I needed a large estate. My choice was diesel, bigger diesel or a super sports.petrol version. That is the core of the problem.
+1 Exactly the same thing happened to my parents. The big issue is that a couple of years ago scientific consensus was that diesel was cleaner than petrol. As a result almost all (American excluded) manufacturers, at the behest of european governments, removed petrol engines from their ranges aside from the most powerful / ridiculous options. Now diesel is evil again but the manufacturers don't have the alternatives available!
I was at an event a couple of weeks ago where a local Mitsubishi dealership were a sponsor. They had a new 4x4 there (can't remember the model now) with the tagline, 'the new petrol suv'. I was quite surprised as I couldn't have imagined any manufacturer actively pushing the petrol angle on that type of vehicle 12 months ago.
The big issue is that a couple of years ago scientific consensus was that diesel was cleaner than petrol.
It really wasn't. The problem was (and still is) that the government wasn't listening.
As long as the desire for personal transportation exists it never will die
Star Trek transporters are what we need. Have your atoms disassembled and then let a computer put them back together again at your destination.
Actually hybrids wear their pads far less too.
+1 Exactly the same thing happened to my parents. The big issue is that a couple of years ago scientific consensus was that diesel was cleaner than petrol.
No absolutely not - as someone who was doing an Environmental Science degree at the time it most certainly wasn't the scientific consensus - it was the political consensus to bail out the european car industry.
I have nothing to worry about.
My diesel powered car has a big button in the middle of the dashboard like this….
You misunderstand that button. Eco is Greek for home or house. Press that button and the car will simply take you home.
You still own a car though. Brake dust particulate creating miscreant.
Barely use the brakes, take my foot off the go-pedal and the regen that charges the battery slows the car down nicely ya.
I do love it, s’peshly cos I look down on folk as I whaft on by.
👻👻👾
I
The big issue is that a couple of years ago scientific consensus was that diesel was cleaner than petrol. As a result almost all (American excluded) manufacturers, at the behest of european governments, removed petrol engines from their ranges aside from the most powerful / ridiculous options. Now diesel is evil again but the manufacturers don’t have the alternatives available!
There are two (somewhat) unrelated problems - greenhouse gases, and poisoning. Diesel is better from the former point of view but worse from the latter - this was always the scientific consensus, but greenhouse gases were in the public eye at the time (a bit like the plastic in our seas issue right now). The reason motorists jumped on diesels in such a big way was largely because of fuel consumption. It coincided with technology sorting out a lot of the shortcomings of diesels (dmfs to smooth out the vibration, turbos to give them power, and dpfs to cut down the black smoke). Now that motorists have developed a habit for big heavy powerful cars that give previously unimaginable mileage they are not going to give that up in a hurry. There are and have always been petrol alternatives but they are thirsty by diesel standards. Road tax is a minor factor compared to fuel cost, so the government couldn't and didn't need to influence buyers to buy diesel.
The one thing that did mitigate against diesel purchase was the increasing number of problems people were having with all the band-aid devices that diesels had to be equipped with to solve their traditional diesel shortcomings. Ironically the diesel car engine went from being the "go on forever" option, to the one with all the problems, thanks to those egr valves and clogged up dpfs.
Those suggesting banning vehicles and only allowing cycling or walking in cities, how would you suggest I move around bulky heavy test equipment and the occasional Gas cylinder that can weigh between 5 and 400 kilos. (Fire suppression stuff so fairly important).
Using London as an example, most traffic is trade, deliveries, taxis and busses.
So if I get this, its Euro 6, right?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-mini-cannabis-leaf-vinyl-sticker-skunk-weed-pot-hash-ganja-car-window-DIY/222831800019?epid=15014684126&hash=item33e1cf6ed3:g:c3kAAOSwBmlafhgD
"Those suggesting banning vehicles and only allowing cycling or walking in cities, how would you suggest I move around bulky heavy test equipment and the occasional Gas cylinder that can weigh between 5 and 400 kilos. (Fire suppression stuff so fairly important)."
Same way they do in other car free cities.
You bring them in at night
So the pollution’s at night instead then?
And when you being stuff in at night people want "night" wages and costs go up and people whine.!
LPG - diesel hybrids are an option not many people seem to consider. You inject a mix of the fuels (lpg is the main ingredient, diesel is injected at tickover levels just to initiate compression ignition) and you end up with diesel economy with very low particulate emissions as the LPG atomises much better than diesel.
Downside is cost, it would be prohibitive in a car but works brilliantly in bigger vans/trucks.
