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How many days do you reckon they will hold out before the inevitable U turn?
Place your bets here.
I'll go for 5 days from today.👍
("Rise" is likely to be below inflation so not a side at all.)
Keep it pleasant, eh guys?
I think they will change but the price will be bone shaving level cuts in the rest of the public sector at the spending review. Austerity but you asked for it this time approach.
It will be just after they give themselves an 11% payrise.
....and they will ignore all the other workers who have faced challenges through this. Teachers, police, social services etc.
Sunak will introduce a unique personal tax allowance tax code instead of ~£16000 for NHS and other keyworkers, as a thanks for their efforts over the last 12 months. 😆
It will be just after they give themselves an 11% payrise.
Worse than that, all the levelling up funds are only allocated to constituencies with Tory MPs. Not so much as a single extra penny for any Labour constituency.
Quite incredible how utterly corrupt they are.
You’ve got to admire the swindle really.
RCN say 12.5%, faceless Gov dept. say 1%, public go mad and Boris / Sunak / Hancock announce “Our NHS heroes deserve more” and peel off 2% like they’re Nye Bevan reincarnated and we all cheer.
Looks like the 1% is worthy of a clap.
A slow clap.
'The current starting salary for a Band 5 Nurse is £24,907'
That seems quite good to me?
Matt, I think it is what they will thrive on, causing discontent between public sector workers. Those who have had a pay rise and those who haven't. After years of pay freezes and below inflation rises, so many more deserve better.
...I think it is what they will thrive on, causing discontent between public sector workers.
That nice Nadine Dorries was playing the public vs private card heavily this morning.
This is true. Divide and conquer.
‘The current starting salary for a Band 5 Nurse is £24,907’
That seems quite good to me?
40hrs a week on minimum wage is £18.5K, so only 25% more.
Suspect nursing is longer hours and significantly more stressful and draining than most minimum wage positions.
I'm looking forward to my £3.40 a week. A few of us have talked and we all agree we'd rather they spent it on equipment or more staff. It's not going to make a difference to my household budget.
All I really want is a pay rise that keeps inline with inflation. A slice of the Boris bus money.
Trotting out the line of "nurses have had a 12% pay rise" is annoying. That's for new starters. Those of us drones who are on the top of the band 5 pay scale see year on year pay cuts. From when I qualified to now there is a £5k loss for my pay point due to the cost of living/inflation vs wages. That's a fair amount of money.
I'm not trying to play a sob story but I looked at the average UK salary. In 2020 it was 38k. Thats 8k more than I get in my contract. I'd like to see closer to average pay for the amount of responsibility I get given and this year: Risk. I know staff who have died of covid and more who have been hospitalised. I know countless who have been off sick with it. But hey. And no. We didn't sign up for that. Who did?
But yeah. I got a roof over my head. Car. Bikes. Got to be grateful.
Nurses have to be careful with the whining because the public will turn on them quickly. The status quo is that we are lazy, over educated and uncaring. We will be back to that if we push the agenda too much. We won't strike and the unions are weak so we may as well just shut up and carry on like we always do.
Should have tried harder in school.
Also the usual "labour spent too much" is tiresome. That's old news. Been and gone. Take some responsibility.
I’m not trying to play a sob story but I looked at the average UK salary. In 2020 it was 38k.
It wasn’t. ONS says £30,800.
I think it is a disgraceful decision, not necessarily because I think nurses are hugely underpaid (though I know there’s a debate there) but because they’ve said ‘we can’t afford it’. But we can afford to pay over a hundred billion for a rail line we no longer need, and we can afford to bail out the fishing industry and farmers from their self inflicted pain, but we can’t afford to say thank you to nurses properly after the year we have had?
But it neither surprises nor shocks me. Oh and the tories have widened their poll lead - if I worked in the NHS id be telling the country to shove their clapping up their collective arses 😀
It is the average, £30800 was the median and in this case the more useful figure.
To be honest I'm a little tired of people banging on about key workers. Many people have worked very hard under difficult circumstances with little to no recognition or pay rises. All their contributions have also kept society going and its been hard. My company supplies services to supermarkets and the NHS, services those clients need (or we wouldnt be contracted to supply them) but in no way would we be considered key workers. We've continued to work throughout the pandemic.
