Forum menu
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540632/Convicted-murderers-who-were-set-free-to-kill.html
teej, i answered you...yes i would.
druidh
answer my question please.
How about [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Nickell_murder_case ]Colin Stagg[/url]
Stitched up like a kipper for a murder he did not commit. Clearly innocent as Robert Napper has now been convicted for it.
A brutal crime. He would surely have fitted your criteria for being hung.
So Ton, if you read that muddy and confusing Mail article carefully, 3 murders by released, convicted murders over a period of 6 years
Quite a few indeed.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/18/prisoner-hodgson-murder-quashed-miscarriage ]27 Years[/url]
teej, shit happens mate..
shall i reel off my list of mass murderers again...
all those poor relative left, and peter, and rose and dennis and donald..............all tucked up in their nice cosy paid for by us cells...
shame on you..
I'm not prepared to pull the lever myself, can't ask someone else to do it for me.
And as previously mentioned Stefan Kisko. An absolutely tragic case.
He was convicted of raping and murdering 11 yr old Lesely Molseed. Ons small problem... he did not, and could not have done it.
Do you think mass murderers would be deterred by a death sentence?
JacksonPollock
i agree mate..terrible.
how many people did shipman do in tho??
Do you think mass murderers would be deterred by a death sentence?
no mate, but why should we pay to keep them..
Why should we pay? The keep Esselgruntlfuttock in a job 🙂
my cousin is a prison warder at monster mansion...
he looks after some nice residents..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/05/31/baby-p-killer-s-cushy-cell-inside-monster-mansion-115875-21402275/
Shoot the Bastards ton
Trouble is they need to be over 100% proved to kill someone
but even last year the Police got caught out trying to convict
an inocent man for a crime he had not done.
what the Police had done was to finger print the guy and found
that a small part of his finger print resembled the whole finger
print taken fron the scene, then the Police enlarged a small part of the guys finger print to match the suspects finger print.
This even went to Crown court on the strength of the made up finger print.
Yeehaa! Thanks skidartist! At the moment though, I don't work with moiderers ex or otherwise, & as for [i]and use their organs for donation and make some use out of them[/i] you wouldn't want them, even on your deathbed.
this bloke is one of the nice residents too.
should we keep him locked up till he dies or should we end it for him
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maudsley
Where is Esselgruntlfuttock?
he must have an opinion on this one.
Ton - have you been in a prison? They are not nice places and loosing your liberty is horrible.
So Ton - define how you can hang those people and not hang Stefan Kisko, Stephen Downing, Colin Stagg - or are you prepared to let these innocent men be hung?
I was in court on one of the days of Shipmans trial(in an observational capacity during my degree). He wasn't in court on that particular day thank god as I'd have probably been held in contempt!
The medical evidence was being put forward to decide what was admissible. What struck me was how robust the system is. Law is tested all the time but still it gets things wrong.
Do you think Shipman wouldn't have killed, for fear of the death penalty? He displayed psychopathic behaviors. His staggering arrogance put him beyond the rationale of the general populous. We (as a society) should have learned from him in the hope that understanding the mindset of people such as him, can lead to spotting the early warning signs in others to prevent horrific crimes like his from happening again.
He was one of 12 children, born in the Toxteth area of Liverpool, and spent most of his early years in Nazareth House (an orphanage run by nuns) in Crosby, Liverpool. At the age of eight, he was retrieved by his parents and beaten regularly until he was eventually removed from their care by social services.[1] During the late 1960s, as a teenager, Maudsley was a rent boy in London to support his drug addiction. He was finally forced to seek psychiatric help after several suicide attempts. It was during his talk with doctors that he claimed to hear voices telling him to kill his parents.
Yeah lets hang him..
At the risk of once again being looked upon as a racist, nazi or extremist and AFAIK, the BNP manifesto includes the reintroduction of the death penalty as a sentencing option in certain cases.
teej, unfortunatley, yes i have. not proud of it.
Your cousin works in Wakey then Ton? Up to now I've worked in Durham, Frankland (both high security cat A's at the time) & where I am now, which will remain anonymous. When you read security files on SOME inmates, there's no way MANY can think 'aahh, bless, lets give them a second chance' some might, but not the majority.
For what skidartist said, I'll never be out of work even if the death penalty was re-introduced.
TJ may have worked in the prison system but I'll wager he wasn't pounding the landings.
esselgruntfuttock
yes mate, and another at hull.
One thing is whilst the Death Penalty was in place
crime was in no shape or form as it is today!
esselgruntfuttock
Never pounded the landings for sure. Prison nurse. It was enough to have some idea of what happens but not enough to have a deep knowledge
I certainly believe that there are some who need to be removed from society never to re-enter it and some people are irredeemable.
I believe in rehabilitation but I am realistic enough to know for some this is not possible. I have no issue with open ended sentences and I believe our judicial system fails - too many folk get sentences that do nothing - either they need to be and can be rehabilitated and this does not happen - or they can't or wont and need to be removed from society.
However reform of the system is another topic for another day.
teej, lets agree to disagree, i am hungry??
Grantway - murder is at a 20 yr low at the moment - the rate has been steadily dropping for this time.
