[Closed] Dear MOD

sarcasm alert, sarcasm alert

The RAF have a cracking enduro just south of Bracknell, sandy but good.

agreed!!!

my childhood was spent on MOD land out the back of our house. rediscovering it as an adult on the bike has made me a happier person.

No sarcasm!

Last night instead of riding back to the hotel from work, I rode 200 yards up the road and then spent an hour dawdling all over the woods, finding loads of new stuff and some cool trails. Made it back to the hotel without going near a public highway until the last 1/4 mile 🙂

Also saw loads of other folk (nearer the houses) doing same, on bikes, with dogs, running, or just walking.. and stopped for a chat with three kids who presumably lived in the houses backing onto the land. They wanted to know how much my bike cost...

Molegrips +1

I spend loads of time on the MOD land around Aldershot/Farnborough & am very pleased for it

I might've seen you last night actually since that's where I was.

Dear MOD

Thanks as per what Molgrips said, but when you've been playing with claymores or suchlike, please take away the thin, black, tough, hard to see, tripwires as they can make a right mess if they get caught up in your back wheel, then dragged through your rear mech and round the chain.

they really should make those trip wires easier to see 😐

I wasnt out last night 🙁

Often are a few of us on a Tuesday night probably not next week but as the nights draw in we should be out more 🙂

Drop me an email if you want me to let you know when we are out.. don't expect too fast though

+1

Loads of quality riding on the ranges/heathland 🙂

Thanks GJ, will do 🙂

I seem to remember a documentary in which they commented that trying to observe unspoilt England is almost impossible except for on MOD land as a lot of it is left to run completely wild with only the odd landy or tank puttering by once in a while.

The bit near Aldershot used to be nice woodland however a few years ago they decided to take it back to heath. It is now covered in bloody gorse - which I understand is not a native species so thats a huge backward step as far as I can tell.

Technically it is the MoD (small "o"), and I am sure that they really like having all the nice woodland for their own uses too.

As the man said, mostly unspoilt apart from the occasional steely-eyed dealer of death running round it.

I rode near Aldershot last night - there's lots of woodland. However a lot of it is most definitely not unspoiled. They seem to like driving tanks and jeeps and things all over bits of it, resulting in enormous swathes looking like building sites. Those bits are not good riding, unless you are on an MX bike 🙂

They seem to like driving tanks and jeeps and things all over bits of it,

Shocking behaviour. Worse than green-laners and they think they have some sort of right to destroy vast swathes of the countryside.

Can't say that I have ever seen tanks on that bit. An occasional truck, the best thing was one of those 6 wheel buggies they had in the monkeys although painted green

I've not seen tanks either, I just assumed that level of destruction could only be caused that way 🙂

+1 MOD

not monkeys, Gee, banana splits.

Ok, who else has the Banana Splits theme in their head now? 🙄

Not me, I have 'Thank you for the music' by Abba in there.

Double post. So here's some light music:

So I said thankyou for the music, the songs I'm singing
Thanks for all the joy I'm bringing..

Surely if it's MoD land then it's paid for by the taxpayers, therefore it's our land? 😈 At least that's my stock answer when people ask me if I'm/they're allowed to ride there (Another user of the bit twixt Aldershite & Fleet)

I am pretty sure there are no issues with access. As the law stands only the armys office representative (ie site manager) can tell you to get off & I have chatted to him while out riding.

Banana Splits - quite right, I had the 12 inch single in banana yellow when I was a kit (singles were before cd's for any young peeps out there)

A few years ago on Sealand ranges on the wirral, climbed over the normal height gate, and started cycling along the path, about half a mile on, an Army landrover came screaming up quite fast, headlights on and a few squaddies inside, told me to stop, they said there was live fireing going on, and i had better jump in the back, remembering the old story about getting in strange vans with men i refused and said what happens if i dont.

They just pointed at the rifles they had, and said we will shoot you then 😯 , so i jumped in, nice chaps and a free lift, oh and i didnt get shot, just look out for a red flag flying as a warning of live firing.

cd's for any young peeps

CDs? Aww, bless.. old feller can't keep up 🙂

But yes, all this land around Aldershot and Fleet etc (apart from a bit the other side of Farnborough that is well signposted) has no live firing and you can go wherever you like.

Its not the keeping up that worries me, its not knowing what I have forgotten thats the stressful bit.

