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By complete chance had my car booked in for new fronts this morning and had gone with Kleber cross climate ones (subsidiary of Michelin) - other brands available but these got good reviews and were pretty cheap.
Set off to Doncaster in beautiful dry sunny weather and didn’t even see snow forecast. On dry fast roads they were nice and quiet with plenty of grip, got to the model flying field set the plane up and the blizzard hit.
By the time I had packed up there was a good inch on the ground and tyres were just brilliant. No wheel spin, nothing - just drove straight off the field and onto snowy roads. Got back to Sheffield and the hilly roads near my house were packed snow already and again, not even a hint of spinning up going up them and they never felt like they were going to break grip.
Highly recommend anyone thinking about them to get them fitted, at least to the driving wheels, next time your due a set. Don’t think I’d have made it home nearly so easily without them 🙂
The problem tends to be everyone else when you're on winter tyres, in my experience...
I'm still riding the wave of smugness from passing a Range Rover stuck in two inches of snow on a slight gradient three years ago.
Just wait till the confidence the cross climates give you when fitted to the front overtake the limited capability of the standard tyres fitted to the rear.
Not a good idea to have mismatched tyres front/rear.
Got a link to the Kleber tyres? AFAIK the Crossclimate are Michelin-branded (we have them on our Tiguan 4motion and they're great).
@somafunk. Any first hand experience? According to tyre people I have spoken to , so long as you drive sensibly it’s fine to have all season on the drive wheels and normal on the rears. It is the fronts that slip and break traction far more readily than the rears (FWD of course) and you don’t (shouldn’t?!) barrel into corners when slippery which is when the rears are most likely to go. When the rears need doing though I’ll fit them anyway for completeness.
@idiotdigbrain - https://www.kleber-tyres.com/auto/tyres/kleber-quadraxer2?home=true I just got mine through Black Circles at £62 a corner for 16”
By complete chance had my car booked in for new fronts this mornin
Obviously not at the place I tried to buy some from last winter, they absolutely point blank refused to leave the new tyres on the front wheels and were quite surprised when I told them I'd go elsewhere. I've heard it before about putting the best tyres at the rear and if it's their company policy then they should state this before taking any orders/payment but the way I see it is as away of convincing gullible customers to buy 4 tyres instead of 2. I fail to see how putting summer tyres on the front wheels and all season on the rears of a fwd van is safer when theres snow on the ground and have used winters f/ summers r for many winters without a single slide or skid. I would say in most of the UK the all seasons are a better option than full winters and I've struggled to tell the difference between the Goodyear All Seasons I have now to the Michelin Winters I had before them
We have the Michelin version front and rear. Fit and forget.
According to tyre people I have spoken to , so long as you drive sensibly it’s fine to have all season on the drive wheels and normal on the rears.
If you have winter conditions then the front will have more grip so in adverse conditions the back will slide. Most likely when you are having to do an emergency/ evasive manoeuvre so driving calmly is not an option. Did the tyre place have a staff member who is an engineer eg. rubber chemistry/ tyre or car suspension design or is an experienced car manufacturer tester? If not I would not be incline to take their word as accurate
Do yourself a favour and get them put on the back too. To not do so is dangerous.
It’s far easier to control understeer than oversteer, and why its recommended if you’re only changing a pair of tyres is to put them on the rear and swap the rears to the front.
I got a set of winter tyres for a FWD Panda a few years ago and couldn’t believe how good they were, I drove 3 miles into the middle of a forest to watch a rally and nobody else could make it in.
Yep had them for years on our V70 - not quite as good in deep snow as the Vredestein full winter tyres it had at some point but they wore quick in summer whereas the Crossclimates are fit and forget.
I put them on my previous car (A6 Quattro) and it transformed it in pretty much all conditions, so I ran a few sets over the following 50k miles.
Swopped out the factory tyres on current car (Q5) a month or so back for CrossClimates even though originals only had 7.5k on them. Car is similarly sure footed to the previous one now, also better in the wet and quieter.
