Mat - no doubt but it's still just a toy. I can find things on google maps too with my 6630. Of course I can't GPS stuff and have a GPS for that which it would be nice to incorporate, but as I said at the beginning, I can't really justify that sort of cost for what is essentially just a toy. My latest car has auto-wipers etc but I don't miss them when I drive a car without? Maybe it's just me, I work around gadgets like that all day most days (I work in EEE) and see them as neat but struggle to see the value added for my own use. Maybe its my permanent immersion in the area that stops it interesting me.
So when you're travelling, and you need to check in for your return flight, you do what? Go home and check in on your computer? Run around trying to find an internet cafe with a printer? Or what? You want to find out when the train is coming - your way you will have missed 10 trains before the man at the station picks up the phone. You're not "stupid" enough to be out and about, and think you fancy eating sushi, or seeing a film, or whatever? What a boring pre-planned life you must have!
Really - you don't want a smartphone, don't buy one, but your claims for their not being useful are sounding more and more absurd.
Of course I can't GPS stuff and have a GPS for that which it would be nice to incorporate, but as I said at the beginning, I can't really justify that sort of cost for what is essentially just a toy.
So is GPS a toy as well? What makes something a toy in your world?
So when you're travelling, and you need to check in for youre return flight, you do what? Go home and check in on your computer? Run around trying to find an internet cafe with a printer? Or what? You want to find out when the train is coming - your way you will have missed 10 trains before the man at the station picks up the phone. You're not "stupid" enough to be out and about, and think you fancy eating sushi, or seeing a film, or whatever? What a boring pre-planned life you must have!Really - you don't want a smartphone, don't buy one, but your claims for their not being useful are sounding more and more absurd.
Just out of interest, when was the last time you were wandering about in a strange city and wondered where the nearest sushi restaurant was?
So when you're travelling, and you need to check in for youre return flight, you do what? Go home and check in on your computer? Run around trying to find an internet cafe with a printer? Or what?
Check in when I get there in person.
You want to find out when the train is coming - your way you will have missed 10 trains before the man at the station picks up the phone.
Really? How have I survived for decades? Maybe I've just never met this poor train station you have dealt with 😯
You're not "stupid" enough to be out and about, and think you fancy eating sushi, or seeing a film, or whatever? What a boring pre-planned life you must have!
No, generally if I decide to go to see a film/go for food I'll think about it at lunchtime, text a few mates to get them onboard and then book it on the computer either at lunch or after work. Not exactly pre-planned, just not booked while walking past the place (which you could then walk into and book in person)
Really - you don't want a smartphone, don't buy one, but your claims for their not being useful are sounding more and more absurd.
My phone is (technically) classed as a smartphone as I said, but I rarely use its features and don't recognise the "needs" you seem to class as so vital.
So is GPS a toy as well? What makes something a toy in your world?
In the context of the everyday person, yes. Do you really [b]need[/b] to track your runs on GPS? Or do you do it because it's fun and you bought a toy with that feature so might as well use it?
Just out of interest, when was the last time you were wandering about in a strange city and wondered where the nearest sushi restaurant was?
Not recently. But I do wander round strange cities and wonder where things are. And in that situation it saves me a lot of time and trouble. I mentioned a while ago the case of being in a car accident and needing to find a nearby garage and then navigate to it.
I'm just saying I've never, ever in my life stopped and thought "if I had an i-phone I could do this". I don't have a less or more exciting life than anyone else, I don't live in a small village and work in the local corner shop, likewise I don't jet about the world in search of new horizons, but I've never thought of them as anything more than just a toy. If I'm going to a strange city I'll check it out beforehand and see some places to go to. Fun to have, for a while, but a bit of a waste and a tendency to turn people into social rejects (and coming from me, that's saying something). I just despair at the "lets go to the pub" "ok" <sits watching everyone crowded round their mates phone watching crap on youtube and updating their facebook status with "watching youtube with friends in pub". Really.
WRT acceident and finding garage/navigating to it - sure, thats a single mild case of "oh, it'd be handy there" but ultimately I'd just speak to a local or flag a car down if there were none about.
Check in when I get there in person.
Good for you. You like queues, I don't. You have time between flights to spend checking in, I sometimes don't. That saves me time and money.