Suspect nursing is longer hours and significantly more stressful and draining than most minimum wage positions.
And for that they'll wipe up your shite and puke, neither of which is a very nice task, but job description for nursing staff. I'm a bit queasy when it comes to that sort of thing with other peoples, so no way on gods green earth could i do that unless i was on a politicians wage.(£81,932+)
'Police officers receive a basic starting salary between £21,402- £24,780 depending on their force.'
OK, the police don't make a distinction for graduates but £25k still seems an average public sector starting wage.
I don't think paying someone more helps reduce risk. I would rather see better risk management, to reduce risk.
Everybody loves a payrise but we seem to go round in circles every few years, sticking plasters on the problem.
I would rather see money being spent on inclusive sport, proper subsidised school meals and outdoor activity promotions. More tax on alcohol and fuel and investment in active travel. these kind of things keep people in better shape for longer and out of hospitals!
It seems the complaint is more about conditions than pay, so surely improve the conditions?
The current starting salary for a Band 5 Nurse is £24,907’
That seems quite good to me?
It’s not a bad wage, well below the UK average I suppose, but more than you’d get working on a till in Tesco. Truthfully most Ward based nurses will earn a bit more than that, there are higher rates for weekend and nights and they’re not optional when you work on a ward.
It’s not about getting paid more than working in Tesco though, it’s an incredibly tough job that requires a lot of skills, constant training and of course a degree in Nursing, and that’s in normal times.
Nurses have to be careful with the whining because the public will turn on them quickly. The status quo is that we are lazy, over educated and uncaring. We will be back to that if we push the agenda too much. We won’t strike and the unions are weak so we may as well just shut up and carry on like we always do.
It’s the same lazy accusations they throw at the old bill too. Mightily glad to see a blue light when it’s coming to their aid - but F me, don’t go asking for a fair wage..
and here you are doing what the Tories want....divide and conquer
It wasn’t. ONS says £30,800.
That says disposable income after taxes, including council tax. So £30800 in your account.
I'll go for a week Monday so that's the 15th. They can easily leave gnire the headlines for this weekend and a few days into next week but if it refuses to die down by next weekend they'll decide to do something. That something will probably be a 2% ride or so but sadly it'll be enough to knock it out of the headlines and for them to say they did increase the offer even though they "can't afford it".
Tory playbook classic.
constant training and of course a degree in Nursing
You don't need a degree. I agree with everything else you said though.
sc-xc
Full Member
constant training and of course a degree in NursingYou don’t need a degree. I agree with everything else you said though
There it is.
What do you need then?
Dunno. My wife is a ward manager of 48 beds, band 7 nurse. She didn't do the degree it was a diploma.
bruneep
Full Memberand here you are doing what the Tories want….divide and conquer
Exactly. Do nurses (and other key workers, let's not let it become all about nurses) deserve better? Yes. Do other people deserve better? Quite often also yes. Should that stop us from giving key workers what they deserve? Of course bloody not.
The NHS has worked miracles this last year and so many times they've literally saved people from government incompetence, and literally lost lives due to government incompetence.
It seems the complaint is more about conditions than pay, so surely improve the conditions?
Conditions are as much about short staffing as anything else. Downward pressure on wages exacerbates the short staffing.
Police officers receive a basic starting salary between £21,402- £24,780 depending on their force
Isn't that when you join as a "Police Constable Degree Apprenticeship" though?
Whereas a band 5 nurse will have paid for their own degree before they get a posting job. And that will have included several months each year of them paying a university so they can go to work in a hospital on placement.
But, as someone else has said, it's divide and rule. As can be seen by the references to the private sector. The government can't make an IT consultancy/supermarket/etc pay its staff more (outside of minimum wage) but it can choose to post public sector workers more, so it's irrelevant that the private sector is not getting pay rises. In fact, making the public sector more attractive might make the private sector pay its workers a bit more, so it's good for everybody.
Definitely a Dead Cat, they know they're going to have to go back on this and that it's bound to be massively unpopular...
