don't. We don't always make right decisions. We also don't see every post as its impossible so that's why some posts appear that we've ignored them and allowed rules to be broken.
Only special part is we have to play by the rules as it'll soon get pointed out if we don't.
There does seem to be two schools of thought on this. I've seen comments along the lines of "we can't say anything because you're a moderator" - there's similar examples on this very thread - and the other side of the coin where a couple of folk seem to have to consistently leap on everything I say. But y'know, whatevs.
I'm the moderator for Drac & Cougar, as I wear long trousers...
I think the mods do a good job, one I like and am indebted to one is meh and does come across as quite belligerent.
And don't forgot there are some moderators that don't have 'moderator' in their title...
Speaking which, why do some users have tags attached such as "troll" "lazarus" etc?
Is this the mods bullying online?
Is this the mods bullying online?
Not us, we don't have the privs to change those. Which is probably a good thing on the whole, it's not a set of keys I could be trusted with. (-:
People have been banned by being argumentative, belligerent, and....pithy, without being particularly offensive. A couple of the moderators consistently behave in the same way but get away with it. I'm not sure you can realistically split your posts into 'just another user', and 'moderator' when it says moderator under your name. Result is that it looks like you are abusing the position, not that it really matters of course......
And don't forgot there are some moderators that don't have 'moderator' in their title...
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So its the heed bummers that are doing it.
Question still stand to them tho
I don't feel bullied, I'm still here. I wasn't sure if I should be flattered or insulted when it appeared, as it made me laugh I decided to be flattered. Either way it saves hunting for a suitable smiley to put after posts.
Question still stand to them tho
I suspect the answer will be "because it's funny."
People have been banned by being argumentative, belligerent, and....pithy, without being particularly offensive.
Assuming you mean the people I think you mean, it was before my tenure so I can't really comment on that. I would expect though that people are more likely to earn a life ban for being persistently disruptive and derailing every thread they touch rather than merely enjoying a lively debate. Certainly, that's the yardstick I'd use.
Bear in mind also that sometimes there's more going on that you don't see. Some have sent in very offensive emails which have contributed to their being no longer welcome, for example.
Some of the moderation e-mails sent out were less than diplomatic. Recent ones have been civil.
This is the only forum I frequent.
If you didn't know Drac & Cougar were mods, I don't think you could tell.
Which is nice.
Drac has a very dry sense of humour, which still confounds me on occasion.
I know I do too, which really annoys some folk - all sorted by friendly emails, hopefully.
Not sure what it takes to get banned on here, I've never even had a formal warning.
Anyway, thanks mods, whoever you all are.
I'm the moderator for Drac & Cougar, as I wear long trousers...
Shit Dad's here.
People have been banned by being argumentative, belligerent, and....pithy, without being particularly offensive. A couple of the moderators consistently behave in the same way but get away with it.
There's far more to it to that.
So who is non-shit dad then?
[quote=angeldust ]People have been banned by being argumentative, belligerent, and....pithy, without being particularly offensive. A couple of the moderators consistently behave in the same way but get away with it.
Well personally I'd suggest that it's incorrect to ban such people - one I'm aware of it seems that the ban was because other people reacted to the belligerence by being offensive and it was easier to ban him than those actually causing the problem - [s]mods[/s] mob rules.
Hence I'd not be very comfortable with mods getting banned for doing similar.
being argumentative, belligerent and pithy is fine then? Great, carry on then.
Edit.....above was a reply to drac, not aracer.
Note, I'm not interested in anyone getting banned
Have always thought that stw was moderated petty well. I know of a few people being banned for what on the face of it seem fairly innocuous posts but have actually turned out to be abusive gobshites via other media.
The liberal way in which stw tends to be moderated is to its benefit. I used to frequent lfgss quite a bit which certainly was totally in moderated. Could get a bit bitchy at times which spoilt the threads. Loads of 'in' jokes that were just abusive posts really. And then there's some of the other MTB forums, some of which are moderated to within an inch of their lives with moderators getting very carried away.
being argumentative, belligerent and pithy is fine then? Great, carry on then.
Edit.....above was a reply to drac, not aracer.
Nope it's not as well you know.
If that's the case (and this was my point), perhaps the mods should set an example and practice what they preach. If I look back at Cougars last 20 posts ( not going to in practice btw) I reckon I would describe a large proportion of them as being argumentative, belligerent and pithy, and not following 'stw expected behaviour' (for want of a better description), but that's okay because he is a mod? Just an observation...Perhaps it's just the particular threads I tend to open......
I think it depends what you describe as "argumentative, belligerent and pithy" and what the mods deem to be unacceptable. The thing is, a certain amount of that done in the right spirit is one of the things that makes this place great - it is when it is done in a negative way it is a problem (TBH I'm not sure Drac's post saying "it's not fine" is the most helpful, because clearly a lot of it is fine - I'm assuming there is a bit of background to this, but as we're not supposed to discuss specific moderation decisions...).
I suspect there isn't a total meeting of the minds on this one - I don't believe I've ever seen a post from Cougar or Drac which falls on the wrong side of the line and which wouldn't be fine according to any of the other mods irrespective of their status. As I mentioned before there's a difference between genuine banter and "it's only banter". Maybe it would be instructive if you could actually go through Cougar's recent posts and find one which you think is unacceptable - if you really think a large proportion of them are, then it shouldn't be too hard to find one.
That certainly would prove my point aracer, but frankly I'm not that arsed, and not that sad! None of Cougars posts have ever been directed at me..... like I say, this is just my general opinion of what I see of his output i.e. It is not very moderate for a moderator.
Note...there is no 'background' to this, or a specific issue..this is just the observations of someone who has been on here for ~15 years, and is noticing a general trend.
Which proves Cougars point form the previous page (and mine) that moderators are either expected to behave in a special way or behave in a special way. Cougar hasn't changed, which IMO is to his credit. He's still as helpful as ever on IT questions and still as opinionated as ever when driving Gods start spouting nonsense.
[quote=angeldust ]this is just my general opinion of what I see of his output i.e. It is not very moderate for a moderator.
Ah, well opinions clearly vary on how moderate moderators should be. Personally I reckon if there was a clash between the two (not that I believe there is) he should keep posting the way he does and give up being a mod. To throw back a comment he made recently, Cougar and Drac are some of the good guys.
edit: or what edu wrote