[Closed] "David Cameron is the standout politician of our age"

Perhaps he means standout for all the wrong reasons.

Considering the state of his opposition, it's not totally inaccurate.

Mr Gove later denied that he was "a tedious end of a bell, hated by colleagues and voters alike".

Yep, ****ing depressing, isn't it?

It's normally what politicians say just befoer they lodge a dagger between the subjects shoulder blades - bit like 'the manager has the total confidence of the board' just before he moves by 'mutual consent'.

Considering the state of his opposition, it's not totally inaccurate

Surely Ed Milliband is the standout politician of our age? Standing out as in "dear god, could it possibly get any worse?"

Being serious I'd say that, love him or hate him, Alex Salmond is the standout politician of recent years. Cameron, Clegg, Milliband and the rest are all pretty much interchangeable IMHO.

The opposition are a bunch of gurning wishy-washy public school types who'd willingly be photographed cuddling an elephant turd in pursuit of a vote, just so long as they didn't have to commit to any actual [i]policies[/i] that might impinge on their friends' desires to make shedloads of cash out of us.

Thing is, you can't even tell a politician's affiliation by the colour of their tie anymore.

You have to say that Farage and Boris are the stand out politicians of our age, mainly for the wrong reasons but they don't half stand out nevertheless

salmond or faridge!

Maybe if you're Gove that would be consistent with your version of reality.

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PJM1974 - Member

The opposition are a bunch of gurning wishy-washy public school types who'd willingly be photographed cuddling an elephant turd in pursuit of a vote, just so long as they didn't have to commit to any actual policies that might impinge on their friends' desires to make shedloads of cash out of us.

Cameron got a lot of stick for that initially too, and I expect that most leaders of the opposition get some or all of it thrown at them at one point or another.

epicsteve - Member
Surely Ed Milliband is the standout politician of our age? Standing out as in "dear god, could it possibly get any worse?"

Being serious I'd say that, love him or hate him, Alex Salmond is the standout politician of recent years. Cameron, Clegg, Milliband and the rest are all pretty much interchangeable IMHO.

But Salmond didn't have to deal with any "real world" issues and even yet I haven't seen much said about stuff like IS, Ebola etc.

I'm sure you'd find that Salmond would like nothing better to being in a position where he is able to contribute to what you regard as "real world issues", in fact I think he organised a referendum to try and do just that...

so the party whip buttered up his bos

This is not news, not accurate and not worth debating,

What next Pope says god is nice?
Wenger wants arsenal to win in football games?

Tbf, Cameron does stand out, as a massive ****.
Gove is just kissing the bosses arse.

He was struggling tbh and eddie had him on the ropes
Not least when asked about his own job

His interpretations of what the result meant was interesting...they are going to win that is what defeat shows

But Salmond didn't have to deal with any "real world" issues

Totally unfair, Salmond has had to deal with important international diplomatic issues like The Megrahi release... Oh 😳

Gove just wants a senior cabinet post and is laying the arse licking ground work ready for the next re-shuffle....

unfortunately he is right.

There are a number of MP's that could be better but choose not to put up with all the crap that goes with it sticking your noggin to far above the parapet.

unfortunately he is right.

In what way does he stand out? He's achieved absolutely nothing of any significance and will be forgotten in no time. Say what you like about Thatcher etc, but she had an enormous affect on society which was changed permanently by her.

Say what you like about Thatcher

Thing is, you can't even tell a politician's affiliation by the colour of their tie anymore.

I'm not too sure you could in the past either - if a solicitor (or more likely advocate) was really thinking of attaining attorney general status, they'd simply pin their colours to the mast of whatever party was likely to be in power in 15 years time..

Thanks she was a ****.

I agree!

He is not outstanding

Outstandingly ineffective, Can't think of a single significant thing he's actually done.

the bar is low, very low...

Can't think of a single significant thing he's actually done.

What about the bedroom tax ? Or bombing Libya ?

Or increasing VAT ?

Or doubling tuition fees ?

Or cutting the top rate of tax ?

Or introducing a benefit cap ?