I've got a huge diesel car. It doesn't have a button with a leaf on it but you could probably park a Nissan Leaf in the boot. Do I win a cookie?
This mileage malarkey for Diesels ie 20k + is only really if your buying new. If you only drive 5 k a year but each journey is 50+ miles it’s still cheaper to buy a used diesel especially now the prices have dropped through the floor. It’s the type of journey you do not just the distance. I’ve just bought a Seat Leon 2.0 FR diesel. It’s brilliant for driving to work visiting friends and family and trips away. For all other shorter journeys I ride, take the train, park and ride or walk. It also has an eco setting but that is offset by the sport mode button!
Also I have to physically be there to do my job, in today’s age who that works in an office actually physically needs to be there?? I’m not talking contractually or because it’s looks good.
Great news for me, will drive the price of diesels down as well as a flooding of second hand ones at bargain prices. Will it affect the price at the pump also?
So hybrid vans. Quick google shows a lot of glowing newspaper articles/reprinted sales brochures. About 16-27 grand for the two models currently available and the upcoming Transit PHEV starting around 25k in the UK.
Anyone bought one other than corporate fleets, Harrods etc?
Maybe my next van will be a Hybrid, it’s old being a 16 plate on roughly 70kmiles but I don’t buy the Vans, they tend to be whatever the best deal is at the time. I guess price/tax will be the decider.
In the meantime I’ll put a blue or green sticker on it to do my bit. All I can do is try to keep the economy in the late 30’s and turn it off whenever possible.
Got a 5200 part chop at a main dealer on a 12 plate transit yesterday. Prices haven't dropped that much in the van world. I looked at the petrol transit but it is still a good way off actually being available.
10 years from now we’ll all wonder why we worked so hard to maintain the myth we all need to be in the same place at the same time to work.
Not everyone works in an office, those of us that work in a place that makes an actual physical product cant just sit on our rings at home
About 25-30k for a proper sized van, that's a big layout for a sole trader!
Alright for corporate businesses as usual, oh and a nice bit of coin for the manufactures to boot. No wonder they have all got great big smiles on their faces, patting each other on the back, well done boys another nice little earner bagged.
Not everyone works in an office
Doesn't change the fact that many of us do.
My scruffy Mondeo diesel doesn't have a fancy leaf or Eco sticker either but It's just passed it's MOT & emissions were well within It's limits. It's also got '53.3mpg' showing as average fuel consumption (15 miles each way to work)
But I'm still concerned so I might get a hybrid.
However, I have a caravan & enjoy travelling up to the West coast of Scotland with it. Now what?
(don't even mention cycling to work, I'm 61 & my only viable route is on busy, twisty A & B roads, with no changing facilities at work)
Plus, the local authority I drive for have 16 minibuses (at one depot out of six) & all are diesels, each doing around 19-22mpg & mostly around towns (& only doing an average of 30 miles per day). I should really ask why in this day & age, can't local authorities do more to reduce the use of diesel engined vehicles. Knowing management I'd be shot down in flames for daring to be so.....advisory?
^There are no viable alternatives that's why. ^
My 51-plate Octavia is really going to need a replacement in the next year or so, it’s a diesel, and I had considered petrol, because it sat in front of my house most of the week, only being used at weekends.
However, my circumstances have changed in the last couple of weeks, and I now have to drive to work for the first time in around twelve years, doing thirty miles a day, mostly along the A350, with traffic generally flowing pretty well, so I’m reconsidering my choices and will almost certainly go for diesel again. I do have access to a variety of cars through work, which is a company that does remedial and repair work to ex-Motability cars which then go to auction or are bought direct by dealers, so I might be able to score a nice deal on a two or three year old diesel crossover.
hybrid electric cargo bicycle for the last few miles or delivered in advance in electric van.
Cities need to change.
I'm already nudged. I do long trips to the cities in a big diesel and the last mile by electric bicycle. No parking costs. No searching for parking.
Can’t remember the last time I was in a petrol taxi.
Also I have to physically be there to do my job, in today’s age who that works in an office actually physically needs to be there?? I’m not talking contractually or because it’s looks good.
Agree 100%. Imagine how many cars would be taken off the roads by giving companies meaningful incentives (or legislating) to allow people to work from home? Obviously not everyone works in an office, or could practically work from home - but huge numbers do. It would make a huge dent in pollution and congestion - as well as allowing people to move to other parts of the UK and take advantage of cheaper house prices and better quality of life that would afford.