No, generally if I decide to go to see a film/go for food I'll think about it at lunchtime
What a fun guy you are!
I don't claim that my phone fulfils essential needs. I claim that it makes many things in my life a bit easier, sufficiently so for it to be worth the price for me. You are perfectly free to come to a different conclusion. I'm sure my granny would agree with you.
Coffee - I totally hear where you're coming from and I just can't stand i-phones
Then don't buy one and go merrily about your day.
Sweet Jesus this shit gets repetitive.
Good for you. You like queues, I don't. You have time between flights to spend checking in, I sometimes don't. That saves me time and money.
I've never queued for flights for more than about 15 minutes.
What a fun guy you are!
I'm sorry, is thinking about going out at lunchtime somehow less "fun" than thinking about it nearer the time? Really? GTFOOH.
You are perfectly free to come to a different conclusion.
As I have, I'm not the one who went militant trying to justify it, I just posed my thoughts as others did. I'm also not the child who tried to make it personal. I just said it's a toy that isn't really justifiable as it doesnt add anything to my life that I can't already do just fine with a 6 year old phone. You got upset and tried to prove me wrong. In context with the OP, yes apple do think people are made of cash and are exploiting them with the "latest greatest" "must have" gadget that does **** all extra on top of existing technology so you must either value the stuff fairly highly or fall for the hype and need to defend it.
You got upset and tried to prove me wrong.
Errr, wrong and wrong. You're the one trying to prove that there are handy alternatives to an iPhone, like carrying around a set of copies of the Yellow Pages, or ringing up the station before you head out of the house, or standing in queues at the airport. You like that stuff - as I said, go ahead.
Coffeeking:
I have some sympathies. I saw no need for a smartphone and I was quite happy with a basic hand-me-down Nokia that a mate gave me until the day my missus got an iPod Touch and my eyes were opened.
You do realise that your protests sound incredibly similar to the kind of thing people were saying 10 or 15 years ago about mobile phones?
"Why would I need a portable cellular phone? I have a perfectly good phone at home and if I'm going out I'll call people before I leave"
Progress is always the most difficult for the old 😀
Errr, wrong and wrong. You're the one trying to prove that there are handy alternatives to an iPhone, like carrying around a set of copies of the Yellow Pages, or ringing up the station before you head out of the house, or standing in queues at the airport. You like that stuff - as I said, go ahead.
You tell me it does things better than my existing phone. With my existing phone I can do everything you stated (other than GPS). Either by phoning people or by texting them. My point was that it's a toy, it makes doing things more fun, but it's hardly needed. While you like to take things to extremes for the sake of trying to damage my argument I'm willing to chuckle at your expenditure and continue doin things just as quickly and easily as you but utilising my voice, brain and hearing. 🙄 I don't stand around in queues for anything, never need to carry stuff around but yes I might need to speak to a real person rather than downloading an app, scooching through menus and finding the station I want. You obviously live such a wild and hectic lifestyle that you can't afford to chill for a few seconds on the phone to somewhere to speak to someone, or plan in advance and check in 30 mins early so you can sit and enjoy a coffee until boarding. Your call, and I never said it was a bad call, I just said I don't get why it's any better than existing tech other than its toy-status.
You do realise that your protests sound incredibly similar to the kind of thing people were saying 10 or 15 years ago about mobile phones?
I'm aware of that and, to be honest I'd hardly miss my mobile if I lost it anyway as I have many other avenues of contact with my mates, but I'm not saying phones are not fun with their optional extras, just that I don't see them as worth the additional cost myself. If you have plenty of spare cash and like having the latest greatest way of browsing the web - shoot for it. I don't really give a damn, I have access to computers and tech all day long, all night long at home and at work, I just don't need another channel of options.
Incidentally I'm young and spend most of my time with students working in electronics.
Why is it a toy?
I'm using it to post replies on here. Now arguably that isn't a basic requirement for continued living, but it is a genuinely useful function. Ergo it is a useful tool.
Conversely if the iphone is a toy then by extension so is whatever device you are using to reply to me.
Then don't buy one and go merrily about your day.Sweet Jesus this shit gets repetitive.