If you try to list 15 members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet, it quickly becomes quite hard. Especially if you have to put the title next to the name too. In that context, you do end up with a pretty unsatisfactory bunch of stand outs.

And the odd thing, is folk want them to run large parts of the economy. Bizarre. How many would you want running your shop.......?

Alex Salmond is the standout politician of recent years. Cameron, Clegg, Milliband and the rest are all pretty much interchangeable IMHO

Salmond??? Cameron called his bluff on independence, and won. Out of that four Cameron is definitely "standout". Still pretty crap by historic standards, though.

What about the bedroom tax, or bombing Libya?
Or increasing VAT ?
Or doubling tuition fees ?
Or cutting the top rate of tax ?
Or introducing a benefit cap ?

Wow, Have we moved to a presidential system of government with executive powers now?

I was under the impression that all those things were decided on by parliament!

are you claiming that legislation gets proposed that the PM opposes and the PM has no say on what happens in parliament, the queens speech or the govt legislative programme? Weak point

Given where AS started from and where the vote ended [ and AS Got devo max] the historical jury may decide he lost the battle but won the war rather than CMD called his bluff and won.

If you try to list 15 members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet, it quickly becomes quite hard.

There you go footflaps, don't expect much from David Cameron, or any other Prime Minister for that matter, they are just powerless pawns in the legislative system.

At least they are in Z-ll's fantasy world of spin.

😆 at thread title.

What about the bedroom tax, or bombing Libya?
Or increasing VAT ?
Or doubling tuition fees ?
Or cutting the top rate of tax ?
Or introducing a benefit cap ?

All pretty minor things that will be forgotten / changed by the next Parliament etc. Tweaking tax rates here and there by a few % is not significant, it's just tinkering.

You could argue that the bedroom tax was significant in being both economically ineffective yet utterly vindictive to the poor, but again in 2 yeas time no one (other than those evicted by it) will remember it.

Listened to the interview on R4 on the way home from work. Gove is a politician I have little time for after the mess he caused my kids education. That said, Eddie Mares questioning was Eddie Mare at his petty worst and reminded me of why I don't like his interview style. Against Eddies petty non-questions I thought Gove came off 3-2 in front.

Really ? I thought he was very good and pressing him about refusing to say he would go if anyone left to UKIP you could almost feel Goves two brains whirring as he tried to think of the correct spin to give his answers as the many pauses in answers showed.
Gove was fairly non committal in his praise and the pressing there was a bit daft tbh as what else could Give say beyond he is the best whist avoiding confirming he was no Margaret thatcher...hardly a shock revelation to anyone but , as politicians cannot tell us a truth we all know, he could not say it.

All pretty minor things that will be forgotten / changed by the next Parliament etc.

I'm sure many people in Libya will be relieved to hear that. If they are not dead.

I'm sure many people in Libya will be relieved to hear that. If they are not dead.

In the UK no one will remember it. In terms of significance i.e. compared with wars in our generations e.g. Falklands, Iraq I & II, Afghanistan etc, it barely registers on the Give-a-shit scale. Blair had the largest ever peace time demo with the Iraq War; hardly anyone cares about Libya (outside Libya).

Define "our age". I remember when Wilson was in power.

Define "our age". I remember when Wilson was in power.

The original context was 'of our generation', so open to interpretation, but go for a 40 year old (roughly half mean life expectancy).

Oops my bad, 'of our age', but same thing really...

I think Dave has clinched it with this:

"he talked about a bicycle ride but I thought that might involve wearing more lycra than is consistent with re-election."

footflaps - Member
What about the bedroom tax, or bombing Libya?
Or increasing VAT ?
Or doubling tuition fees ?
Or cutting the top rate of tax ?
Or introducing a benefit cap ?

All pretty minor things that will be forgotten / changed by the next Parliament etc. Tweaking tax rates here and there by a few % is not significant, it's just tinkering.

You could argue that the bedroom tax was significant in being both economically ineffective yet utterly vindictive to the poor, but again in 2 yeas time no one (other than those evicted by it) will remember it.

