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[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32697212 ]Snidey whiney cockbag outburst here[/url]
Personally i think Ed Milliband did not take the Labour Party far enough to the left for me to ever consider voting Labour but apparently David considers that they need to build on [i]New Labour[/i] and the [i]Tony Blair[/i] years.
Do you really David?, you're a snidey little backstabbing cockbag whom i have an intense dislike for as you remind me of Blair, but i expect we will see you surface in UK politics at some point in the next 4 years.
The whole thing of political parties changing their views just to get elected gets on my wick. Stick to your principles or join another party if the one you're in doesn't suit you!
I'd rather Derek Hatton and the militants than new labour. But saying that, I'd rather new labour than Dave and all his Eton educated toffs.
Renationalise everything. Shareholders are the root of all evil in my eyes.
somafunk - MemberSnidey whiney cockbag outburst here
Personally i think Ed Milliband did not take the Labour Party far enough to the left for me to ever consider voting Labour but apparently David considers that they need to build on New Labour and the Tony Blair years.
Do you really David?, you're a snidey little backstabbing cockbag whom i have an intense dislike for as you remind me of Blair, but i expect we will see you surface in UK politics at some point in the next 4 years.
Regardless of everything you've said, he would have won more votes for his party than Ed since he doesn't come across like a epicene, lisping, IT consultant with all the charisma and leadership qualities of a wet lettuce.
Differing political views = snidey?
I know who's the whiner on this thread.
The whole thing of political parties changing their views just to get elected gets on my wick
It's democratic. Give the people what they want - that's the whole point.
It's democratic. Give the people what they want - that's the whole point.
This!
It's the essential truth of politics - if you dont represent the beliefs and wishes of the electorate, then you will forever remain a voice in the wilderness!
Like it or not, You can do f*** all from the opposition benches.
Has someone turned off the swear filter?
molgrips - MemberIt's democratic. Give the people what they want - that's the whole point.
That's the point of voting to choose between parties. It's not the entire point of having a political party.
I thought you'd be kept far too busy with your new job [i]Al's coffee shop reports[/i] to bother with such a thread as this,
I know who's the whiner on this thread
Yep…..we know too so be a good chap and close the door on your way out,
While I don't think they should be going back to champagne socialism he did sort of have a point Here,
...David Miliband said there was "absolutely no point in blaming the electorate" for the election result.
"They didn't want what was being offered," he said...
Can't really argue with that can you...
LOL, bit upset there?
It's not so much what he said (alright…it is) but rather they way he comes across on the various interviews i've seen where he almost manages to suppress a grin from the left hand corner of his mouth and his the way his eyes light up when he mentions mistakes/shortcomings.
He's not one to be trusted in my consideration. But then who do you place trust in, and how do you formulate that trust on someone you will most likely never meet?, i guess it's impossible to truly judge on character alone but it's a good place to form a basis for an opinion.
LOL, bit upset there?
nope, I'm just perplexed as to your thought process (and the outcome) before you post a reply.
how do you formulate that trust on someone you will most likely never meet?, i guess it's impossible to truly judge on character alone but it's a good place to form a basis for an opinion.
Indeed.
I got the feeling that he is enjoying his current job to be bothered with internal labour party politics anymore
Why shouldn't he be extended his moment of schadenfreude after bis brother and the party machine screwed him over
It's not like he didn't warn right from the start that what happened on Thursday was inevitable, it's also not like he was on his own - Mandelson, Blair, Dan Hodges etc. have been saying this for years, it seems now that behind the scenes Lord Sugar was saying much the shame too - in the end they were all proven right!
I don't know why David Miliband's opinion are always treated with such importance, apart from the obvious reason that the Tory press like him of course.
He was MP for only 12 years and he wasn't a particularly outstanding minister.
Why his opinion should be valued so highly and above so many other Labour MPs I really don't know.
Likewise Peter Mandelson whose utterances are treated like little pearls of wisdom despite the fact that he is a failed politician who had to be given the unelected post of European Commissioner after resigning in disgrace not just once but twice, ffs.
But again the Tory press likes the man who is "intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich", so the failed politician who likes to regularly criticise the Labour Party is given all the publicity that he seeks.
he doesn't come across like a epicene, lisping, IT consultant
1. Ta, didn't know what epicene meant, now I do.
2. OI! I'M AN IT CONSULTANT!
Kindly thtop inthulting uth! 🙂
Perhaps it's because they won elections?
Really somafunk?
You are actulay saying there's something going on here other that not liking what I say and finding something completely unrelated to flame me for?
🙄
you're a snidey little backstabbing cockbag
Surely that's what David should have said to Ed after the leadership election in 2010?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_%28UK%29_leadership_election,_2010
New rules for this leadership contest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_leadership_election,_2015
And how far left wing do the Labour party have to go to get your vote somafunk as no "left wing" Labour party has had a sniff at winning an election for decades?
Isn't there a Venn diagram on Twitter somehwere about this? 🙂
It's democratic. Give the people what they want - that's the whole point.
Could not agree less.
The point of politics is to gain power to shape the nation to the philosophy of your desire, not to obtain power at all costs. I want political parties to have empassioned debates about their beliefs and then when they decide the party line to persuade the voters their vision for the nation is the best for the nation. I want politicians to be prepared for power but not diatorted for power. A thinking politician is one that can be persuaded to change their beliefs but one that changes their beliefs for the sake of popularity is a waste of skin.
yip, if you want to be a tory, join the friggin tories.shortbread_fanylion - Member
The whole thing of political parties changing their views just to get elected gets on my wick. Stick to your principles or join another party if the one you're in doesn't suit you!
