[Closed] critical mass

perhaps you misread it and it actually said "Bristol city center reaches critical mess on the last friday of every month"? 😆

When does the arguing start about who Critical Mass serves best; cyclists or people who hate cyclists? I'll be out around then.

So who does critial mass actually help?

They had one ride around Southampton that I went on to see what the fuss was about. We rode around slowly trying to piss off the traffic. Seemed stupid to me so didn;t bother going again.

We rode around slowly trying to piss off the traffic

But dont you know the GOOD that will do? 😉

I can think of no better way to endear cyclists to the general public than making them late home from work on a Friday evening. It advances our cause no end, I'm sure

I'd also like to thank Critical Mass for giving the impression that most cyclists have serious personal hygiene issues and are, in fact, a bunch of brainless crusty morons. Well done!

Quislings.

😉

Critical Mass in its original form made a lot of sense. The idea is that once a critical mass of trips are made by bike, it becomes a normal everyday occurance to see bikes and the roads get safer as more and more people realise it's the best way to get around town. This could be simulated by artificially gathering together a group of riders at a set place and time to ride a shared route.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into something else.

I think it would be interesting to start up some kind of "cycling bus", where everyone who cycles from one area of town to another at a similar time could join up and ride as a group.

None of these ideas help though. Forming a critical mass doesnt make it an everyday occurance, because you're simulating it, once a month, and cheesing people off, not doing it daily and removing the traffic from the equation as would be needed. All it ever did was get in the way for the purposes of getting in the way. And the cycling bus is also pointless, you might as well just GET a bus and cause less aggrivation.

And the cycling bus is also pointless, you might as well just GET a bus and cause less aggrivation.

Why would there be aggravation if a dozen cyclists all rode along a road following the rules of the road?

It could be a good way for less experienced cyclists to commute by bike once a week.

Why would there be aggravation if a dozen cyclists all rode along a road following the rules of the road?

It could be a good way for less experienced cyclists to commute by bike once a week.

Because a long stream of cyclists is very hard to pass (harder than one at a time, especially in a city) in a car, so that would cause annoyance with drivers. At most you could only ride 2 abreast if there was no traffic (the law states, IIRC, you can ride 2 abreast IF the general traffic permits it), so it'd be a long snake of bikes, each chosing their own distance from the kerb, each going to different places and joining at different places. Who wants to ride in a line, its hardly a sociable event. It just wouldnt happen, like trying to herd ants, so it'd turn into a string of cyclists being beeped at and narrowly avoided by the cars they've annoyed. At least CM has sufficient mass to physically prevent cars passing.

Ever been on a group ride through a town? I have several times and it was always fine.

With a 'cycling bus' you also have the wonderful experience of waiting for it [in the cold & wet]
Why would you want to do that rather than getting on with it?

The cycling bus concept already exists in Manchester as a "critical commute". I've seen it once or twice, but it doesn't follow the route I do, and doesn't move fast enough.

Critical Mass is, in many ways, redundant as a message format, since it never gets beyond the reality that there are not so many cyclists moving about together every day. Even Beijing isn't like that, and China is the land of the bicycle.

The car still represents personal choice and freedom. the bicycle also represents that. Let the towns and cities become clogged with cars, and they'll cease to represent choice and freedom. The bicycle will seem like the perfect alternative to achieve that.

There is a critical mass of cycling happening right now - more and more people ride bikes to work, whether for exercise or because that's all they have. The decision to join in with that is not going to come from an apprently confrontational approach.

Well put Tom.

🙂

Ever been on a group ride through a town? I have several times and it was always fine.

Nope, can't even imagine why I'd want/need to to be honest. I used to ride through Liverpool with a mate on our commute, even that was pretty unsociable and we were often separated at lights etc.

Nope, can't even imagine why I'd want/need to to be honest.

The launch of a new Sustrans route from Darlington to Stockton saw a group of about 30 ride the route. No aggro with car drivers.

Darlington council's cycle forum rode round the new infrastructure in the town. There were about a dozen of us. Again, no aggro.

Maybe so mike, but at what time of day, and through what traffic? Claiming one particular sustrans route was easy on one particular day doesnt really mean much, regular city/town riding on normal roads with normal cycling provisions simply wouldnt be appropriate in a group.

Maybe so mike, but at what time of day, and through what traffic? Claiming one particular sustrans route was easy on one particular day doesnt really mean much.

The Sustrans ride was a Saturday morning, I think. It went from one town centre to another, along various types of road.

The council ride was one weekday on the tail end of the rush hour. As you can see on [url= http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Darlington-Cycle-Forum-Bike-Lane-Tour ]the map of the route[/url], we covered most of the town, doing 10 miles in a town that's only 3 or 4 miles across.

regular city/town riding on normal roads with normal cycling provisions simply wouldnt be appropriate in a group

Depends upon how you define a group, I suppose. A dozen people all starting in the same place and heading to the same place at roughly the same speed would still get split up a little, so I really don't think it would be a problem.

