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Craft Beers Price!
 

[Closed] Craft Beers Price!

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I noticed that Sainsburys over the last few months have pushed out half the perfectly good 500ml bottled ales and replaced them with 330ml cans of 'Craft Beers'. And the bottled ales that are left are mainly the mainstream ones.

Now these craft beers may be lovely and tasty but it seems you a) get less and b) pay a lot more for them. I assume the supermarkets love the profit on them.

Does having the cans printed with snazzy graphics designed by a A level student after a night on drugs make them 50% betterer! 🙂

#slightlymiffedoldduffer


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:26 pm
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Beer out of cans IMO / INE tastes nasty anyway. Its a widespread move the move to 330ml but one I will not jooin.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:29 pm
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I’ve noticed this and not just in Sainsbury’s. I think the reason they are in tins is to help with freshness; helpful for those fresh beers with a bit of sediment. But I could’ve read it wrong.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:32 pm
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economics init
The craft beers sell well, cost less money to move around, less space on shelves, better margin of return
The mainstream producers are moving into this market too either with their own faux hipster brands or buying up craft producers.
I'm more bothered about taste than volume so personally i'm happy with this


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:32 pm
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A 330ml can is the same size as a standard Bud/Mexibeer/Continental Lager bottle, so it's not that uncommon a size. It does appear to be £3 a can vs £2.50 a 500ml bottle... although many of the 'craft' ales can be bonkers strong, so what you lose on the volume, you gain in buckets of hops and ethanol...


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:35 pm
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Whats worse is whens it's a newfangled shitey IPA lol.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:36 pm
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Morrisons have a much better range of ales and beers. They're also not ditching butchers, fish mongers etc in favour of wrapping everything in plastic.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:38 pm
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Find a local beer shop or, better still, a small indy brewery with a shop.
The move to tins is being driven by the weight of glass; freight costs and all that stuff.
To quote Bill Clinton...'It's the economy, stupid'; it usually is.
Beers of Europe are worth a look.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:38 pm
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It's the price difference that annoys me - they can work out 80-90% more expensive per ml - and there can't be that much difference in production costs.

Perhaps the mark-up is to cover beard maintenance for the brewery employees.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:39 pm
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From my own dubious home brewing making the very hoppy beers, especially with dry hopping can end up quite expensive to make. Certainly making a basic bitter at home is cheap but a big mix of fancy hops adds up in the end.

Plus beer duty scales by alcohol so the typically stronger canned craft beers will be more.

It's nice to have the choice, there are some lovely bottled and canned beers about. We have some good pubs nearby doing hand pull & keg takeaway. Hopefully soon we'll be able to drink them in the pub again - sensibly/safely as well as technically legally.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:39 pm
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For the 'how much?!?' brigade - I've got a 330ml can of beer in my fridge that cost me £8


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:41 pm
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Morrisons have a much better range of ales and beers.

Second that. I find Sainsburys generally have the worst selection out of the traditional supermarkets, but then I try and buy direct from the local breweries if I can, which perhaps isn't quite as cheap, but I guess helps them a bit more.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:42 pm
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Cuts weight, more easily recycled, fresher beer and, for me at least, a preferable portion size.

I for one am happy to pop cans in the blue bin rather than have to traipse down to the village hall.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:43 pm
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and there can’t be that much difference in production costs.

My sister was the finance director of a mid-size craft brewers - there's a MASSIVE difference in the production costs between the craft brewers doing relatively small batches and the big brewers with their production facilities.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:43 pm
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Aldi and Lidl for the win, they may not have the same ponce factor but I find their 330 ml cans quite nice and they do some others that have a less than offensive slant to them that I can get on board with

Actually, I always keep an eye in Homebargains too, they do some half decent beers from time to time that are stocked in Sainsburys for double and triple the price. Just last year I stocked up on Brooklyn and Founders IPA's for about 80p a can, but it is your Donald Duck what they have


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:45 pm
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Has beer gone the same way as sugary things? Like, what’s happened to Stella? Used to be a nice lager, picked a four pack up recently and it was like pish. Wish they’d just put the price up rather than mess with the product. See also Special Brew, Coco Pops etc.

Do like that Brewdog Double Punk tho.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:47 pm
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There's a number of reasons driving the change to cans, cost and environmental impact (bauxite mining excluded unless made from reycled aluminium). The cost of transporting glass compared to aluminium cans is considerable diferent. More cardboard or plastic packing is needed for glass to protect it during transit. Glass is heavier than aluminium, using aluminium will reduce the fuel costs for the comparable amount of product shipped. A standard can is 115mm tall a standard (non stumpy) 330ml bottle is 225mm in height, therefore you can stack more in the space. 330ml cans are more stable on a pallet than 330ml glass bottles.