I understood that it was better to have the best tyres on the rear on the grounds that the last thing you want is the back of the car overtaking the front! I think for years people have assumed it's the driving wheels that are most important but that was one of those things that was true because it was obvious
That aside they seem like a good buy at that price
@avdave2 - I think the difference here is that there is, from a getting up a snowy hill point of view, cross climate on the rears only on an FWD car, wouldn’t make it any better and you’ll still break traction.
That said, the rears giving out and the front digging in being a *very bad thing* makes sense in most other scenarios so will look at getting it booked in for the rears also.
Goodyear think it's a bad idea
You should not mix all season and summer tyres. If you are changing your tyres to all season, you should put all season tyres on all four wheels. Equally, you should not mix all season tyres with winter tyres or summer tyres with winter tyres. Always fit the same type of tyre on all four wheels.
If you mix tyres, you will create an imbalance in grip and traction which will increase the chances of you losing control of your vehicle. Cars rely on all four tyres evenly, regardless of whether your car is rear wheel drive or front wheel drive and as such the same tyre should be fitted on all four wheels.
this is why they recommend all four wheels
I’ve now got Vredestein Quatrac Pro’s on Mrs Inbreds X1 and the cheaper Quatrac 5’s on the mini. Both all season. I could have gone with them on the front only as the X1 had the original Michelins summer tyre on the back with plenty of tread but they were 4 yrs old and I didn’t want to mix them as it’s 4WD. £125 each fitted for 225/50/18’s W speed rating (as if!)from black circles. As has been said earlier fit and forget. To be fair most tyre places now will fit the new ones to the back and switch the worns to the front if their is appreciable wear difference. If you loose the front you can usually get it back, if you loose the rear you’re stuffed.
I had some Michelin cross climates fitted to the front of my car in October. I moaned at the tyre place as I wanted eco tyres (cars a hybrid) but the lease company insist on cross climates when available. Absolutely brilliant compared to the originals. To those saying that they should be fitted to all four wheels - I’m sure that would be better, but the lease company will oddly only replace the tyres when they are worn, and the fronts wore much quicker than the rears. I will howeve let actually ask for cross climates next time as the car handles so much better in every condition. Most of my driving is also on tiny local muddy roads.
To those saying that they should be fitted to all four wheels – I’m sure that would be better, but the lease company will oddly only replace the tyres when they are worn, and the fronts wore much quicker than the rears.
I would be emailing the lease company with that information from Goodyear. Also I would check what my insurance provider position was.
Being ultra pedantic those videos relate to winter tyres and not cross climate where the grip imbalance in snow is going to be much greater however I can see why having much more grip at the front can be a bad thing. I did give it some welly around the field to test the traction at the front (having previously got stuck on it) and the rear didn't try and step out at all.
Either way - car booked in for the rears to be done next week to be sure. Still - doesn't affect my opinion of the concept. Brilliant things...
I wouldn't trust a tyre fitter that let anyone fit winters just to one axle, cross climate's are a slightly different matter as not as marked a grip difference vs summers compared to full winter. Have even seen in some car manuals that they specifically say not to do this, some cars even say all 4 tyres should be same brand and model - the reasons for this are even more complicated than just a simple handling balance thing. Most modern cars have all sorts electronic systems going on in the background ABS, Electronic brake force distribution, emergency brake assist, E-diffs, the effectiveness of which can be affected by mixing up tyres of significantly differing grip levels. I know my car manual says not to do this as I read it as complete nerdalert...an older or simpler car may not be so much of an issue.
I should have cross climates fitted on my car by now. Was convinced of their effectiveness when one of the vans at my old work had them fitted and they found grip in pretty much any condition. I fitted new summers to the front of my car back in December last year with the rears being half worn and by now they would normally all need replacing so was going to go for cross climates this time. Sadly with the restrictions the fronts still have 6mm on them and the rears 4mm. Couldn't justify changing them with plenty of life left and as I'm not working I'll just walk if I get snow here.