Theres also a live fire area at Minley on the Hawley Lake side. Once again well signposted

Dear MOD,

Please thank the RAF for staging a personal air show for us during our ride in the Lake District today. The Hawks and Typhoons were most entertaining. 🙂

The Hawks and Typhoons were most entertaining

We saw a couple of Tornado GR.4s while we were mooching round Ambleside, & then a couple of Tucanos on the drive home (through the Howgill Fells as the M6 was shut 🙄 )

Andy

I've not seen tanks either, I just assumed that level of destruction could only be caused that way

[img] [/img]
[b]Mastiff[/b]

[img] [/img]
[b]Wolfhound[/b]

[img] [/img]
[b]Husky[/b]

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[b]Warthog[/b]

Maybe it was one of these....

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[b]Viking[/b] how could I forget this one

That would be cool, I am probably there at the wrong time though when the drivers are in the bar 🙁

Often get soldiers on exercise though, think it pisses them off quite a bit when they are on sentry duty, eyes nice and used to the dark when half a dozen mtbers come through shining lights in their eyes

You forgot Jackal

[img] [/img]

and Coyote

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[img] [/img]

and not forgeting Ridgback which entered service in Afghanistan Jun 09.

They also let us play with (almost) all of Salisbury Plain! Wooo!

Another user of the Aldershot/Fleet/Farnborough MoD play area.

I understand that they cut down a lot of the tree's based on recommendations from English Nature to create more bio-diverse environment (Hence the cattle). Also to make sure that additional flying could happen safely from Farnborough!

as much as i chuckle when the other-half notices cows and turns into a 6 year old again... the gates do somewhat stop the flow of riding.

Agreed, jolly decent of them to provide the enormous playground/nature reserve of Salisbury Plain, with only the odd mild shelling to contend with. We get real tanks there not those noncy APCs, and better yet helicopter gunships 😀

Seems when I move to Heath end on the edge of the Farnborough/Aldershot/Fleet MOD land in 2 days, I will be in good company.

Any recommended routes or special trails I should know about?

Follow your nose is my recommendtation. Take a GPS and make sure you cover all corners of the areas. Trails are quite dense.

brassneck - Member
Agreed, jolly decent of them to provide the enormous playground/nature reserve of Salisbury Plain, with only the odd mild shelling to contend with. We get real tanks there not those noncy APCs, and better yet helicopter gunships

also the odd few blokes jumping out of perfectly serviceable aircraft 8)

Seems when I move to Heath end on the edge of the Farnborough/Aldershot/Fleet MOD land in 2 days, I will be in good company

If you have a GPS you could do far worse than download the Merida Brass Monkeys course profile from last Dec'/Jan', it's a great course that'll show you a great mix of tracks in a relatively small area.

I am pretty sure there are no issues with access. As the law stands only the armys office representative (ie site manager) can tell you to get off & I have chatted to him while out riding.

Not exactly true. Was discussed in the attached thread, and in brief the byelaws say we shouldn't use these lands (edit - OK, we can but only the main tracks). Any service person can order you off, and can if I read it properly confiscate your bike summarily.

In reality I suspect as per the other thread, if we are sensible and avoid conflict with training exercises and don't litter, build silly jumps for people to hurt themselves on etc. then you are [i]unlikely[/i] to run into issues, but them's the rules as they stand.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/trails-round-pirbrightdeepcut

MOD.UK "http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F7878CF7-499F-4F55-AF7E-F14D7A8D3620/0/aldershot_district_military_lands.pdf"

easy, get yourself a MOD90*** and no more access issues

**this does involve signing your life away

Hmm, this would be interesting legally. I wonder if, in law, one would be able to claim some kind of precedent given the fact that no-one's cared about cycling on this MoD land for 30 years, and it's clear that people do it all the time.

However some kind of petition would be appropriate, no? Should we set something up?

personally... i dont think its worth it molgrips, they dont bother us cyclists and i think it'd take some really idiotic cyclists to bother them! by attempting to swing an already ballanced relationship in the favour of cyclists it might put the MoD's back up and make them start thinking hard about people riding on their land.

also i think because there isnt any massive jumps etc it doesnt attract the kind of riding crowd that would cause trouble... just fine respectful gentlemen like ourselves 😉

I would like to petition to remove the byelaw prohibiting cyclists. I know that they basically let us cycle on there, but I don't like the idea that it is actually illegal and they could confiscate my bike if they decide to change their minds 🙁

if you cant out-ride a bullet then you're not man enough to ride in the woods... i thought that was common knowledge 😉

I use the MoD land between Fleet and Aldershot regularly too and agree it is great to have all this land on our doorstep.

