Forum menu
And with those cuts and after their greater involvement and huge contracts, who will step in to fill those 'failing' services?!
Starting salaries in the public sector is a red herring. Plenty of civil servants get a pay rise when the minimum wage goes up.
I've done 18 years in the civil service and a recent promotion to quite a responsible position took me to that £30,800 figure as my gross salary. Just accepted a decent sounding three year deal negotiated last year before pay caps were announced, but funded by "efficiency savings" and giving up leave and other long standing benefits which proved quite divisive.
Lots of people deserve decent pay rises on the back of this last year. As others have said "nurses shouldn't get one because I haven't " plays into the governments divide and conquer strategy
Its worse than that each 1% extra for nurses is £174 million cost to the treasury (us) or 76% of a dodgy PPE contract to one of their mates. (percentage based on £230 million for PPE).
Looks like there was planning for a 2.1% pay rise. What's the betting that is where it lands...
https://twitter.com/ChrisCEOHopson/status/1368083663192227840?s=19
The Express says the nurses are lucky to have a job and not to have experienced pay cuts. They've had endless paycuts and unpaid work. There are people who absorb this sort of odious bile and spew it out (one benefit of LD in a Tory area is not having exposure to these aerosols). They move the debate to the right to make an insultingly shitty offer look like a generous compromise. You never know. Johnson make claim he ' listened to the people'.
the mastermind ?
Comparison with my teacher salary. I’ve started (0)on 27.5k and I’m still effectively in training. Next year if I get a job (1)it goes up to 33k. Year 6 after probation is currently 41.5k. Not a clue if wages are going up from August though.
They will front it out. Big majority and the right wing tabloid press will support them. The shortfalls created by those tax avoidance schemes party owners exploit has to be made up from somewhere
The 12% is classic Tory management by apparently reasonable pronouncement. It's 3.something percent a year?
It feels like the government thinking is jobs are going to be harder to come by so people will take what they are given.
The challenge is getting the narrative away from sector vs sector to cracking down on avoidance and fraud.
Just on the wider public sector. Having just gone through a Covid related restructure - it was straight to job cuts. All the efficiency savings that could be made had been wrung out of the organisation over the last decade. In the last fifteen years, when I've mostly been in the public sector, it's only ever been cuts. There will be a lot of organisations in the same boat.
You don’t need a degree. I agree with everything else you said though.
I think it was 2009 when it became an all degree profession, Nurses who were Nurses prior to that didn’t need one.
Junior doctor, MRes*, ICU, long shifts, £30k.
compare to the scottish appproach.
£500 bonus now
1% rise now as interim
Promise to implement the pay review body in full
A staff nurse in Scotland will get around £1000 gross extra this year compared to england
Comparison with my teacher salary. I’ve started (0)on 27.5k and I’m still effectively in training. Next year if I get a job (1)it goes up to 33k. Year 6 after probation is currently 41.5k. Not a clue if wages are going up from August though.
Where do you teach?
M6 is about 36k and U3 41k isnt it
If I was the government I would:
1. Claim that if there's a problem with pay it will show up in recruitment and retention.
2. In an entirely unrelated move, reduce entry qualifications for nursing.
Where do you teach?
Scotland - we get more than English counterparts.
Scotland – we get more than English counterparts.
Quite a lot more tbh.
I've never earned more than £18k a year, I went 10 years without a pay rise, l retired three years ago at 55, how did I do it? I'm married to someone who worked for the NHS.
I think it was 2009 when it became an all degree profession, Nurses who were Nurses prior to that didn’t need one.
and the problem is now my "dinosaur" wife 30+ years experience can't progress without a degree and all the youngster coming through with degrees are progressing up the greasy career ladder, many think because they have a bit of paper they are somehow better than my wife. Yet who do they turn to when it all goes to shit?
Couple of hundred years ago the saying was "god and the navy we adore... when danger threatens and not before!"
Feels like it sums up the way the NHS is treated these days, sadly.
Clap clap 🤬 clap 🙄
Not that relevant to the thrust of the debate on the value of professions, but I think the £30,800 figure is referenced by ONS as "household" disposable income after taxes and benefits ONS
A casual google suggest the "majority" of households are dual income, with at least 30% having two full-time earners
D">Modern Families Index
If it makes anyone feel any better, it doesn't seem to be referencing "your" salary alone.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
I am not sure of the full details but my wife is furious at the RCN moaning about this. Apparently they sold many nurses down the road with the last pay deal they made. She move to GMB because of it.
One of the many reasons I never took part in the “clap for the NHS”.
I’m nothing to do with the NHS, if ongoing pay increases are not forthcoming, I definitely feel an “all staff COVID bonus” should be paid.
@danstw13 - could you elaborate on your post please, i cannot work out if you are anti-nhs or anti-government.
That is a genuine question, not someone trying to be a cock.
^^ I took it to be pro NHS?
I never clapped either, viewed it as a complete waste of time and cheap stunt that has proved nothing
I still think that in the last year, a better prioritisation of health would have avoided the situation of nurses feeling shafted.
An earlier and tighter lockdown + closing borders , for example would surely have reduced the pressure more effectively than building nightingale hospitals.
And £25k is actually 30% more than minimum wage!
Where does the payrise come from — Higher tax? More borrowing?
For the record, i think that MRes junior doctor is underpaid.
I never clapped either, viewed it as a complete waste of time and cheap stunt that has proved nothing
A lot of us on here were making the point that they needed adequate staffing and funding rather than rounds of applause, and the proof of the government's gratitude would be seen this year.