This would be on roads/routes I ride regularly and know very well. I know what the traffic's like at different times, so I've a good idea what it would be like.

Well of course if you get split up then it becomes nothing more than a few bunches of a few riders, wouldnt cause much problem at all. But that wasn't what I invisaged by a bike bus.
[img] http://www.keighleynews.co.uk/resources/images/668373/?type=display [/img]

That's a bike bus in my thought processes, and I could see that annoying drivers. It would annoy me, as a driver, and as a cyclist if it were going slowly. As a commuter, commuting on the roads, I'm not there for fun or for a sense of groupiness, I'm there to commute. As fast, efficiently and legally as possible - that's why I dont like the idea ofa bike bus I think. I hate proper buses because when I'm going somewhere I want to be there, I dont want others around me and I dont want to have to wait for others to get off and on lol. I suppose this is why if I'm not riding I'm driving (other than the fact that its cheaper than using public transport).

Mike that route is almost totally residential areas with lowish traffic - that's why it was chosen
I can't really see why anyone would take that route - presuming they worked in the town centre

McMullen rd/Haughton rd jcn to the town centre via Neasham rd?
it's not going to work as a way to get people into town, fine as a safe route to cycle around with kids [as I do] but it's not practical as a commuter route.

[i]binners - Member
I can think of no better way to endear cyclists to the general public than making them late home from work on a Friday evening. It advances our cause no end, I'm sure

I'd also like to thank Critical Mass for giving the impression that most cyclists have serious personal hygiene issues and are, in fact, a bunch of brainless crusty morons. Well done![/i]

Just like you prove that most forum members are bigoted stereotyping morons that think the using your right as citizen makes you A crusty Moron. All those Crusty Morons whom the majority of people actually in the long run seem to be following... Sometimes you have to be loud and annoying to get things done.. If There was the Internet at the and 19th century half the people here would be complaing about Women disturbing there horseracing by throwing themselves under it, the century before that you'd be moaning about poor people being able to vote.Before anyone says that there bad analogys, The whole City vehicle and non vehicle users is about the smaller guy ( in this case the unprotected cyclist vias the two ton car) being heard being seen and being valued- If they slow traffic one Friday a month maybe it will remind other road users how much longer it would take to get around town if all of the cyclists were in cars...

Mike that route is almost totally residential areas with lowish traffic - that's why it was chosen
I can't really see why anyone would take that route - presuming they worked in the town centre

McMullen rd/Haughton rd jcn to the town centre via Neasham rd?
it's not going to work as a way to get people into town, fine as a safe route to cycle around with kids [as I do] but it's not practical as a commuter route.

That was a tour of facilities, not a specific route, so it went through various random areas.

My commute: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/New-commute199532

Following crusty Morons? Thankfully, critical mass numbers are down.And it is nice that you reinforce my and I am sure, a lot of fellow bigots opinions in comparing your protests(sic)to the campaign for the vote.Where are you and your crusty mates when I am commuting to work on a freezing Feb morning? Oh and forum members...that would be cyclists then? Explain why stopping parents getting their kids home on a Friday teatime does anything to advance the cause of cycling.

So, just to get this straight. The "cause of cycling" (whatever that is) is best advanced by staying out of the way of the school run mums and making sure they (above all people) are in no way inconvenienced by an excess of cyclists?

😉

You cant build bridges by launching rockets.

If they slow traffic one Friday a month maybe it will remind other road users how much longer it would take to get around town if all of the cyclists were in cars...

It won't [doesn't] it just reminds city drivers that cyclists are are bunch of ar$eholes, which doesn't come as any surprise to them.
Trouble is, the anarchic types that tag along & shout the loudest don't want to re-evaluate the tactics.

That was a tour of facilities, not a specific route, so it went through various random areas.

OK

I'll stick to the main roads for getting into town then 🙂

BTW - how do you attack that new roundabout thing on Haughton road?

'Annoys car drivers'

So ****ing what? Many of the selfish ****s annoy the **** out of me, by driving like complete idiots, putting my life and others in danger. Let them ****ing wait a bit. Or better still, get out of yer cars and onto a bike, or bus, or tube, you selfish lazy bastards. I'd reckon 70% or more of all car journeys in a big city like London, are unnecessary. What's the average journey length, 3 miles or something? Jeeze...

Too much is geared up towards the car, because cars pay tax revenue which can then buy guns and bombs to hassle other countries into giving us cheap oil to run our cars etc etc blah blah blah.