It's why you'll find that a lot of table wine is shipped to the UK in IBC's/palecons and bottled and labelled over here, rather than at origin. It's way cheaper to ship a 1000 l plastic container than 1300 glass bottles.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:48 pm
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Agreed with all of the above - Morrisons does have local beers (we get hebden breweries in N Manchester) and Co-op do the same, it's driven by the depot your local shop is serviced from.

Better to support your local indy brewery (I think I've kept Brightside afloat during lockdown 🙂 )

Beer tastes just as good from a can as it does from a bottle once it's poured out into a glass (willing to die on that hill I am) and cans weigh less. AndrewL is right about the hops, they are properly expensive when you consider that they are essentially a fancy beer tea bag.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:50 pm
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I fancy a beer now.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:50 pm
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Like, what’s happened to Stella? Used to be a nice lager,

No it didn't.

picked a four pack up recently and it was like pish.

Ever was it thus.

You're just not 16 anymore.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:51 pm
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fresher beer

bollocks

although many of the ‘craft’ ales can be bonkers strong, so what you lose on the volume, you gain in buckets of hops and ethanol…

Yeah, the incomprehensively popular "strong as buggery, sour as ****" taste, as popularised by Brewdog.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:53 pm
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**double post, not had one of them for a while**


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:55 pm
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Cans are better. Modern cans have a coating inside so you don't get any metallic taste transferring. Keeps it fresher, blocks light, seals completely. They're regarded as more of the premium option in craft beer - lots of it doesn't keep so well but it lasts longer in cans, and it needs a fair bit of investment to set up for canning rather than chucking it in bottles like a scaled-up homebrewer.

As others have said, doing smaller batches with good (read: expensive) ingredients costs more than chucking out millions of litres a year from a factory in Burton upon Trent.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:56 pm
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@ihn Spot the difference?

**double post, not had one of them for a while**

Ah but it wasn't, they were two different posts.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 5:56 pm
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Like, what’s happened to Stella? Used to be a nice lager,

No it didn’t.

Yes it did when it was imported from Belgium and 5.2%. I'll agree the current brewed, sorry ruined in the UK is woeful. A good chunk of the so-called "premium" lagers dropped their strength a few years ago.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:04 pm
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fresher beer

Double bollocks. It all goes through the pasteuriser which is the biggest flavour killer of them all!

Keeps it fresher, blocks light, seals completely. They’re regarded as more of the premium option in craft beer

Only certain beers are affected by light hence the reason some are in brown glass as this filters out the UV etc. Beers in clear glass are are so full of chemicals it no longer matters. People fall for the marketing bollocks of cans. At the end of the day they are cheaper to buy than several tonnes of glass.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:04 pm
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Special Brew, Coco Pops

Breakfast of champions


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:08 pm
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Sounds like cans are a genius option if some need brown glass to stay fresh and the alternative is clear glass because the beer is full of preservatives.

I havent personally seen a brewer place freshness over environmental cost in promoting cans.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:09 pm
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this is the spiel we've come up with for cans over bottles

Convenience
Beverage cans are valued for their convenience and portability. Lightweight and durable, they chill faster and are an ideal fit for active lifestyles – hiking, camping, and other outdoor adventures – without the risk of accidental breakage. Cans are also perfect for use in outdoor venues – from stadiums, to concerts, to sporting events – where glass bottles are not permitted, allowing customers to enjoy their favorite beer whenever and wherever they want.

Product Protection
Taste and personality are critical for craft brew brands, making the protection of those attributes essential. Metal offers a powerful barrier against light and oxygen, two key enemies of craft brews and many other beverages as they can have an adverse effect on flavor and freshness. Beverage cans also help enhance craft beer brands on the shelf. The larger surface area of cans, for example, offers more space to promote your brand with eye-catching graphics, attracting consumer attention in the store.

Sustainability
Beverage cans don’t just look good; they’re something consumers can feel good about buying. Metal packaging is 100% and infinitely recyclable, meaning it can be recycled again and again without loss of performance or integrity. In fact, the can that is recycled today can be back on shelves in as little as 60 days.

Brewdog are a major customer.

Personally I prefer cans; it's a better size for me. And a small amount of well flavoured, higher in alcohol beer is better than a session ale. That just bloats me


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:13 pm
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Yes it did when it was imported from Belgium and 5.2%

The 5.2% was UK brewed to 2008,at which point it was dropped to 4.8%, then 4.6 this year.

Its been UK brewed since 1976 though you could buy "imported" as a premium option. (but not on draft since 76)

The recipe change in the Belgian version took place in 1993 when they moved to the automated brewery in luven and dropped the bitterness from 33 IBU to the current 20.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:16 pm
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1976

Que?


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:24 pm
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Cans are better for festivals innit?


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:25 pm
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Get thee to Aldi:

William Brothers BREL Belgian style IPA or Klute West Coast IPA

£1.25 a tin and blumming lovely !

