[Closed] in the Guardian

My wife is also from outside the UK, although she holds a BNO I have looked at getting her a full passport but TBH it doesn't seem to be worth the effort to get it as she is not that bothered.

As a British citizen, I had the expectation that marrying someone from abroad would automatically give them the right to become a British citizen

Is this the article where the lady in question went to get her passport request processed but missed out a load of documentation that was requested and is unhappy that she is being asked to re-apply?

Not sure who the are in the guardian that you refer to but from reading that article the only I could identify were the people working at the home office who rejected the application. Utterly ludicrous and the only thing they didn't comply with was sending in their passports which they needed but sending in solicitor approved photo copies instead which were meant to be acceptable.

the only I could identify were the people working at the home office who rejected the application.

That was pretty much the impression I got. And it's not unreasonable to expect that you'd be eligible for British citizenship automatically if you've been living in the UK for 24 years with a British husband and two British kids.

A somewhat misleading headline. Woman has right to live in the UK as an EU citizen. Decides to apply for citizenship of the UK, as at some point in the future it may leave the EU. Someone processing it cocks up. Process for dealing with cock-ups is poor.

Alternative headline "Government department makes mistake, lacks effective complaint procedure", or "Law on spouses from EU countries may need changing if UK leaves EU".

I sympathise with the woman in the story. My Mrs is Spanish so we are naturally worried about all this Brexit bol***ks. More so, if the shoe is on the other foot i.e. we both want to move to Spain some day, UK citizens may find it harder to live and work in the EU due to punitive immigration rules.

I take it you're referring to the in the Home Office?

I hadn't realised it was so difficult to access the UK officially?
I wonder if Frau Mehr is worried yet?

As for the woman I would presume she already has indefinite leave to remain?

Those Home Office appeal procedures seem very Kafkaeque. 😯

The person who wrote "As you appear to have no alternative basis of stay in the United Kingdom you should now make arrangements to leave” to a Dutch national seems the most appropriate target for any criticism...

Just a minute - did the Home Office not consult Jamba? He has repeatedly said that there is no problem for EU people such as his wife to stay in the UK.

why has the thread title been edited? censorship on stw shocker!

Special snowflake in "thinking the rules don't apply to her" shocker

[img] [/img]

She was told the reason for the rejection was because she had not included her original passport.

In her complaint, Hawkins points out that she included a solicitor-approved photocopy of her passport – which is permissible under the rules – plus a covering letter to explain why she could not be without her passport for the four to six months it takes to process.

She said the application form included a box for reasons for not including a valid passport as long as it was due to circumstances beyond your control. “Clearly my father dying did not qualify in the Home Office’s eyes as beyond my control,” said Hawkins.

Special snowflake in "thinking the rules don't apply to her" shocker

In order for 'snowflake' edgy buzz meme to be valid I take it that she also had neither her EEA card or a valid copy of Passport?

Politicking, so dishonest isn't it? It's like a co-dependent triangle of hate between journalists and readers. By the time the full facts are in nobody cares much because we're all having too much fun feeding our prejudice with the same old stereotypes and strawmen.

Lifer, read the rules, that applies for applications on the basis of long residence, but as is clearly stated above does not extend to applicants from EEA/Switzerland

You're also welcome to look for the bit permitting copies, which seems to only allow those certified via registry office.

Her solicitor is shit too 😆

Is that the rule that says:
"Your passports OR say why you are unable to provide one on page 24"

The complicated thing actually seems to be that there is no obvious route for an EU citizen in the UK to safeguard their status - they are in a Catch 22 situation where their status right now does not provide a clear means to apply, but apart from saying Brexit means Brexit the govt has not clarified what their future status will be, or how they should prepare.

why has the thread title been edited? censorship on stw shocker!

My post has also been edited to remove the word that was in the title. The word which I beleive also means idiot. Wouldn't have thought it was a banned word but why hasn't it been stared out rather than just removed as my post makes no sense now

"the word" has a specific medical meaning although that condition's pretty much non-existent in nations with adequate prenatal care

I'm fairly sure that "idiot", "moron" etc also can be used literally to imply specific levels of impairment - purely in terms of intellectual development

noun
1.
informaloffensive
a stupid person (used as a general term of abuse).
2.
MEDICINEdated
a person who is physically deformed and has learning difficulties because of congenital thyroid deficiency.

well I did not know that. but if it used in the first sense and everyone reading it pretty much believes that's it's only meaning and would likely never use it as an insult referring to the 2nd definition it seems a bit heavy handed to edit it out.

While we're on words.... can I propose that anyone using the term 'snowflake', as it now seems to be the default term of abuse to dismiss the opinions of anyone to the left of Nick Griffin, be taken from this place to a book club in Islington where they be force-fed organic quinoa and fairtrade yoghurt until they explode?

I'm friends with a Kuwaiti refugee currently living in Scotland with his brother. My friend is in the process of having his asylum claim denied, even though his brother, who came with him, has had his claim accepted. My friend receives a letter every week telling him he is going to be deported, either to France (who will send him back to Kuwait) or to Germany (who will send him back to Kuwait).
If he is sent back to Kuwait, he will likely be arrested, tortured and probably killed. His crime? Being born a Bidoun.
Being well versed in the Kafkaesque mess that is UK asylum rules, I have assured my friend that there is little likelihood of him actually being deported and that this is the Home Office's way of trying to make people leave without taking responsibility for them.
Needless to say, my friend is very depressed, as would anyone be receiving weekly threats to be sent to their death. He is one of thousands of people in the UK right now who are faced with such terrors, where are their Grauniad headlines?
Or does it only matter when white people's lives are affected?

