I thought most car insurance was knock for knock on claims. Therefore it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is each insurer pays out and it goes on your record and affects your premium. Has this now changed, hence the need for dash cams.
have already lost our rights to any privacy
You know that when you're on the road that's not a private place and you have no right to privacy there, don't you?
They'll be standard equipment soon.
Bails, you’re partially right but it’s all about big data, dash cams could be used to track your location and journeys if connected to the web as the inevitably will be, and that is private information. And at least with current dash cams you still control who you pass the data onto. Dashcams could be just one of many data sources that we’re mindlessly and thoughtlessly ceding away one by one without any legal or commercial protection or control how YOUR data is controlled. For a bunch of people who mistrust and slag off these companies for not paying their fair share of taxes, you seem perfectly happy to trust them with the most intimate details of your life and happily give them access to all that data for them to use as they see fit and sell onto whomever they like.
but like I said, too late now I guess, the ship has already sailed.
They’ll be standard equipment soon.
They are certainly cheap enough and the camera can go to the screen in the car (pretty much all cars now have a screen even just for a radio). However, could say the same about sat nav but the car companies like to charge £400 for that so can't see them giving away cameras on every model.
Dashcams could be just one of many data sources that we’re mindlessly and thoughtlessly ceding away one by one without any legal or commercial protection or control how YOUR data is controlled.
Except that they're not doing that. I'm guessing you don't use a mobile phone or the internet?
We are on about dash cams here....
Not alexa or Siri or ask Google.....those are data harvesters.
already on that slippery slidey slope
IMHO its quite a leap from voluntarily having a dash cam to someone observing everything i do. Could you provide the causal inks between the two events please that make this inevitable
Cyberdyne systems
Of course I use the internet, i’m on here. But we can minimise the proliferation of devices that are capable of giving up yet more of our lives. dashcams are not data harvesters.......yet. It’s just something that concerns me that’s all and the main reason I don’t have one since I can do without one. I have good insurance so not bothered about the process of what to do when or if I have a coming together with someone else on the road....I expect my insurance to take care of that, which is what insurance is for and has done in the past. I just dread the day these things become compulsory as they inevitably will. I can just about control what information I give up over the web via my devices, but it’s getting harder and harder as more and more objects get hooked up to the web covering more and more of our lives.
Go on, this is a discussion where people are offering up their points of view and the question was asked why not have a dash cam, so I offered up an opinion as flawed as it is, but that’s the thing about opinions.....none of them are right or wrong, we each have our own reasons for them.
How long before they’re hooked upto the net and software can glean alsorts of provate information about the way we live our lives.
I'm not sure this argument stands. Dash cams are essentially a personal security camera, in the same way the one would have one bolted to the wall to monitor a shed, for example. I have one to protect myself and my belongings (my car) in the case of an accident and isn't connected online.
If dash cams were, for example, mandated and controlled by insurance companies, or could accessed by government bodies, (police, SIS, etc) then it would be a different matter, but they're not.
It's private CCTV, it's not Big Brother surveillance.
NB: I believe that dash cams will be made almost mandatory by insurance companies within the next 10 years, and at £20 a pop will probably be included for free with the premium, as they will reduce fees paid to lawyers and fraud. At this point it's possible that the data could be mishandled by themselves (think for example that an insurance company could look back at all of your driving for a month previously before honouring a claim) or giving others access with nefarious motives.
This is happening right now so no problem, but worth thinking about for the future.
dashcams are not data harvesters…….yet. It’s just something that concerns me that’s all and the main reason I don’t have one
Your main reason for not having one is a function it does not have that you dont want it to have. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Its not that rational a position </span>
none of them are right or wrong
nor do all of them make sense
I thought most car insurance was knock for knock on claims. Therefore it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is each insurer pays out and it goes on your record and affects your premium. Has this now changed, hence the need for dash cams.
No, an insurer well as far as possible look to prove fault and recoup any loss. If this can't be done then yes it's knock for knock.
A dashcam can prove vital in providing that proof. I'll be getting one - the price they are now it's a no-brainer.
Wobbliscott I think you mis-understand how dash cams work . They actually point out of the vehicle not into it 🙂
but that’s the thing about opinions…..none of them are right or wrong,
Some of them have no basis in reality. And some appeared to be influenced by David Icke.
wobbliscott, my dashcam (and I assume most) overwrites the video on a loop, unless I press a button to save the current 5 minute segment. In my case, I have a record of about the last 4 hours, but if you in put a small capacity SD card it would rewrite sooner.
I bought it after having had the car in front stop suddenly without warning (and I think without brake lights) while pulling onto a roundabout with no traffic on it. At the time I thought it was my fault, but there was other evidence that led my insurer to suspect fraud (crash for cash) and they refused to pay out to the other driver and did not increase my premium. I will be more wary in future, but the fraudsters are very clever at setting up collisions, and I want to have my own evidence.