The Brel tastes like a Pelforth Brune


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:26 pm
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Thanks for that dangerbrain. I do remember the imported stuff tasting better.

As you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject, why do breweries drop the alcohol content?


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:41 pm
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I believe modern cans are plastic-lined, which actually makes them harder to recycle.

There's a good 'cans vs bottles' explanation here.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:42 pm
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why do breweries drop the alcohol content?

To reduce the tax they have to pay. That’s where the names 60,70,80 & 90 shilling come from. It was how much tax they paid on the ABV.

Edit - In Stella’a case it was maybe an attempt to lose the “wife beater” nickname!


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 6:54 pm
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I dunno - beer drinkers have never had it so good and we still find something to whinge about. 😀

I’ve had a few mixed cases from Flavourly - even some of the lagers are lovely - delivered within a couple of days generally for between £1.25 and £1.50 a can. Tesco do quite a few of their 4 packs at 2 for £9, a good selection of the 440ml “specials” which are a bit pricier, and still have a great selection of bottled ales for the duddies at £6 for four.

I agree that Sainsbury’s are shite at beer. If yours is getting slightly better recently, you can thank me as I’ve been badgering them to at least attempt to be as good as Asda and Tesco. You cannot beat their own brand craft ale and lager, the Depot No.90 2% lager and bitter. £1 for four cans of school night beer. 😂


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 7:02 pm
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There is also a giant difference in production costs when you scale up to the international corporation size - the economies of scale allow you to buy some seriously efficient kit that has a massive capex that can only be reclaimed with huge volumes. And with beer, there is always a trade off on "flavour" when you can use cheaper ingredients that drop the sensory quality as well as increased filtration/pasteurisation and so on that reduces quality but helps with the commercial side - beer losses, shelf life etc.
It's all a spectrum -depends where you drop that pin.

Also, the packaging and tax makes up a huge percentage of the cost of a beer - far more than the cost of the liquid in your bottle/can etc. A sankey keg (that goes to a pub) costs about £25 and can be used a few hundred times with refurbishments.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 7:08 pm
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As for beards, I actually made a whisky fermented with yeast and bacteria from my beard. I also made one with a microflora swab off of my cat's tummy.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 7:09 pm
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I prefer to support small, local breweries - might not be cheaper, but they make more money than me giving it to a big supermarket. I bought a couple of small bottles of whisky barrel conditioned stouts @ £6 each - yet to try them - Mrs DB thought I was mad


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 7:19 pm
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Yeh tesco are good. Started stocking some specials from Vocation and other similar breweries. Sainsbury’s are awful - just a poor selection of ales that aren’t particularly nice.

I am happy to pay a bit more these days as I might only have two beers over a weekend so it is something to enjoy!


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 7:23 pm
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Our local Lidl is carrying a range of German Craft beers made by Steam Brew, there's a Chocolate Stout, Session IPA, Imperial IPA at 7.8%abv and Red Beer in 500ml cans for 90 pence a piece. Just one drawback, we're in Southern Cataluña 😁


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 7:27 pm
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I am actually nearly at the end of the process of setting up my own, mega-niche pico brewery. As part of my business planning I actually used STW forumite-esque folk as a likely customer. People looking for provenance, mega-locality, anti-commercialist seeking people who hardly drink but when they do they want something special. I'll post about it when I'm ready.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 7:29 pm
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why do breweries drop the alcohol content?

Tax, production cost and mostly customer taste.

Sometimes they get it wrong and shed customers but, your average UK wet sales larger drinker is likely (a) going to drink Stella because that's what they drink, (b) going to drink Stella because the alternative is carling.

Drinking in general is an ageing market, your typical drinker* still wants to drink 8 pints whilst watching the football, feel OK in the morning and repeat tomorrow etc. That bloke drinking Stella in front of the fruit machine? He's not 20 anymore. He'd be looking for another brand or drinking less. You can still sell him his half a dozen beers a day at the same (or higher) price if you drop the % and he'll come back tomorrow. Keep it at 5.2 and he has 3 pints instead.

Craft beer is the opposite end of that market, sell two beers to someone who'll spend an hour an a half on each but you still need to turn over enough to pay wages and make a profit. To do that you charge more, knowing they'll only drink 2x 2/3rd pints you can make them 12% if that's what you think is right for the beer rather than brewing to a target % to keep your customer upright long enough to order a gallon.

*as distinct from someone who it so happens drinks beer. It's not specifically a beer thing either, the younger generation are much more likely to eat /wear/drink etc things from small brands they identify with than huge brands they don't, apple being the obvious exception which proves the rule.


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 8:21 pm
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My sister was the finance director of a mid-size craft brewers

There's the issue right there 😉

Craft brewers don't have finance directors, they have brewers who are slightly less shit with numbers who in turn have a drawer in their office stuffed full of cash and petty cash vouchers


 
Posted : 10/12/2020 8:29 pm
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