Not when you "forget" that I bought an HTC Desire instead. Oh how selective pasting appeals to so many.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that all this stuff is only possible with an iphone (posted from my nokia 6230)
I'm using it to post replies on here. Now arguably that isn't a basic requirement for continued living, but it is a genuinely useful function. Ergo it is a useful tool.
It's a toy, as you don't need to be posting here 🙂
Conversely if the iphone is a toy then by extension so is whatever device you are using to reply to me.
No, I'm using a tool as a toy 😉
I'm not against them, I just don't get the need and so the whole "do they think we are made of money" question is answered with "yes". That was the point of my post in the first place. As posted above, I can post on here with my 6630, doesnt really make it a tool in my view.
Exactly, i'd quite like a smartphone but there's no way i can justify the cost when i can do nearly everything i need to on my 5 year old pay and go nokia
You seem to be under the misapprehension that all this stuff is only possible with an iphone (posted from my nokia 6230)
Exactly.
i-phone users seem to think that they have the only smartphone in the World and this therefore catapults them to superiority.
1)They are about as unique as Tesco.
2)Many smartphones outclass them.
3)They have a comically useless camera (i-phoners love to declare that they have no use for a phone camera of course)
4)They can't do Flash
5)They are limited to i-tunes
6)They have a battery life so poor that if I was writing this from one, I'd have had to change the battery by now
7)They are huge
8)The screens scratch too easily
9)I've fallen asleep
You seem to be under the misapprehension that all this stuff is only
possible with an iphone (posted from my nokia 6230)
A 6230? LOL. That was the hand-me-down I mentioned!
Tell you what: if it is perfectly functional then why not quote this text back to me then open another tab in your browser, google for an amusing image and add it to the reply.
Other phones may support some of the same functionality, but only with the latest gen of smartphones (iphone, backberry, Android) did that functionality become usable enough that people started using it all the time rather than just in an emergency.
I've recently got a smartphone, but could quite honestly do without it.
What has this iPhone arguement got to do with the original topic of the iPad which isn't a phone & doesn't have 3G or anything else? (erm, or does it....?)
It can't be used for half the stuff mentioned in the iPhone justifications above, such as all these things you can do on the move.
I'm well aware that i can't do quite as much as an iphone or other smart phones, it's not something i find too limiting to be honest and an extra 300 quid a year to post pictures on a forum doesn't seem like value for money
It's a toy, as you don't need to be posting here
Well yes, but by that logic EVERYTHING is a toy apart from the very few things we need for basic survival.
I want to post here. My phone allows me to. And does so well enough that I very rarely use any other device to post on here.
stumpy01: the 3G iPad has 3G. The Wifi Only one doesn't.
The conversation has moved on somewhat though. I personally won't be buying an ipad. But I'd still like one and I get the point.
"What has this iPhone arguement got to do with the original topic of the iPad which isn't a phone & doesn't have 3G or anything else? (erm, or does it....?)"
Nothing at all, but as I stated elsewhere, all Internet discussion must tend towards criticism of the iPhone.
I'm well aware that i can't do quite as much as an iphone or other
smart phones, it's not something i find too limiting to be honest
So if it isn't too limiting then presumably you still happily use it for a large proportion of your web surfing, email etc?
all Internet discussion must tend towards criticism of the iPhone
Sounds fair to me. 😀
This is every bit as tedious as the rigid singlespeeding vs full suspension threads.
I've got a Nexus One, and tbh it's a toy. Possibly my favourite toy, but a toy nonetheless.
I love gadgets, I've got a magpie-like love of shiny new things, and if I try to do a cost/benefit analysis I'll just get depressed. Is it useful? Yes. Could I live without it? Yes, too. It's great when you're waiting somewhere and you can have a quick game of Doodle Jump or whatever, read an eBook, maybe surf onto STW, but that's hardly necessary.