Insurance is indeed for covering the cost of incidents, but if you're considered to be at fault, and can't prove you're not, your premium will increase by more than the cost of a dashcam.
"I have good insurance so not bothered about the process of what to do when or if I have a coming together with someone else on the road"
well you think you do , so did my dad , he had the best on test what bike recommended for foreign touring insurance with all the options packs on it.
when he came round from treatment he then was then told his insurance wasn't covering the (not small )hospital bill for him - they would cover the pillion but not the rider - in the end they only covered the total loss on the bike.
Now had the police not seen the video the french driver was going to go down the route of it being my dads fault - and with no way for him to prove otherwise ..... bearing in mind my dad doesnt remember the impact or the moments leading up to it or the weeks after it .
with the video footage from his friends bike they were able to prove without any instant of doubt that my dad was not at fault , the french driver was prosecuted and his insurance had to pay my dads not insignificant losses for the last 2 1/2 years of his life + ongoing care.
but I'm sure your great insurance would have sorted all that out without video footage.
Its a bad old world out there and people will lie through their teeth to save them spending a penny, CYA
To get truly burnt, and smited by the “making progress” brigade I’m all for cameras, GPS, etc limiting car speeds to the road’s speed limit.
The only possible way that would work, is if cars have completely autonomous driving systems, and for that to work is for the system to have LiDAR, so that cars always stay the same distance apart. Cruise control is fine, but no two vehicles will go at exactly the same speed, for a number of reasons, so it’s necessary to constantly correct the speed, and even systems like VW’s, which adjust speed if vehicles pull in front has its own issues.
Anyway, it’s been my experience over the last twenty months and tens of thousands of miles that the police never stick to speed limits, even when not on a call, and don’t care if people exceed the limit, just so long as they don’t take the piss, which is why I always set my cruise control for an indicated 80, roughly 75-76.
The reason that’s an ideal speed is it spreads the traffic out a lot more, because there will be some going faster, many going slower, which results in a spread of maybe 40 mph difference in speeds, avoiding bunching up, where there’s a greater chance of multi-vehicle pile-ups.
While humans can be unpredictable and make stupid mistakes and judgement calls, relying on technology can also bring its own issues, I’m not entirely sure I’m comfortable with having machines make decisions for me that are beyond my control, when I’m traveling at 70 mph along with a load of other metal boxes; a system-crash carries a whole other universe of hurt by comparison to losing data on a hard-drive...
I don’t get dash cams at all and this felt like an STW sort of question, why do people have them?
Do any STWers use them, have they been useful?
Cheap liability insurance.
Crash for cash schemes are curently prevelant. People are often unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions. A no fault crash can result in knock of knock if there is no evidence to support. "Independant" witnesses are known to appear after incidents.
Two reasons:
ostensibly for claims defensibility (as stated above)
if it’s a company / fleet car - mainly to influence / manage / modify driver behaviour. If you think your actions will be recorded, you’lll drive more sensibley. You could have an empty box that records nothing, but if it has a blinking red light, the driver will typically drive more cautiously as they think they are accountable. It’s why insurance companies love them on fleet cars
"The reason that’s an ideal speed is it spreads the traffic out a lot more, because there will be some going faster, many going slower, which results in a spread of maybe 40 mph difference in speeds, avoiding bunching up, where there’s a greater chance of multi-vehicle pile-ups."
And yet it's proven time and again that when average speed cameras and the speeds are lowered an leveled out are installed it reduces bunching at trafic black spots.
Multi car pile ups are reduced
Less tailgating
And generally less crashing.
I want to live in Wobbliscott's version of the future - roads with continuous wi-fi and enough bandwidth for streaming video, sounds good to me. In reality you have far more to worry about from sat-navs and cars with autonomous systems if you're concerned about big brother tracking you (let alone roadside cameras and general CCTV)
Also I think you miss the point about insurance, if you're not at fault the last thing you want is your insurance co settling 50:50 to avoid a court case as the other party has lied but you can't prove it as you have no evidence or witness. Whilst your premium may increase after a no fault accident it won't be anything like the increase you'll see resulting from a 50:50 settlement. And it could be worse, I'm sure there's plenty of people out there the have been the victims of staged accidents and ended up with 100% liability. Also I'd debate fully comp is there to protect you against that sort of thing, it's mostly there for when you are actually responsible for an accident (whether anyone else is involved or not).
Wobbliscott
Bails, you’re partially right but it’s all about big data, dash cams could be used to track your location and journeys if connected to the web as the inevitably will be, and that is private information.
Do you have a mobile phone? Because if you do, your location and journeys are being tracked at all times anyway.