Yeah, nobody will remember being forced to move out of their house because of the bedroom tax.
Or tha increase in the cost of living because or VAT
Or the billions of pound of debt added to young people
You can guarantee top rate tax payers will remember the lower rate once it goes up again
You can guarantee disabled and unemployed people will remember the time they had to live on less money than they used to.

it barely registers on the Give-a-shit scale

You appear to have changed the point you were making, which was : "Can't think of a single significant thing he's actually done".

Bombing a country is significant, whether it registers on the Give-a-shit scale or not.

Likewise your comment : "Blair had the largest ever peace time demo with the Iraq War" doesn't mean that the Iraq War wasn't significant, it was.

Yeah, nobody will remember being forced to move out of their house because of the bedroom tax.
Or tha increase in the cost of living because or VAT
Or the billions of pound of debt added to young people
You can guarantee top rate tax payers will remember the lower rate once it goes up again
You can guarantee disabled and unemployed people will remember the time they had to live on less money than they used to.

can you read?

You could argue that the bedroom tax was significant in being both economically ineffective yet utterly vindictive to the poor, but again in 2 yeas time no one (other than those evicted by it) will remember it.

As for debt, the total UK debt hasn't significantly changed under the coalition, neither has the deficit, so again pretty ineffective.

As for Tax rates and VAT, they go up and down all the time and no one remembers e.g. can you recall when and by how much Labour temporarily lowered VAT by and for? No, neither can I.

You appear to have changed the point you were making, which was : "Can't think of a single significant thing he's actually done".

Bombing a country is significant, whether it registers on the Give-a-shit scale or not.

In the context of standout politician, I don't think he will stand out for it no. Thatcher will always be remembered for the Falklands, Blair for the Iraq war but Cameron for Libya? NB I'd completely forgotten about it already.

It's sad that you equate standout politicians to the wars they have got us into.

Junkyard: it was the "will you quit if there's another UKIP defection where I thought Eddie lost it. Eddie asks VERY loaded questions with a clear baited trap waiting for the novice politician. Gove refused to step into that trap and gave a good retort when Eddie accused him of not giving straight answers.
All in my opinion of course. In contrast I though Andy Burnham gave a fab performance a week or two prior on R4 with candid straight answers to reasonable and probing questions.

Yes i agree there were parts where Gove performed well but it was one of those ding dong affairs without any real discussion.... I thought that was a fair question from Eddie actually and I thought give, skilfully, just ignored it. It showed a lack of confidence tin his prediction IMHO.
R4 does seem to like to trap them rather than let them discuss their views- Today is worse IMHO.

Re CMD - Gove does not think he is a stellar leader no one could but what else can he say? My boss he is pretty average isn't he , its pointless asking him tbh

Interesting how we have divided views on what was good and bad though

I think perhaps we agree more than we realise! There are certain things that you are NEVER going to get a politician to say, so wasting interview time trying to do this just turns the whole thing into pantomime. Of course Gove can't say 100% that more won't defect to UKIP. If he had said this then Eddie would have questioned his "command and grip" on the loyalty of tory MP's...so instead he dances round the question and the whole thing falls to farce.

Again Gove is never going to anything other than 100% loyal in the words he uses about Cameron, so the line of questioning on his failings was never going to trip up or progress anywhere.

There's a real spectrum of R4 interviewers. Some of the better ones save their bullets for points that matter.

The thing is... Dave isn't even a politician. He's a spokesman. An effective one! He has zero interest in policy. His ego just dictated he fulfil his birthright and get the top job.

The man who really pulls the strings is quite happy for him to have the top job. George Osbourne is the real politician. The power behind the throne. Always sat in the background. But it's him who's running the show. Him dictating the agenda. Him who's imposing his idealogical framework on the country, despite not even having a majority.

He's the standout politician of his age. As clever as he is detestable!

The thing is... Dave isn't even a politician. He's a spokesman. An effective one! He has zero interest in policy.

??

Osbourne pulling the strings??? That is definetely a 3?er. He quietly changed policy is response to events and hardly implemented much of what he originally proposed. Then claims his policies have worked. More pushing the strings than pulling them.