We were right to doubt them.
Sunak will introduce a unique personal tax allowance tax code instead of ~£16000 for NHS and other keyworkers, as a thanks for their efforts over the last 12 months. 😆
Hmm as well as a 3 month Sabbatical DIY leave at 80% of wages,
for services on the “Front Line” only seems fair.
(Obvs should be applicable for all key workers)
I am not sure of the full details but my wife is furious at the RCN moaning about this. Apparently they sold many nurses down the road with the last pay deal
The head of the RCN resigned over that. Essentially they were tricked by the government. The way the deal was presented lent itself to interpretation that made it look more generous then it actually was. The government then said "glad that's agreed" and rejigged the pay scale tables to a sensible layout (shifting next year's figures down by one row and the year after by two) and deleted the old pdfs from the NHSemployers website.
Where does the payrise come from — Higher tax?
Yes. If you want good things (NHS) they have to be paid for.
Yes. If you want good things (NHS) they have to be paid for.
Maybe from some of the money given to Serco, or what about from that massive Brexit dividend? More seriously, get it the same place we get all our money - print it.
Worse than that, all the levelling up funds are only allocated to constituencies with Tory MPs. Not so much as a single extra penny for any Labour constituency.
Quite incredible how utterly corrupt they are.
They don't even pretend to hide it any more.
Has it happened yet?
What do we think it should be?
Well, I know what I think it should be - what with my bro being a paramedic - but what could be reasonable afforded?
3%? 4%? I really don’t know..
Forgive me for posting this but it was sent Oct 20 and is a reminder of the sort of people the government is insulting with their 1%. Young Dr * works long shifts and gets £30k and owes a fortune in student loans.
'Good Afternoon,
Last Friday I attended the surgery on an urgent appointment, as directed by Dr * On arrival, the doctor took me into his surgery to conduct some tests. He immediately informed me I was in a really poorly condition and expressed his concerns to get me transferred to A&E urgently. Naturally I was taken aback with the doctor’s concerns but obviously took his guidance and agreed for an emergency ambulance to be called. I was then taken to Salford Royal Hospital Intensive Care Unit where they explained I had next to zero blood pressure, a massive prostate infection and along with these issues, I had contracted Sepsis. I spent 3 days on the ICU unit, with the best treatment any one person could ever wish for, they were fantastic, nothing whatsoever being too much trouble And being informed that I had potentially been 12-24 hours from passing away, had I not been referred so quickly. After the 3 day period in ICU, I was transferred down to the wards and was treated with exactly the same levels of care there, finally being allowed to return home last night, to continue my recovery. The purpose of this email is to say a massive thanks not only to young Dr *, do not underestimate in any shape or form that you actually saved my life last weekend, for this, I will be eternally grateful but also, behind every good doctor there is a winning team. So from the lady who took the initial call from my wife in the morning, to the lady who sat with me whilst I lay in the spare surgery, until the ambulance arrived, I’d just like to say the biggest thanks to all of you, I, Along with the whole of my family, truly, truly are so very grateful, thank you so much for everything. Best wishes and eternal thanks'
They don’t even pretend to hide it any more
This was quite an interesting read
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56283199
It's not just the NHS is it, it's all public services are underfunded and as a result understaffed. Yes, we can print money to pay for it, but if you really don't think public services aren't worth a few pence more in tax, I'm not sure you really appreciate the principle. (Obviously not giving billions to your mates reduces any tax rise for the rest of us)
@Morecash, a lovely throwaway line in that report about Cheadle, one of the 5 towns that probably shouldn't have got the money but did, which purely coincidentally all have Tory MPs:"
"But ministers said it was primed for investment because of recent transport improvements in the area"
"Why are we spending this money that's intended for the most deprived areas in an area which is less deprived? Why because it's already had recent investment, of course! That makes it a better option for more investment". Shouldn't you give this money to places that haven't had similiar investment? "Well why would we do that? I don't undertand the question frankly"
Couldn't make it up
£37bn/1.3m NHS employees = £28k
Boris is doubling-down on the 'We can only afford 1%' message.
IIRC correctly he stated that he would never forget the debt of gratitude he owed to the NHS when they 'saved his life' back when he caught Covid19. He really has a short memory and doesn't give any shit whatsoever about how this is going to destroy morale in an already beaten up NHS. I have a few friends who work in various parts of the service and they are all saying that it's not just the fact that the pay rise is low (although that is an issue), it's the way they have gone about it by sneaking the news out quietly after the big headlines have been printed. The staff won't forget the PPE fiasco and having to basically rebuild the internal structure of wards etc to cope with the various waves of patients at the expense of others just so the politicians can claim the bragging rights. The vaccine rollout has been handled so well due to the NHS taking care of it with minimum govt interreference via it's pet companies, basically what should have happened in the first place, but the cabinet get to claim it as their success with just token thanks of the staff. What little respect the NHS had for the govt is pretty much gone.
7 days and counting for my predicted u-turn date.
If I was the government I would:
1. Claim that if there’s a problem with pay it will show up in recruitment and retention.
2. In an entirely unrelated move, reduce entry qualifications for nursing.
You missed out point 3 which is to continue the steady trickling down of responsibilities and procedures to grades previously considered not capable of doing those things. Trainee nurse doing open heart surgery soon.
Of course, the ensuing scandal provides impetus for the Tories private sector mates to cash in.