I've just switched to working from home everyday, and it's fantastic. In a previous job I used to commute over an hr each way (M3/M25/M4) and am thoroughly enjoying having that 2hrs+ a day OF MY OWN TIME back - that's huge. Also not paying for a tank of fuel a week, tyres, depreciation etc is significant.
My previous employer had no good reason for not letting people work from home (I do the same job now, just for a different company), they just had a weird "we prefer people to be in the office" mentality.
"The big issue is that a couple of years ago scientific consensus was that diesel was cleaner than petrol." (Seems easier to do quotation marks than the provided function...😉)
The actual issue is that up until recently, Saudi Arabia didn't have the capability to refine and supply the global requirement and..... price, of diesel oil all on it's own. It does now.
Theres no doubting the noxious gases and output from burning diesel oil, it's just that they didn't want to peddle that line as its a relatively cheap fossil fuel and the people love fossil fuels and more to the point, a few people make a lot of money out of fossil fuels. We just need to be careful who those people are.
The programme is over there people, spit spot and get with it.
Also seems to be the case now that Diesel engines just don’t last very long.
Gone are the days if 100k it’s just run in
100k now on a Euro6 engine and your worrying about DPF putting fuel into the oil, egr valves clogging and turbos about to die
^ I think the diesel issues of dpf/egr/turbo is down to so many having been sold for short journeys and used inappropriately.
Can’t remember being a petrol taxi
In London at least, once you pass 6pm every 2nd car is a Prius taxi.
noticing it in my town too, haven’t been in a diesel taxi for a long time now.
I needed a large estate. My choice was diesel, bigger diesel or a super sports.petrol version. That is the core of the problem.
Skoda Superb comes with a 1.4 tsi petrol option?
100k now on a Euro6 engine and your worrying about DPF putting fuel into the oil, egr valves clogging and turbos about to die
Engines last forever when looked after these days. It wasn't that long ago you were lucky to get 100k miles out of a car.
100k miles has never been 'just run in' for a car though. You hear it a lot. And it might be true of a 3 year old high miler that's sat on the M1 day in and day out. But on an older car you're likely going to have years of mistreatment and the deterioration/corrosion of component parts which naturally happens over time. Fair enough, diesels have some common component parts which are vulnerable to these factors, but cars are probably still more reliable than ever.
hybrid electric cargo bicycle for the last few miles or delivered in advance in electric van.
Cities need to change.
It would take a massive shift to get anywhere near this point on a large scale, but I'm a strong believer that a better world exists with far fewer cars. We're so used to it, it's often something we barely notice anymore, but being outside (and sometimes inside) anywhere near a road can be quite an unpleasant experience.
Whilst I was driving in this morning in ECO MODE I realised that my car also has a big button marked 4WD.
Inspired by this thread, I pressed it to see what it did and you won't believe what happened next .....
4WD ECO!
That's right, people.....I'm rocking the double ECO.
Now that I'm a full on defender of the environment, I thought I had better tackle global warming head on so I put on my air con full blast and opened all the windows.
That ought to help cool the planet.
'Mon the rhinos!
I've got a vehicle with a diesel engine - it does 2.5mpg (yes - two point five, not 25) what do I win?
That’s right, people…..I’m rocking the double ECO.
And Fife clearly measures in km, not miles. Weirdo's.
And Fife clearly measures in km, not miles. Weirdo’s.
Not my picture. Mine is in miles, because they're MOAR ECO!
Weird though, I have been in Fife a fair bit recently ......
I thought you were a Fifer?*
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*If not, I sincerely apologise for casting such an aspersion on your character and genetic make up...
No. My parents weren't even cousins or anything.
Deepest, darkest North Lanarkshire is where i'm at.
Deepest, darkest North Lanarkshire is where i’m at.
Ah, more this then.
Just returned my diesel Civic (eco 6 with button that said Eco and had a leaf) and waiting for my petrol Leon turning up. Saving the environment one step at a time, 120bhp to 300bhp is the planet's karma reward for me I guess. Let's not mention 60mpg down to 25ish mpg!
Feel even better about my 4x4 too, 4.7 V8 that uses a lot of petrol and not a drop of that nasty diesel! Before anyone tuts at me, it hardly turns a wheel and runs on LPG, it also helped keep people moving in the snow last winter.
With the limited amount of oil that's still available there must be a pretty big implication in switching everyone to petrol again (not to mention the hole in the ozone layer I can only assume must get worse again as we up the greenhouse gases...). Even the drop of 5mpg across every person switching into a petrol must mean a massive amount more oil consumed in the UK every year and more tax collected as well.
switching everyone to petrol again
It'll be BEV's as far as the eye can see in 5-10 years time.