Labour are gubbed, they have no clue.
The point of politics is to gain power to shape the nation to the philosophy of your desire
You can't shape anything without being elected!
But what's the point in shaping it to something that does not represent what you think is right? The only point would be if being in power was the primary objective. That does not mean you can't try to be persuasive - your role should be to win the voters over to your way of thinking not to blow in the wind.
Of course you can. You can set the agenda.
And an effective opposition can have massive effect.
I was quite pleased to see DM pop-up with a big-fat [i]I TOLD YOU SO[/i] for the labour party.
Considering the circumstances around the 2010 leadership contest, I think he's been pretty dignified about the whole thing - I think he at least deserved this one small poke.
The sad truth is that Blairism has afforded many people who have drifted to the right through wealth, success or just a plain old hardening of the political arteries the delusion that they are somehow still on the “left”.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2015/may/07/labour-risks-failing-the-english-just-like-it-did-the-scottish ]Irvine Welsh in the Graun[/url]
I'm increasingly middle-aged and increasingly rich, but I still find this stuff pretty easy: Labour is my party. It is not the party that promotes my economic interests. Those will look after themselves very nicely for the moment. I don't need to be in the Labour party, working to convert the Labour party into a(nother) voice for affluent lawyers.
🙂
It is. These are politicians we are taking about after all. Sociopaths that crave power.The only point would be if being in power was the primary objective
You are actulay saying there's something going on here other that not liking what I say and finding something completely unrelated to flame me for?
It's all about you Al, it's always all about you 😆
It is. These are politicians we are taking about after all. Sociopaths that crave power.
I suspect you are right that the number of conviction politicians is at an all time low, especially in the main parties (no point in being a power hungry sociopath in the greens after all). I also suspect we as a general public get the politicians we deserve if we are not capable of seeing through the slick, sound bite heavy win at all cost merchants we seem to like to vote in.
ve if we are not capable of seeing through the slick, sound bite heavy win at all cost merchants we seem to like to vote
Yeah the Labour Party got the leadership it deserved
Sensible interview from a sensible bloke. He would be primeminister today if it wasn't for the unions.
Regardless of everything you've said, he would have won more votes for his party than Ed since he doesn't come across like a epicene, lisping, IT consultant with all the charisma and leadership qualities of a wet lettuce.
Maybe, but while CallMe and his snooty pals at Oxford were trashing restaurants and burning money in front of beggars, Ed Miliband was doing something useful.
Considering the circumstances around the 2010 leadership contest
which were ?
Sometimes it's about what you are doing not what you have done, the class warfare distraction is one of the reasons the far left don't really get it some days.
The thing that gets me is just how closely they're linked to American Politics...
Ed Miliband spent time at Harvard with John Kerry
Both Labour and Conservative election campaigns were run by Obama aides
The thing that gets me is just how closely they're linked to
Honestly if you saw the places I have been and who I've been in the same country as it would scare you to death, I once nearly had my foot trod on by a Princess.
It's also good that people get to know how allies and adversaries think.
Who you've been in the same country as is a touch tenuous all told...
And thankfully I'm not the type who is easily scared.
But if you fancy a bit of further understanding of how deeply Labour's campaign manager, David Axelrod is linked to Obama, [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Axelrod ]here's a swift education[/url]
The Tories [s]campaign manager[/s] adviser Jim Messina is equally [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Messina_%28political_staffer%29 ]planted firmly in Obama's pocket[/url]
Both Labour and Conservative election campaigns were run by Obama aides
The Labour one wasn't really according to the FT he only set foot in this country about 3 times.
People talk about conviction politics but that is dead. Politics like everything else is now being run by the data guys, think Sky's marginal gains approach. A big chunk of the Tories win was due to better tactical analysis on the ground, and being able to respond quickly to whether messages were popular or not. Obviously picking a leader that wasn't a complete liability also helped. 😆
[quote=jivehoneyjive said]
The Tories campaign manager Jim Messina
I thought he was an adviser and Crosby was running the show ?
Yep political people who specialise in running campaigns come and get some work at a rich election while there isn't an election going on in the US. It probably helps that they speak English. Probably one of your weaker conspiracies there. Most people in that end of politics will move round and jump between jobs especially if they are good, hope the Labour guy got paid well
The Labour one wasn't really according to the FT he only set foot in this country about 3 times.
Similarly Jim Messina was based in the US whilst the campaign was underway, but nonetheless, both he and Axelrod were key players...
There were of course [url= http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/british-elections-jim-messina-david-axelrod-117759.html ]many others from US politics involved behind the scenes[/url]
I think I'm with the poster that said it's basically him popping up to say "I told you so"- Labour lost the 2015 election in 2010 when they picked the wrong brother. They either had to man up and go full left Old Labour and stand up for their voters or keep on keeping on with New Labour, not whatever this weird Tory Light without Austerity thing was.
An interesting take nabbed off twitter:
[b]Trident. Rendition. Iraq. That mug. I can't believe people mistook Labour for a left-wing party[/b][img]
[/img]
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-most-embarrassing-part-of-the-election-seeing-people-mistake-labour-for-a-leftwing-party-10237192.html ]Most embarrassing part of the election? Seeing people mistake Labour for a left wing party[/url]