[Closed] critical mass

Well said Fred, people who drive cars in large cities deserve all the derision and flack possible.
Cars are for long journeys on large car biased carriageways, not on inner city roads originally designed around the horse and cart.

Just like mopeds, horses and bicycles are banned from motorway use perhaps large motor vehicles should be banned from single lane inner city roads ???

Most journeys I make by bike are made slower, due to the amount of cars. Most journeys I make are quicker than a car. When I can't/don't want to use the bike, I can take the bus/tube/train etc.

And soi, Fred, all you really wish to do, is travel at a pace and in a manner which suits you. It's not really about anyone else, is it? It's about your convenience.

Which is pretty typical of THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.

Sheesh.

did anyone see the critical mass documentary? it documented the birth of it, back in some US city. the idea back then was to not instigate a 'go slow' but to cruise along at a fair lick to show the benefits. i saw the said film at the cinema and there was a q+a at the end - a middle aged lady could not see any reason to participate unless it is to go incredibly slowly and make motorists angry. it was quite sad and more than a little worrying

Most journeys I make by bike are made slower, due to the amount of cars. Most journeys I make are quicker than a car. When I can't/don't want to use the bike, I can take the bus/tube/train etc.

Most journeys I make on my bike could be done faster in a car. Most journeys I drive I get held up by a cyclist at least once. If I dont want to use the bike I have to drive as there's no public transport that is usable where I live. The rest of the country (TM) is different from the big smoke.

There are too many cars on the road-FACT.

There is too much pollution caused by cars- FACT.

You could argue there's too much polution full stop. I hope you never take a plane abroad, dont heat your home (its not necessary after all, just comfortable) and never use a TV - what a waste of power.

There are too many people killed by selfish and careless drivers -FACT.

something's gotta be done, and as I pointed out earlier, asking nicely falls on deaf ears.

Only if you ask in the wrong way. Shouting falls on a fist coming the other way.

Most people don't really need a car- FACT.

So, what other ways would you suggest, to change people's attitudes toward unnecessary car journeys?

By slow integration of cycling through schemes such as cycle to work, giving incentives to cycle rather than ride if possible etc. This works, at my last place of work we took the number of city commuter cyclists from 2.5% to over 5%, much higher than national average for businesses. Change takes time, you cant be a revolutionary cyclist and force it overnight by being offensive on the road, that just makes YOU the tw*t.

Bearing in mind that there are many who hold licences, but never drive, I suspect you won't find this one easy...

Anyone who drives, however rarely, is a driver and is able to see how frustrating a millitant cyclist can be. It was never question of numbers, it was a question of experience and sense.

Back that up with some stats. The population of Britain is 56 million. Prove there are more than 28 million drivers.

And, in your tactics, prove I'm wrong. You're coming at it from the view of a city dweller in the capital, a place with a well established and renowned public transport network, reaching in all directions. For once, think about it from other peoples shoes...

Personally i think the problem with CM is not the message but the fact that it does not get through. There are a lot of motorists sat in cars thinking why the hell are these cyclists blocking up the town, or they may not even know it is cyclists.

oldcodger - I have lived (off and on) and worked in cities for the past 9 years. I'm just capable of seeing both sides of a story. Grow up.

And, Rudeboy, as you said in a previous thread:

you (and others) have made your minds up that it's 'cr4p'[all drivers in cities are idiots and cyclists should be millitant], etc, so there's no point me wasting my time trying to explain things to you.

Coffeeking; We're talking about Critical mass, here. something that is staged in large cities, which London is one of. i am not commenting on car use outside of London, or outside any large city. I am talking about car use IN a large city, FFS. MOST of which is UNNECESSARY.

Right.

[url= http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=219239 ]There are approx 33 million vehicles on the road in Britain.[/url]

26 million of those are CARS. So, simple maths: 56/26= 46%, approx. NOT a VAST MAJORITY.

Ok so.

A far smaller proportion of people in London own or drive a car. A big chunk of cars in London are people coming in from the suburbs and Home counties.

Whilst I appreciate there are many people who do need cars, such as those with disabilities, people who need to transport special equipment, like doctors, etc., there are many who simply don't, and it's their selfish behaviour that affects everybody else.

The car is a quick and convenient form of transport, but the reality is, for most people, it's a luxury item, like a telly or iPod. There is a perceived status to car ownership, which does not help matters at all.

I'm not for ridding ALL cars from city streets, but a 50% reduction would be ****ing amazing, in the impact that would have on congestion, pollution and the overall quality of life of all urban residents.

Blah blah I'm sure those with intelligence can work out the rest.

And the whole point of CM, is to say 'look, we're here on bikes, deal with it', NOT '**** all drivers'. That's just a radical minority, and me. I suspect quite a few peopleon here have never been on a CM. I have, and I've seen people having a go at others, for deliberately pissing off car drivers, as that's not the intention.