I bang nails in with my shoe, it doesn't mean my hammer is a toy 😀
You tell me it does things better than my existing phone. With my existing phone I can do everything you stated (other than GPS). Either by phoning people or by texting them. My point was that it's a toy, it makes doing things more fun, but it's hardly needed. While you like to take things to extremes for the sake of trying to damage my argument I'm willing to chuckle at your expenditure and continue doin things just as quickly and easily as you but utilising my voice, brain and hearing. I don't stand around in queues for anything, never need to carry stuff around but yes I might need to speak to a real person rather than downloading an app, scooching through menus and finding the station I want. You obviously live such a wild and hectic lifestyle that you can't afford to chill for a few seconds on the phone to somewhere to speak to someone, or plan in advance and check in 30 mins early so you can sit and enjoy a coffee until boarding. Your call, and I never said it was a bad call, I just said I don't get why it's any better than existing tech other than its toy-status.
We already established that you can't check in for flights with a non-smart phone. That's fine if you have a lot of time on your hands, if your colleagues don't mind you leaving a meeting early so you can get to the airport in time to have a coffee, or if your flight is never late so you have to run for a connection. Tom and Barbara would be proud.
Calling train information? Cool! I live in Denmark - how's your conversational Danish? "They all speak English" - hmm, not quite, but anyway, will they understand you want to get the train to Brondbyøster and then change to Jyllngevej?
Maybe that constitutes a toy for you. For me it's as much a tool as your pitchfork.
Incidentally...
1)They are about as unique as Tesco.
2)Many smartphones outclass them.
3)They have a comically useless camera (i-
phoners love to declare that they have no use
for a phone camera of course)
4)They can't do Flash
5)They are limited to i-tunes
6)They have a battery life so poor that if I was
writing this from one, I'd have had to change
the battery by now
7)They are huge
8)The screens scratch too easily 9)I've fallen asleep
... while you're right about the battery (just 1219mAh versus 1400mAh in the HTC Desire) and the camera, which is adequate but not great, the rest of that is either nonsense, equally applies to other smartphones, or is simply irrelevant (to me at least).
or a million other things that people in a modern society want to do, then I recommend you look at getting [s]an iPhone[/s] [b]a smartphone[/b]
Fixed that for ya.
The problem I have with iPhones is that a) some folk seem to think they are the best and only thing ever, and b) they are charging based on that fact.
My phone has GPS, MP3, nice camera, sportstracker, facebook, push email, apps, google maps, etc etc etc. It was free on a £15/mo contract - Nokia 5800.
It's not quite as good as an iPhone - new windows in the browser is a ballache for instance, but it was free, so it's difficult to complain too much about that.
As for smartphone uses - I once went to Reading for an interview. I drove to the place, it had no carpark, so I drove around in circles of ringroadiness for a bit til I found a carpark, then used my satnav to take me the most direct route through side streets to get back to the office. Useful - yes. Life changing - no.
I log my runs with sportstracker - it's nice to be able to see what pace I am doing and I sometimes use the maps.
I use facebook when out and about sometimes - I like my friends, and I like keeping in touch this way from time to time. I do find facebook life-changing in a small way, I'm now more in touch with more friends than ever, and they are real actual friends and family that I'd have drifted apart from quite easily otherwise.
What else.. I use the camera a lot for stills and videos - my daughter does something cute, whip out the phone and snap it. If I'm out biking and see someting cool - likewise. I also surf with it to find things out - the other day I left the house for the British XC race in a right rush, turns out I'd forgotten to take down the postcode to find the pace. No bother, I just used my phone to google it.
Little things, innit.
My phone has GPS, MP3, nice camera, sportstracker, facebook, push email, apps, google maps, etc etc etc. It was free on a £15/mo contract - Nokia 5800.
Whilst that's true, I've used & owned and developed for a lot of Nokias, also used iPhones, and now have an HTC Desire as my personal phone, and the iPhone and HTC are streets ahead of even the newest Nokias. The HTC & iPhones are as big a step up from the 5800 as the Nokia smartphones were from a talk/text only phone.
It is just a million times less fiddly to do everything, the web browser is so much better, it doesn't do 'out of memory' or randomly crash out of apps in the same way that Nokia phones seem to, the phone user interfaces are really well thought out, applications mostly have much nice user interfaces also. Nokia has too much hanging around from the early days of their 15-20 year old Symbian operating system that kind of makes things less stable.