Wouldn't bother with a petition molgrips, as others have stated there seems to be a very good understanding between the general public and the MoD over access so why rock the boat? If something like that did make them think about locking down access it would affect a lot of people, not just those on bikes. The whole place is usually very busy with dog walkers, families, runners, etc. and it'd be a shame if access was removed. I'd hate to think my kids wouldn't be able to explore over there when they're old enough.

The only folks they seem to take exception with that I've witnessed is motor/quad bikes. Haven't seen one for a few years, but they used to have a couple of blokes on MTBs patrolling the area. Always friendly and ready to stop and natter and never once suggested I shouldn't be there.

The area where you were sounds like Caesars Camp, they do a lot of driver training over there - hence the very steep and rutted hilly sections.

As a side note, the lookout point just across from Caesars Camp is a great spot for watching the Farnborough airshow. You can see the Wembley arch and Canary Wharf from there on a clear day. This year a mate and I went up there during the week and got chatting to one of the folks from Qinetic who was there operating their super duper radar/telescope tracking thingummy which sends telemetry back to HQ to ensure the planes stay on the correct flight path. Very interesting and enlightening, certainly better than an afternoon in the office!

As above, the brass monkeys route is good. Also the whoopy woos - they start at the top of star hill and run parallel with the A325 for about 1/2 mile.

Crossing Bourley Road gives more trails around the side or Rushmoor arena and in the Eelmore plain area (there is probably another Brass Monkeys route for some of this).

You can also get over to Fleet Pond and from there to the Gorrick 12:12 course.

Lots of little unofficial trails about and constantly being revised and new ones built

My uncle and his mates used to go around the woodland on Ash Ranges years before there were any mountain bikes, it must have been in the 1950's. From talking to him they used single speed bikes, much like grass track bikes. Up until a few years ago you could still see the oval track they made in the heather.

>Wouldn't bother with a petition molgrips, as others have stated there seems to be a very good understanding between the general public and the MoD over access so why rock the boat?

+1

Game on, I must confess that I have not been riding very often in the last year or so, I am hoping that a load of new trails to explore will inspire me to get out and ride every day.

Just remembered - at the top of that area (Fleet/Aldershot), by the petrol station and water tower(?) on the A287 there's a BMX track (including starting gate). If that's not a sign of tolerance towards bikers I'm not sure what is 🙂

I think the fact that the army cycling union designed & built a mtb track for use in the brass monkeys shows they are ok with it.
Whatever, I have been going up there on & off for 10 years and never been told not to ride.

SO back to the OP's view.

Many thanks to the MoD 🙂

also the odd few blokes jumping out of perfectly serviceable aircraft

It's OK I've got Watchdog on them. Shocking disregard for Health and Safety.

If you happen to be one of said jumpers could you ask your friends to keep it down a bit overnight, you're scaring the puppy 😀

I did wonder not so much about a petition but about a letter to the local MP asking a question. She could then ask the Minister for Defence who does have the power to grant permission. Could be worded as part of the daft laws review / increase in healthy activity, etc.

IMHO; The laws were written before MTB'ing was 'invented' (due note to Richmar's uncle, etc.) and the interpretation of what the bylaw means by suitable tracks would be different as a result. But as per the other thread, if there is an increase in less desirable usage, or worse lawsuits, then the MoD may be forced to take action affecting all of us.

I think the fact that the army cycling union designed & built a mtb track for use in the brass monkeys shows they are ok with it. {JV note, Gorrick use these areas regularly too}

This is a difficult one; firstly as events they are insured so any liabilities, etc. would be covered by insurances / entry form disclaimers. Secondly; just because an estate is opened once or twice a year for controlled access doesn't make it OK to wander in for the rest of it. I don't think Michael Eavis will allow you to roll up to Pilton Farm, get your tents out and put a few bands on just because he did the same a few weeks ago?

I agree it shows a degree of tolerance but if that dissipates because of lawsuits, litter and silly jump spots.... that's a different matter.

The biggest section of built trail I know of is at Tunnel Hill where there's a small amount of mini-shore built, including a see-saw. It all has Army Cycling Union stencilled on the side...

I agree if nothing happens then say nothing, but if they are (as rumoured) starting to grumble about bikers then action may be helpful.

TBH I can't imagine any biker getting far with a lawsuit, since cycling is illegal there and clearly stated as such. Perhaps that byelaw will work in our favour after all, in a perverse way.

brassneck - Member

also the odd few blokes jumping out of perfectly serviceable aircraft

It's OK I've got Watchdog on them. Shocking disregard for Health and Safety.