If a tractor is driving along a tight country lane, and you're stuck behind it, you just have to wait. No point getting steamed up about it, it won't get you along any quicker. Same with CM. Just that people in cars often seem to have the attitude of 'get out of my way I'm more important than you'.

Oh, I have all sorts of anger management issues anyway, and love a good confrontation.

I'm quite nice, most of the time, though.

26 million of those are CARS. So, simple maths: 56/26= 46%, approx. NOT a VAST MAJORITY.

My parents have [b]one[/b] car. [b]Both[/b] of them are drivers.

Coffeeking; We're talking about Critical mass, here. something that is staged in large cities, which London is one of. i am not commenting on car use outside of London, or outside any large city. I am talking about car use IN a large city, FFS. MOST of which is UNNECESSARY.

CM has been held in all the cities I have lived/worked in. Most of which are not clogged with traffic.

26 million of those are CARS. So, simple maths: 56/26= 46%, approx. NOT a VAST MAJORITY.

Slightly shit maths there, since MANY people share cars with their other half. You cant base the number of drivers on teh number of cars. And if you read my post you'd see my point was not that there were set numbers of cars, but that everyoen knows the experience of driving and wouldnt want to be held up by a moron on a bike for no reason. Please read posts before replying.

A far smaller proportion of people in London own or drive a car. A big chunk of cars in London are people coming in from the suburbs and Home counties.

Obviously, these are the people that you claim make london great, and the centre of our economy etc. Do you really expect those 6-7 million to come in on public transport or bikes? I mean you'd have to what, double, maybe more the number of buses, taxis (still cars) and trains/underground to cope, AND make new/bigger links.

Whilst I appreciate there are many people who do need cars, such as those with disabilities, people who need to transport special equipment, like doctors, etc., there are many who simply don't, and it's their selfish behaviour that affects everybody else.

And it's your selfish behaviour that affects other cyclists! Some people drive in because they have multiple places to visit on the way home, shopping to collect etc, while living 10 miles from the city and not near a public transport link. Not all cities are the same as London, you cant widely condemn all (city or otherwise) drivers as selfish based on London.

I'm not for ridding ALL cars from city streets, but a 50% reduction would be ****ing amazing, in the impact that would have on congestion, pollution and the overall quality of life of all urban residents.

I agree, removing some of the cars would be great. But who chooses who gets to stay and who doesn't? As an urban resident, claiming all the virtues of a city and how you love it so much, you really cant complain when people drive through cities - cities are nothing more than road networks between densely packed businesses, surrounded by homes. You chose to have a home there?

And the whole point of CM, is to say 'look, we're here on bikes, deal with it', NOT '**** all drivers'. That's just a radical minority, and me.

If it had stuck to its original aim, and were delivering it, it would be fine. What it has become, and you, stand for something which is a pointless waste of time that will hurt "the cause".

If a tractor is driving along a tight country lane, and you're stuck behind it, you just have to wait. No point getting steamed up about it, it won't get you along any quicker. Same with CM. Just that people in cars often seem to have the attitude of 'get out of my way I'm more important than you'.

Nope, you're missing the point. The tractor driver is going about his business making a living, not out to prove that his tractor should be on the road and you shouldn't, and he is not trying to prove some moral high ground. That is why we give them time and space.

You can clearly see the affect CM is having by recent news reports, I'll try to drag up the links tonight, where people are seeing cyclists as green activists now and disliking all cyclists as they assume they're trying to claim a moral high ground and are better than others. Thsi is the start of the backlash.

Oh, I have all sorts of anger management issues anyway, and love a good confrontation.

I'm quite nice, most of the time, though.

🙂 Me too, hence I get into massive posts on here WITH YOU more often than not! I too swear and curse at drivers who dont give me room when I'm going about my commute. I also swear and curse at cyclists who run reds and cause havoc on the road through lack of road sense. As part of each I see both sides. As part of each I try to find a fair solution.

Still not a VAST MAJORITY.

That would be 70% or something.

Neither of my parents drive. I don't drive. So the VAST MAJORITY of my family don't drive! In't statistics lovely?

I do want to learn to drive, as it's a useful skill to possess. And i'd be able to drive out to places some of you lot live in, and give you grief out on the trails...

But I wouldn't drive about in London. No point. Need a motor occasionally? Hire one.

Example: t'other week, I was coming back from my swim. About 1/2 a mile from my home, I saw a (fayt) woman get in a car. I got back to my house, taking a slightly different route from the road, and she was pulling up, to go into a friend's house.

HALF A ****ING MILE. If she walked those sort of distances, she wouldn't be so fayt. BTW, no disabled badge in car, and she seemed to move perfectly ok. Just ****ing lazy.