The real question is, what else has been in the news and overshadowed by NHS pay?
olly2097
Full Member
For the avoidance of doubt I am 100% on your side. I work in children's social services which can be a tough gig, nothing compared to what my wife comes home and talks about though. We spoke about this earlier, she is worried about the impact on the CSWs and staff nurses, her ward has been covid isolation for most of the last 10 months Nd the pressure has already broken a few of her colleagues.
Never mind though, the Tories clapped.
The current starting salary for a Band 5 Nurse is £24,907’
That seems quite good to me?
Held many people's hands while they die without their loved ones recently have you? Sweet zombie Jesus!
It seems the complaint is more about conditions than pay, so surely improve the conditions?
I've maintained this is the issue in many public servant roles for years.
Everything from short staffing, through to excessive bureaucracy, excessive hours, political meddling and box ticking. Sort these and salaries become less of an issue - alongside increased motivation and efficiency.
I reckon Tuesday or Wednesday.
Compared against £37bn for Track and Trace.
CSWs and staff nurses, her ward has been covid isolation for most of the last 10 months Nd the pressure has already broken a few of her colleagues.
This
A few of my colleagues (Jr Dr's) who've agent the last year on & off covid ITU are not in a good place at the moment
Worse than that, all the levelling up funds are only allocated to constituencies with Tory MPs. Not so much as a single extra penny for any Labour constituency.
Middlesbrough has a labour MP and independent mayor and received a fair whack last week. Surrounded by new "red wall" tory seats and a tory regional mayor so potentially that's the political element...
But yes, it is shaping up for some sort of U turn. However there are more opportunities for them to obfuscate on an issue like this by salami slicing things up and giving a bit there, taking some here and generally setting folk against each other. With things like free schools meals it was more of a binary issue - you either do or don't. I'd be right behind the nurses if they choose to strike.
Test and trace cost 37 billion...uk population 66million , thats £500ish each.
How can so much get wasted without consequence and yet so little for the nurses.
What could be an issue for them is that the nurses pay rise has come during a week where Boris wants to set up a charity to spunk loads of money up the wall on renovating downing Street and wasted millions on a press room and Priti shelling out hundreds of thousands for bullying. It doesn't look good.
I hope they do I’d be happy with them matching inflation. My wage hasn’t changed much in the last 10 years, the 12% 3 years ago was misconception I couldn’t believe unions fell for it. To be fair it hasn’t been offered as 1% it is in the suggested stage, so yes I fully expect a ‘U-turn’.
My wage is pretty good, yes not as good as private sector but I get better conditions than the private sector often offers. I’d just like a pay rise that is effectively a loss each year.
It wasn’t. ONS says £30,800.
That says disposable income after taxes, including council tax. So £30800 in your account.
Where? Pretty sure that was a gross figure as it comes from the Annual survey of pay and earnings with breakdowns defined in the second attachment.
Both Mrs FD and myself are NHS workers. I would prefer a one of bonus in recognition of how hard this last year has been, and zero % pay rise like everyone else.
It’s a difficult one. I have seen colleagues die over the last year or others suffering from PTSD.
Staff are on their knees. Over worked and exhausted in all areas, clinical, management, corporate functions. Most people I know have approx 15-20 days annual leave not taken because they have been that busy.
So what the NHS needs is more staff and resources. But people don’t want to work in the NHS at all levels because the pay and conditions are not good enough for what is being asked of employees
Putting aside the moral arguments - and they are strong for lots of workers not just for those in the NHS - the economic argument is that holding down pay for normal workers slows economic recovery.
People on normal salaries spend are likely to spend what they earn so it goes straight into the wider economy. So giving public sector workers a pay rise benefits private businesses and the economy more generally.
Public sector spending cuts over last decade, a big chunk of which was cash terms pay freezes (real terms cuts) in public sector salaries and job cuts in public sector is pretty much universally recognised as having slowed economic recover/growth in the UK
I have a feeling the cuts of 2010 to 2020 decade will be nothing to what's coming ... The Tories will probably give NHS staff a bigger pay rise but what will follow will be deep and long cuts on top of 10 years of austerity