If you happen to be one of said jumpers could you ask your friends to keep it down a bit overnight, you're scaring the puppy

although if you catch us doing the night decents, try and get as near the DZ as possible and wait for the " argghhh fu[k" "shiiiiiiit" "steer away you [unt" it's most funny if you manage to walk away. will try and keep the noise down.

Just remembered - at the top of that area (Fleet/Aldershot), by the petrol station and water tower(?) on the A287 there's a BMX track (including starting gate).

Thought this was long gone?

The last thing anyone wants or needs is permission - as soon as permission is granted then any possible future claim for common rights of access will be shafted for eternity.

The MOD have not raised any issues or problems with cycling activity, I would strongly, STRONGLY advise anyone to avoid rocking the boat unless and until MOD do anything to actually ban riders.

Although.. pants seemed convinced on the other thread that there was an issue...?

Molgrips I would say that it best to keep sssssssssshhhhhh on about that wood stuff..

There is no need to rock the boat just keep more ssssshhhh about the area and trails and if the army are out and about try and keep out of there way ''can be hard sometimes.'' When ever we come across the army at night I ask everyone to cover there lights to.

Enjoy the trails that those who know are lucky to have on are door step..

Simwit - Member

Thought this was long gone?

as has been said, rock the boat and you'll loose everything.

It would be far to easy to close off all the area's on health and saftey grounds - live firing, unexpoded ordnance, vehicles travelling at night without lights etc etc, just let it be. If you get stuck one day with a closed gate, it's probably for a very good reason - just let it be and go back another time, or find somewhere else to play.

Jay +1

Yes, Molgrips, he did, but as someone who's been riding in the same area, and the land further south round Bordon - Pants' comments that "The Wardens and Police are starting to take names of MTBers with a view to prosecution" are the only [u]rumours[/u] I've ever seen or heard that theres a problem, and unless and until I've heard it confirmed then I'm confident that rocking the boat is an idea beyond the realms of stupidity - if you want to know why then read up on the legal concept of 'nec vi, nec clam, nec precario' and on the judgement in Bakewell v Brandwood.

I'm confident that rocking the boat is an idea beyond the realms of stupidity

Alright, alright.. we're not all lawyers.. and I was only discussing our best interests...

Another Bordon (Oxney Moss) rider here. I've been riding the wood here as a member of the forces and as a civvie with no problems for the past 10 years. Nowadays I ride here in my lunch hour and the odd evening after work. I've ridden through Gurkah camps, NBC exercises and bergen marches. The Mod personnel have always been polite and I've done as much as I can not to interfere with their activities. Unfortunately trip wires and other by products of the military activities that have taken part on their training areas are part of the price of access.

yep i to have to say thanks MoD as there is a big trainning ground in Colchester and it's my local loop and have no probs with the Army only the odd heavly armed bush to contend with(para's stationed in Colchester) consists of one range which can't use when red flags are flying and three interlinked woods and best of all bylaws don't apply so if i like the look of a trail i can use it yippee 😀

Best just leave it all well alone. Ride by all means don't build dangerous stuff and be courteous towards to army when you bump into them!

Anything like petitions etc. is a silly idea as it heightens a profile that should be kept as low as possible.

Molgrips, dont get me wrong, not having a go at all - just that this stuff really is more complex than it first seems.

don't build dangerous stuff

This cannot be stressed enough, every single time I heard of landowners "cracking down on" mountainbikers in my IMBA days, it was instigated due to illegal "extreme" trailbuilding, ie, pathetic, poorly built, badly designed and sited downhill/freeride courses. I did not receive a single landowner or local authority complaint about "XC" routes

better still, don't build at all. There's already tonnes of heritage stuff, either natural, or as a result of the various races over the years. Leave new stuff to the authorised people, Gorrick and ACU.

There is a Gorrick race in the next few months on TH, will be more in the spring using at a guess TH, Frith Hill and Porridgepot, 3 ACU Brass Monkeys over the winter at Rushmoor, Ash, and Tweseldown..... even if each of these uses mainly heritage stuff there's always a few new bits which should satiate the need for new XC building.

spent years MTB over Salisbury Plan and never had any access problems. We all of course keep out of the danger areas but thats just common sense. unless you want to be deleted from the gene pool that is 😈

molegrips dancing on a pin head - lifes too short

molegrips dancing on a pin head - lifes too short

Eh?