Car drivers? ****'em. it's my city too, and if I want to ride round in a big bunch with other cyclists, then I'll do so. As for me being selfish, well, then I'm no different to most drivers, am I? And I don't create pollution...

I thought the 'cause of cycling' was getting from A to B, not stopping other people from getting from A to B .....

that's fine Rudeboy - you can't beat a bit of retaliation

But they need to come out & say that's why their doing it - people would then better understand

[i]Explain why stopping parents getting their kids home on a Friday teatime does anything to advance the cause of cycling.[/i] There not stopping the ones walking are they? I'm fairly sure there's studies that say most kids are within a mile of there schools, I'm not a crusty (i'm not really sure what they are) I just don't understand why cyclists shouldn't be supporting the right to ride en-mass, when you spend the rest of the month shunted in to the gutter whislt cars fly by inches away from you.

So ****ing what? Many of the selfish ****s annoy the **** out of me, by driving like complete idiots, putting my life and others in danger. Let them ****ing wait a bit. Or better still, get out of yer cars and onto a bike, or bus, or tube, you selfish lazy bastards.

I repeat, you cant build bridges by launching rockets. The vast MAJORITY of people are car drivers. Annoy them and, by the nature of a democracy, you'll lose whatever youre attempting. Sure there are bad drivers, but there are bad cyclists who do the same daily to me when commuting - so thats an irrelevant argument, I wish people would stop using it.

I'd reckon 70% or more of all car journeys in a big city like London, are unnecessary.

Or quite simply impossible with a quantity of paperwork, an expensive suit and a laptop to carry. Though I agree some are unneccessary, a large percentage are not.

Too much is geared up towards the car, because cars pay tax revenue which can then buy guns and bombs to hassle other countries into giving us cheap oil to run our cars etc etc blah blah blah.

Losing credibility now...

Car drivers? ****'em. it's my city too, and if I want to ride round in a big bunch with other cyclists, then I'll do so. As for me being selfish, well, then I'm no different to most drivers, am I? And I don't create pollution...

Nope, its gone.

You'll do no positive influencing with that attitude, so really you're just working against cyclists.

I just don't understand why cyclists shouldn't be supporting the right to ride en-mass, when you spend the rest of the month shunted in to the gutter whislt cars fly by inches away from you.

Because you never win anything by going on the offensive and forcing yourself on the majority, you just become a target for abuse. Personally I dont ride in the gutter and so dont get cars flying by inches away. I do get loons pulling out on me.

BTW - how do you attack that new roundabout thing on Haughton road?

Usually, I ride past the huge queue of traffic on the 'wrong' side of the road, then ride over onto the bike path outside the BP garage and use the bike path to get to Borough Road. Much quicker than waiting for the lights to change. If I happen to get near the front of the queue as the lights go green, I take my place in the middle of the lane and ride round the roundabout with the cars.

it just reminds city drivers that cyclists are are bunch of ar$eholes, which doesn't come as any surprise to them.

And some tw4t beeping his horn and screaming at me to get out of the way just reminds me that car drivers are a bunch of arseholes, which doesn't come as any surprise to me...

Seems that quite a few on this forum are merely car drivers that ride a bike sometimes...

And some tw4t beeping his horn and screaming at me to get out of the way just reminds me that car drivers are a bunch of ****, which doesn't come as any surprise to me...

There you go then - stalemate

Try something new

Seems that quite a few on this forum are merely car drivers that ride a bike sometimes...

Actually the VAST majority of cyclists drive as well. And the VAST majority, I'm sure, would not want to be held up at every turn by a bunch of idiots on bikes trying to make trouble. Dont try to make being a "cyclist" into a cause where you can only be one or the other, thats just stupid.

The vast MAJORITY of people are car drivers

Utter, utter bollocks. I'm talking about London, here; the percentage of journeys made by car, in the centre, compared to all other forms of transport, is very small.

Or quite simply impossible with a quantity of paperwork, an expensive suit and a laptop to carry

Typical 'oh but I'm special, I need my car' bollocks. I can carry more than that on my bike. A friend is a lawyer, and carries exactly that amount, on a bike. Bullshit argument.

I'm not interested in a 'positive attitude', until car drivers stop being so selfish. Asking nicely doesn't work with ignorant, selfish people. They don't care. So, force them off the road, I say.

Congestion Charge: make it £50 a day...

And some tw4t beeping his horn and screaming at me to get out of the way just reminds me that car drivers are a bunch of ****, which doesn't come as any surprise to me...

I have to say that I don't think that's ever happened to me, and I often ride in the middle of the lane if it's safer. Maybe it's a Lahndan thing?

Having said that, [url= http://quickrelease.tv/?p=748 ]Carlton Reid was deliberately driven at the other night[/url] and I think he's in Newcastle.