It's that sort of attitude that I hate. That, and the 'oh I'm too good for public transport' selfishness.

GRRRRR!!!

I need a cuppa. Can someone run down to the shop to get some milk for me? It's only downstairs.Ta.

It's that sort of attitude that I hate.

Me too.

That, and the 'oh I'm too good for public transport' selfishness.

I just cant stand public transport, I hate being in close proximity with random people. Though not a scientific test I know, I spent the last 9 years commuting great distances on public transport and in cars. The years where I had to use PT I was ill more often than I was well, I had two instances of people losing control of their bowels and bladder on teh seat in front of me, I had countless fights break out around me. No ta.

Coffee needed, I'm off! Good day to you all!

I agree, removing some of the cars would be great. But who chooses who gets to stay and who doesn't?

I should!

'No, don't like your face; sorry, no car for you. NEXT. No, too fayt; you can't have a car unless you lose 3 stone. NEXT. No, you're a Chelsea fan; lifetime ban. NEXT. You have 4 kids? Well, is that my fault? Sell a couple. Denied. NEXT. you live in the country? Then grow some potatoes or something instead. Not even a tractor. NEXT...'

Ah, I can but dream....

I just cant stand public transport, I hate being in close proximity with random people

??????? What a snob!!!

You'd never drive again, under my regime. And you'd be sentenced to traveling on Public Transport for all eternity!!!!

Well, RudeBoy, that went quite well, I thought. You were far more reasonable and restrained than normal. Well done!

Gibber.

??????? What a snob!!!

Its not snobbish, well maybe a [i]little[/i], but generally I just dont like people. I hate neighbours because they all make a racket and are unthoughtful etc. I like being with the people I choose, or alone - not forced into places with other people. Not in a "ooh im scared of the public" sort of way, just in a "God I hate having to sit scrunched up while 4 people push past you, 3 sneeze on you" sort of way. Oh and the fact that public transport has never yet, IME, been cheaper than driving, or faster point to point, until I met the Glasgow subway - now that is fast and frequent enough to be acceptably empty.

Ah well, (sip)...mmmmmm, on with work...

I cant spell either it seems, hence many edits

Because you never win anything by going on the offensive and forcing yourself on the majority, you just become a target for abuse.

Good job the Gay Pride movement never followed that piece of advice.

I think you should learn to drive rudeboy, after all that white van is just cluttering up your drive.

In answer to the OP (finally) - yes there is a Bristol Critical Mass. I've never been on it though.

Good job the Gay Pride movement never followed that piece of advice

No comment. Talk about comparing apples and oranges.

And for whoever wrote the tag, I've not missed any point, I just have a different point of view 🙂

I'd be merciless...

'GET AHT OF MY FAHKIN' WAY, YOU FAAAHKIN' CAAAAHHHNT!!!'

'All right darlin'; d'you want some or what?'

'Cor, look at the arse on THAYT!'

'Send 'em back 'ome!'

'Where d'you faahkin' learn to drive? Faahkin' Bongo-Bongo Laynd?'

Etc. Continued gratuitous stereotyping of White Vayn Mayn...

Rudeboy: what's with the additional y in some of your words?

White Vayn Mayn

My experience of London CM from a riders pov was pretty negative, we bumbled around really slowly, clogged up a roundabout and looked like dicks - the end.

Far better to cajole than to act up - why not have a tax benefit to not driving, a direct payment which would show up on your payslip at the end of the month or week. Obviously this would need administration, but incentives have been shown in a few studies to be the most effective way to get people to consider changing their mode of transport. A pound a day to leave your car at home!

'Vayn'. S'proper way to say 'van'. Try it; you might like it!

'Vayn'. S'proper way to say 'van'. Try it; you might like it!

I always read it as "Va Yan" - like Penelope Pitstop shouting for "Hey Elp".

Well that's just silly.

How utterly ridiculous.

So, is vain, pronounced like vain, to rhyme with train?

I have a £6.20 a day incentive to let someone else have my place on the train...

😉

No no no. 😯

Somewhere between 'van' and 'vain'. [i]VAYN[/i].

I have a £6.20 a day incentive to let someone else have my place on the train...

I have a several thousand pound incentive to not learn to drive and buy a car.

I could have an extra £2k/yr not to have a fully financed car

nah ........ I'll keep the car

I think the issues this country has with saving and spending indicate how poorly alot of people rationalise savings over payments. Receiving a payment is rewarding to most, not spending the money in the first place is rewarding to only a few.

It's not so much car ownership that is the problem, just selfish and needless use of them.

right im not going to lie, i have not read all 77 reply's, but was there an answer to my question?

right im not going to lie, i have not read all 77 reply's, but was there an answer to my question?

about a dozen replies up - Mr Agreeable

thank you Mr Agreeable!

Sorry, Gohan. 🙁