Honestly, our immigration system is a beaurocratic nightmare. A couple of administrative cock ups happening to a Dutch lady pale into insignificance compared to the deliberate abuse of that beurocracy to harrass and intimidate the weakest, most vulnerable people in our country.

Sounds par for the course in this country at the moment. Perish the thought we might convey to the outside world anything other than insular, mean-spirited and small-minded nastiness.

Perish the thought we might convey to the outside world anything other than insular, mean-spirited and small-minded nastiness

Living outside of the UK that is not the impression I see that the UK gives to the outside world, the UK seems to be incredibly fair compared for example where I currently reside?

Give it another 6 months....

Sounds par for the course in this country at the moment. Perish the thought we might convey to the outside world anything other than insular, mean-spirited and small-minded nastiness.

That's a shame, those qualities were the only ones I could think of when trying to compile a list of 'things Britain is actually a world-leader in'.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-many-non-british-based-teams-have-won-an-f1-championship ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-many-non-british-based-teams-have-won-an-f1-championship[/url]

Try not to choke whilst swallowing that with a mug of your chosen artisan negativity.

Try not to choke whilst swallowing that with a mug of your chosen artisan negativity.

OK - just as soon as I work out what the hell it's got to do with anything.

Needless to say, my friend is very depressed, as would anyone be receiving weekly threats to be sent to their death. He is one of thousands of people in the UK right now who are faced with such terrors, where are their Grauniad headlines?

Fill your boots: https://www.google.es/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site:theguardian.com+uk+asylum+seeker+claim

Special snowflake

Yeah yeah. This is just an expression used by misanthropic, authoritarian virgins to refer to anyone who isn't a misanthropic, authoritarian virgin.

I stand corrected, mogrim, never really been a big reader of newspapers.
I think my point kinda still stands. I really don't foresee a situation where a Dutch woman, married to an English man, with English children, who has lived in England for decades will ever face deportation. Yes, it's shit for her having to fill out a few forms and make several appeals, but that's all part of being British, I mean, has she ever had to ring BT customer services? 😉

+1 Fin, great post.

We've started our next marriage vusa applicatiin akready, which is due in 6 minths. We're going so far as to chase down housing authority building plans as evidence that our flat meets the housing requirements.

There is also a one day application for various visa applications, if they do an expidited permanent residencecy application then had the woman paid a few hundred quid extra she could have gone in personally and had the application approved in a matter of few hours - allowing her to provide a passport.

DrJ - Member

OK - just as soon as I work out what the hell it's got to do with anything.

You can't relate it to the post immediately before it?
No?
<scratches "[i]basic comprehension[/i]" off dannyh's list>

😆

My understanding.

She did NOT apply for citizenship as if she get's a British passport the Dutch require her to give up her citizenship. I can understand her not wanting to do that.

Having to stand in line in the scenario that in 2019 she'll have to wait a bit as Europeans won't have priority access. As the OP says imagine the ski-weekend hassles daaaarling.

Folks you have at least a year to think about this, nothing will change till 2019 at the earliest. My ex-wife stayed in the US for 18 months without formal approval, it's really not a big deal.

If you take a step back from the specifics of her case, it says a lot about the generally dysfuncitonal nature of the Home Office- it's a byzantine process in which errors are commonplace and there's no effective way to deal with them, a killer combination. It's taken years of hard work to get the place running as badly as it does. And this is just business as usual- where's the capability to deal with challenges of brexit?

Having to stand in line in the scenario that in 2019 she'll have to wait a bit as Europeans won't have priority access. As the OP says imagine the ski-weekend hassles daaaarling.

Yes that's tough. What's tougher is not being able to work, get health care, or retire with your family - none of which are guaranteed as things stand.

My ex-wife stayed in the US for 18 months without formal approval, it's really not a big deal.

Aah yes - anecdotes from a (known unreliable) bloke on the internet - a perfect basis for decision. What if this person had wanted to work, or had fallen ill, or drive a car, or get insurance?

where's the capability to deal with challenges of brexit?

Non-existent, as you well know. Without some radical change in the application process there will be a backlog of literally decades. I am hoping that at some point common sense will prevail and there will be some sort of simplification. Whether that actually helps MrsJ or not remains to be seen.

I really don't foresee a situation where a Dutch woman, married to an English man, with English children, who has lived in England for decades will ever face deportation

You may not foresee it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't going to happen, either to her, or to people in less favourable circumstances. Many EU countries already have quite strict rules about "family reunification" and the papers in, for example, Denmark have lots of stories about non-EU spouses unable to live with their husband or wife in Denmark. These things happen You don't know about them because you haven't been exposed to that situation.

You don't know about them because you haven't been exposed to that situation.

How do you know?

How do you know?

If you had been exposed to the situation, then you'd know. Simples.

I've spent a lot of time studying immigration systems, both at home and abroad. I work with a lot of immigrants, both from the EU and further afield.
In my spare time I help out refugees, both in a practical and advisory capacity.
I've had first hand experience of helping people negotiate our ridiculous visa system. Yes, it's a worrying time to be an EU citizen in the UK right now, but we're talking about a system which couldn't deport an extremist cleric for years. I sincerely doubt that a woman with her whole family resident here is in any danger. After all, were leaving the EU, not repealing the HRA. At least not yet...

@fin25 - respect for that (seriously, not sarcastically). I think you're right that such a person will not be deported. What is more likely is that someone who has not been here so long, does not have a secure job, will face a lot of difficulties in keeping a normal stable family life than they experienced before, all for nothing.