Nokia are also an absolute nightmare pain in the arse to develop software for, so it is pretty unlikely they'll ever get the same kind of quantity or quality of applications that the newer systems have. I certainly will never develop for Nokia again unless someone is paying me a whole lot more money than I normally get paid - it is just a real hassle, and I've got quite a lot of experience of developing for Nokia/Symbian, and >20 years of development experience on other things, so it really shouldn't be as hard as it feels.
Joe
My Iphone was free on contract. Not exactly expensive.
The problem I have with iPhones is that a) some folk seem to think they are the best and only thing ever
Sounds like a problem with people, not with inanimate lumps of plastic and stuff?
Not disputing the fact that an iPhone is better than a 5800, but can't see that it's worth 200 notes. And I think S60 r5 is tons better than r3 - I really don't like r3 and never really did.
Got any opinions on Maemo and the N900? Considering it at a later date if/when they come available. And yes I am a techie so I get that it's a hardcore techie phone etc.
DrJ - yes, it's a problem with people (isn't it always?), but that is keeping the prices too high for me. Note that I could afford it, but without the hype I don't think it's worth it.
I'm with coffeeking on this, and I say that as a researcher in computer science so I like to think I'm not a resolutely backwards-looking luddite.
I can think of occasions when an iPhone/similar smartphone would be dead handy, but I don't really equate, say, deciding to go to see a film on the spur of the moment rather than sorting it out a bit earlier with a wildy more exciting life than I have now. DrJ may have stepped straight out of an Apple ad but I think for the vast majority of people it's more a case of facebook in the pub rather than talking to their mates which isn't quite so hip IMO.
That's not to knock iPhones/smartphones, but more the suggestion that anyone who doesn't feel an immediate need for one is some sort of unimaginative fun sponge.
What I find most useful about smartphones etc. is that you can't buy a decent PDA any more, so you need a phone that does all that stuff. Or an ipod touch, which seems the only other alternative now.
But then, some people can remember what they are doing so might not need to have all their diary / contacts / notes in one place...
Anyway, iPad - I reckon your gran needs one to be able to email the grandkids without having to know the first thing about computers.
That's not to knock iPhones/smartphones, but more the suggestion that anyone who doesn't feel an immediate need for one is some sort of unimaginative fun sponge.
Very well put (and that's from a recent smartphone convert)!!
Got any opinions on Maemo and the N900? Considering it at a later date if/when they come available. And yes I am a techie so I get that it's a hardcore techie phone etc.
I've done a bit of work on N800s (or was it n810,can't remember), running Maemo. It is nice that it runs linux. The user interface sucks a bit still. It can run lots of linux applications, which is nice, but it is a bit of a desktop operating system crammed into a handheld device, which feels a bit weird, same as old windows mobile phones used to. It doesn't feel like it is designed for mobile use. Very neat as a little computer in your pocket, but I'm not sure I'd want one as a phone. They are quite big too, even compared to the HTC Desire / iPhone. I'd also wonder how good the applications for them will be - personally, I quite like having a phone that normal people use, as developers seem to develop things with better user interfaces when their target market is normal people.
Joe
My Iphone was free on contract. Not exactly expensive.
No it wasn't. You're just paying for it in installments.
I bet if you'd stuck with your old phone, you could have got the same number of minutes / texts etc. for £15-20 a month less, meaning that if you're on a 24 month contract, it is costing you £360.
For example on O2, you can get 600 minutes / unlimited texts for £20 a month, or for £35 a month with an iPhone.
Joe
I think for the vast majority of people it's more a case of facebook in the pub rather than talking to their mates which isn't quite so hip IMO.
All I can suggest is that you get some new mates. For me, an iPhone in the pub gives you the opportunity to say "shall we go and see a film?", rather than just being stuck with your pint of mild.
Fair enough MrSalmon, but I still draw parallels to the mobile phone. How many people thought they needed one before they became popular?
How long did they have one before it became essential and changed the way they lived?
A smartphone means you have the web, email, calendar, tv, radio, music collection, movies, camera, games, sat nav, utilities etc with you at all times.
These are very useful things to have, whether folk realise it or not.
All I can suggest is that you get some new mates. For me, an iPhone in the pub gives you the opportunity to say "shall we go and see a film?", rather than just being stuck with your pint of mild.
Wow. I really wish I was you- clearly you have a lifestyle losers like me can only aspire to.