My Maxxis all seasons have been great the last few snowy, slushy days even after the fact the fronts have worn down below the outer edge sypes and are being replaced on Monday. I thought they'd have gone past their best like that but it seems not. I'd not go back to summer rubber.
Have even seen in some car manuals that they specifically say not to do this, some cars even say all 4 tyres should be same brand and model – the reasons for this are even more complicated than just a simple handling balance thing. Most modern cars have all sorts electronic systems going on in the background ABS, Electronic brake force distribution, emergency brake assist, E-diffs, the effectiveness of which can be affected by mixing up tyres of significantly differing grip levels.
Is the grip between two different manufacturers greater that the difference caused by wear on front vs rear after several thousand miles?
Tyre manufacturers have an interest in selling tyres so their answer is always going to involve you buying more tyres.
I wish it was an option to get all seasons fitted at new. We asked on our focus but it wasn't. Makes far more sense driving around the NE of England.
Agree , we have a difficult exit from a steep driveway back up an ungritted narrow hill. Both our awd cars with cross climates never have a problem. I ploughed through a foot of fresh the other day in the S3 and it was fine.
I've currently got Michelin CC on mine. Feel like a summer tyre during the summer but offer some of the benefits of winter tyres during winter, perfect for the needs of most people really. I wouldn't use anything less for year round use. They're not remarkable in the snow, they do OK but not as good as other winter tyres I've used.
Re. Front and back differentials. First time I used winters I fitted to the front only. It's a good way to find out how much difference they make... Caught me out one day having some playful low-speed fun in a couple inches of snow. Expecting the front to slide a bit and just steer into it, the grip was so strong the rear just span round the front wheels like it was on skates. I could easily see how you could quickly get into serious trouble if you did lose control at higher speeds. I'd always have them on both axles now.
winter tyres on my yeti (4x4) were freaking amazing this year.
sailed up (and back down) the mother-in-law's road the other day, 5 years I've been waiting for the opportunity to try them out properly.....5 bloody years 😀
but yeah, you'd be bat shit to want to mix winter and normal tyres.
@idiotdigbrain – https://www.kleber-tyres.com/auto/tyres/kleber-quadraxer2?home=true
I'm sorry to be pedantic, but those aren't CrossClimates, they're All-Season tyres.
All-Season tyres are generally developed using a winter tyre and working backwards to make it usable in summer. CrossClimates were developed by Michelin by starting with a summer tyre and making it usable in winter. Subtle, but important difference.
As you were.. 😁
@idiotdogbrain - interesting. And Kleber are Michelin so I wonder how much cross development there is :). I thought CrossClimate was just Michelin's trademarked name and the generic was all season but more than happy to be wrong 😀
Either way they worked very well today in both bone dry and snowy conditions so I'm happy...
[url= https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.evo.co.uk/features/15600/michelin-cross-climate-vs-winter-and-all-season-tyres%3famp ]CrossClimate vs Winter vs All-season[/url]
Interesting read...
When I replaced my front tyres Cosco would only fit the new Goodyear Vectors to the rear. Fine by me. AI already had all seasons on all 4 wheels. the Conti version. Not as good in snow as the Goodyear Vectors. Having experienced the difference in traction between good all seasons and summer tyres in the snow I wouldn't want ato drive a car with b no grip at the back. Accident waiting to happen.
I had a set of Goodyears on my last Octavia and it was great in snow. THe only car in my street that got out and about during the beast from the east in 2018.
The Goodyears were also far quieter than the OE Bridgestones they replaced.
j4mie
It’s far easier to control understeer than oversteer,
Not if you learnt to drive on a RWD car and did subsequent skid pan training on a RWD car.
I hate understeer in a car it scares me that I will go ploughing on off the road!
Learnt to drive on a Hillman Avenger then had a MkII Escort van followed by a 3000E Capri and a Manta GTE. Had a 306 GTi6 & MkII Scirocco GTi that drove well for a FWD as you could easily get lift off oversteer. I'm no Surfmatt but usually FWD feels strange to me on the limit? Not something I do these days though being old and slow 😉
But Winter tyres on any car are a revelation in crap weather.