Bigdummy,how many criticalmass demos take place during school run time? If you have children and both you and your partner work, then you may have to leave them with a childminder,my sister found herself in this situation during one of the Edinburgh ones about 18 months ago,stuck in a car with a 2 and 6 year old.Still as long as you can all stick it to the man, eh? Go on rudeboy, wave your willy about the miles you do each day as a real cyclist.

The whole City vehicle and non vehicle users is about the smaller guy ( in this case the unprotected cyclist vias the two ton car) being heard being seen and being valued

No it isn't. That assumes that (a) we all have to fight each other, and (b) that I am unable to make myself sufficiently seen, heard and valued when on the roads. Training for cyclists would do a much better job of that.

This also assumes that the rights of cyclists who ride 10 miles to work in the dark along busy A roads from their small village are somehow less valuable than those who ride around towns and cities.

If Critical Mass as a concept is to serve any purpose, then it needs to drop the political angle. In this country, unfortunately that is entrenched, as a reult of the confrontation between CM and the Met over the concept of organised protests. Now, from an ideological point of view, I agree with the stance taken. But that moved it away from a transport issue into one of a continuing right to protest.

Yeasr ago, my mother was involved in the animal rights movement. She's pretty moderate, but she did come into contact with those who were less so. Her view was that they were simply hijacking the original purpose - a moral, ethical stance - and turning it into an anti-establishment political stance. CM has ended up here, and as such its usefulness at demonstrating an alternative to the car has ended.

I maintain that the true critical mass is simply shown in the increasing number of individuals riding bikes. They do it for utilitarian* means, but the net effect is one of more bikes on the road and a necessary requirement for those still in cars to change their behaviour. Driver behaviour will not change over night, but will gradually alter as the road user profile changes away from such a dominance of car driving.

So, don't give me "it's the only way for the little guy to fight" bollex. CM is just an excuse now for an easy protest without having to believe in much more than protest itself. Not good enough.

*As in JS Mill.

Utter, utter bollocks. I'm talking about London, here; the percentage of journeys made by car, in the centre, compared to all other forms of transport, is very small.

You might be talking about london (as usual), but the rest of us were talking about any large town or city. Regardless, the point was that THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE CAR DRIVERS. This is true, regardless of where they are.

Typical 'oh but I'm special, I need my car' bollocks. I can carry more than that on my bike. A friend is a lawyer, and carries exactly that amount, on a bike. Bullshit argument.

Just because you can, as a fit, healthy and capable person doesnt mean everyone can, or indeed should. A) There are many people for whome the change to cycling would simply be impossible, or take too long to reach a sensible level of fitness. B) There is personal choice involved, just because you think its right that everyone should be cycling doesnt mean it IS right. If the percentage of road users were so small, as you have suggested above, there woudl be no congestion charge requirements and there would be no traffic problem in London. Add to that the figure you were (I think it was you) bandying about the other day - 6 or so million entering the capital each day to work - a very large percentage of which are outside "sensible" bike commuting distances. In other cities, such as liverpool, the city is spread out over a large area, people often live a LONG way from where they work. I used to commute 34 miles a day on a bike, but it took a LOT of doing and serious fitness, and a LOT of time out of my day, to assume your average car-driving merchant banker (which you're so proud of being the mainstay of the UK economy) could do the same is utter tripe.

I'm not interested in a 'positive attitude', until car drivers stop being so selfish. Asking nicely doesn't work with ignorant, selfish people. They don't care. So, force them off the road, I say.

I don't do very many, actually. I don't even ride my bike every day.

I knew my vehement response would get some of you going (s'why I did it!). And some of my best friends are Car Drivers, before I get accused of being car-o-phobic or something...

Most journeys I make by bike are made slower, due to the amount of cars. Most journeys I make are quicker than a car. When I can't/don't want to use the bike, I can take the bus/tube/train etc.

There are too many cars on the road-FACT.

There is too much pollution caused by cars- FACT.

There are too many people killed by selfish and careless drivers -FACT.

something's gotta be done, and as I pointed out earlier, asking nicely falls on deaf ears.

Most people don't really need a car- FACT.

So, what other ways would you suggest, to change people's attitudes toward unnecessary car journeys?

THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE CAR DRIVERS.

Back that up with some stats. The population of Britain is 56 million. Prove there are more than 28 million drivers.

Bearing in mind that there are many who hold licences, but never drive, I suspect you won't find this one easy...

So, what other ways would you suggest, to change people's attitudes toward unnecessary car journeys?

That's the problem.

Encouraging people to use other means through advertising and building new UK-style infrastructure doesn't seem to be working.

Actively discouraging car use seem to be the only way forward, but there's no political will to do this in the UK.