Why? I have no idea but I guess its increasing prosperity and better treatment of mental illness
Soz TJ, missed your thread while I was (slowly) typing under the affluence of G&T, It's been a hard day again! I'm in a working prison where the vast majority of inmates...work. The majority on my wing see prison as a hinderance & don't find it particularly difficult. Why this is I don't know cos I couldn't do a month's bird never mind a good stretch. Our place is obviously not a bad place to be, 7 channels on the telly, decent visits opportunities, foods not too bad (yes, I have tried it but don't let on!)plenty of time out of cell, staff aren't manic, mostly. & even our several soon to be cat D's say it's not really difficult! May vary from jail to jail & length of sentence etc.
Any questions, form a queue.
ton - Memberteej, lets agree to disagree,
I have no problem with that - your opinion is yours and at least you accept the logic that if you have capital punishment innocents will be hung.
i am hungry??
Who are you going to eat? The murderers or me? 😯
Who are you going to eat? The murderers or me?
a certain kind of burger....... 😯 😉
esselgruntfuttock
Respect to you. You do a job that many could not.
Interesting that you say your place ain't to bad - but you couldn't do a month.
Pentonville was horrible - thats my main experience. One thing I found both interesting and good to see was the quality of the prison officers. I was expecting a bunch of real arses but on the whole they were decent blokes wanting to do a decent days work with a touch of humanity - and some were very good indeed.
Right - beer o'clock
laters peeps
Mine's another G&T then, rest day tomorrow, thank ****!
LOL! Just like to answer TJ.
[b]On this I am a new testament man - "turn the other cheek" not an old testament man " an eye for an eye"[/b]
Jesus!(in Spanish accent please) Are you trying to be a martyr? I hope you have not confused yourself with Stockholm syndrome? Compassionate yes but martyr slapping cheek and all that is not right.
Eye for an eye? They are only between those people who are the victims of heinous crime so those people who protest against the punishment is in fact being "compassionate" for the wrong reason when the case is clear.
Fair enough if the case is not clear and you protest but if you protest against all cases there must be something wrong.
Some good arguments from TJ as usual and highly entertaining but somehow something is not right.
[b]Now you answerAre you prepared for one of your family to be put to death after a miscarriage of justice?[/b]
If it is a miscarriage of justice no. As you say 'miscarriage' and who would let that happens without protest?
🙄
Chewk. Look at Stephen Downing, Stefan Kismo. Colin Stagg. All would have been executed by the eye for an eye folk. all innocent but stitched up
[b]TandemJeremy: "Chewk. Look at Stephen Downing, Stefan Kismo. Colin Stagg. All would have been executed by the eye for an eye folk. all innocent but stitched up[/b]
Yes, it's not perfect but the guilt will be with the people who stitched them up. They too must be brought to justice if they use underhand tactics.
Back to the OP's question, death penalty, Yes or no...
How about an 'opt in' death penalty? If you believe in the death penalty as a deterent, you sign up for it...
Idea being there are 2 differing tarifs for all crimes. The none death penalty tarrif has much longer jail time for all crimes. Where as the death penaly tarrif has much reduced jail time for minor offences , but more serious crimes are punishable by death.
Idea shamelessly nicked from Mark Thomas's tour eariler this year.
Base Ball Bat works
chewkw - MemberTandemJeremy: "Chewk. Look at Stephen Downing, Stefan Kismo. Colin Stagg. All would have been executed by the eye for an eye folk. all innocent but stitched up
Yes, it's not perfect but the guilt will be with the people who stitched them up. They too must be brought to justice if they use underhand tactics.
So your solution to the innocent being killed by the state ios to just keep killing people till all worngs re righted? You know how daft that is dont you]The its not perfect but means we kill people who have not committed any crimes BTW.
Junkyard - MemberSo your solution to the innocent being killed by the state ios to just keep killing people till all worngs re righted? You know how daft that is dont you]The its not perfect but means we kill people who have not committed any crimes BTW.
No. It means doing a thorough investigation before sentencing and not some underhand tactics.
😯
Chewkw.
So how are you going to stop the misscaiges of justice then?
You don't think the above cases were "thoroughly investigated"
doing a thorough investigation before sentencing and not some underhand tactics.
so you propose the Status Quo excellent suggestion.
YES
NO
SOMETIMES
How about securing the perimeter of one of the more desolate islands that exist in some number off the coast of the UK, landing the worst of our prison population - the ones with no hope of redemption - in a huge group and set them free to take part in a battle royale type sentence, and then use the threat of this punishment as a future deterrent?
TJ - I respect your well made points however please desist from asking those in favour how they would prevent miscarriages of justice until you can say how [b]you would prevent reoffending by those released under the current system[/b].
Can we at least agree to sterilise them? 😆
Whilst money isn't the driver on this issue, I'd rather provide improved healthcare etc with the money saved from keeping those who have been sentenced never to be released than keep them in some degree of comfort and probably protected into their dotage. That's a no brainer of a choice to me. And to be clear this relates only to those sentenced never ever to be released.
No as people can be framed and I don't trust the police.
How many innocent people have been wrongly convicted and released?
Bloody hard labour though.