I've been sold on winter/all-season tyres ever since we fitted them to a Fiesta, my wife (who hates driving in snow) managed to get off the motorway after 5 hours of sitting in stationary traffic) and get home via the hilly side roads whilst passing all the 4x4s sliding around at the side of the road. Hundreds of people spent the whole night on the motorway. Then they helped our Fiesta tiptoe up a steep glassy ice covered track with enough control to swerve into a ditch when two 4x4s came sliding down the hill using the hedge and their paintwork to keep them on the road!
We started with Kleber Quadraxers (all-season) but found them a bit wandery in the summer when we got a more powerful, heavier car. We then went through a set of Nokian Weatherproof tyres which about pretty aggressive all-season tyres, they wore a bit quicker but made the car look a bit like a tractor! Now on Michelin CrossClimates which are a happy medium.
Those insisting on fitting new, or all-season/winter tyres to the front axle...its all well and good whilst you are driving 'sensibly and carefully' for the last two years, but try reminding yourself to drive carefully when you are doing 50mph on cold January evening after a long day at work, someone comes up to a give way a bit aggressively and you make a minor swerve as they stop overhanging your lane. Subpar tyres on the back...gambling that they are going to stick, or let go and in a split second, broadside you into the oncoming traffic for a lethal side impact at a closing speed of 100mph? You don't need to spent long on youtube before it offers you a few dashcam videos showing how quick a truck can split a car in two when losing the back end. The back of your car is normally lighter than the front and even with matched tyres its not hard to find yourself in a situation where you are trying to turn around on a hill in the snow, and find the rear of the car crabbing sideways and hampering your efforts to point the front of the car downhill. A bit of stationary wheelspin normally overcomes that problem by allowing the front to slide downhill quicker than the back!
Plus, whats the point of going through three sets of front tyres and still running an old set of 8 year old, hardened, slightly perished rear tyres? Let the garage fit new to the rear, your rears with 6mm of tread will do absolutely fine on the front, and this way you renew all your tyres rather than just one pair. I try to rotate ours so that they wear relatively evenly, and then replace all at the same time which means you can change brands etc without having a mismatch between axles.
braking traction is also better with 4 winters on. i have had winters on the front of a fwd car and all season on the back and ended up pointing the wrong way before, 5.30 am on the motorway luckily.no harm done! in my younger days i was skeptical and thought i was being upsold but i will always buy 4 winters at once now .
i can always justify the cost as being much cheaper than an accident.
I understood that it was better to have the best tyres on the rear on the grounds that the last thing you want is the back of the car overtaking the front!
This is my understanding, too.
Losing the front end through understeer is bad.
Losing the back end and spinning could be catastrophic.
Just ask Vettel.
I'm happy with the idea of keeping a good grip on the back. I went to Costco for new fronts on our Smart and guy on the desk started filling out the form to tell the fitter to put them on the back and move the old back ones to the front. I pointed out they are different sizes and he started again. But the reason they are different sizes is that the first Smarts had the same size all round, and people kept losing the back end, so they changed the design to keep 145/65 on the front and wider 175/55 on the back.
Lease companies don’t authorise winter / non standard tyres (I’ve tried many times)
Tyre people sound like cowboys of the best order.
Op you are now driving an unbalanced dangerous car
I should clarify - it wasn’t the tyre fitters that said it was ok rather other tyre people I know.
Car is booked in for the rears to be done 🙂
I just put winter tyres on the left hand side of the car. Gives better grip going round icy roundabouts.
Nothing wrong with that is there?
A bit too early to be changing the tyres on my Ford, they’ve only got a bit over 5000 miles on them at the moment, Goodyear, not entirely sure what flavour, though; I will be going over the the Michelin Cross Climates, they seem to consistently get the best all round reviews, although those the OP posted up look interesting.
I’ve managed to nearly double the mileage on them since August, when they were 14 months old - better start using a piggy-bank for when I need a new set!
^^^ my original tyres didn’t have much more on them but I really didn’t fancy going through the winter on them, so bit the bullet with CrossClimates all round.