[Closed] Conservative Friends of Israel

I don't think the Balfour Declaration or Sykes/Picot were ever really as important as the changing facts on the ground were. The internecine problems of the 1920s were bad but not on a massive scale, and there were comprehensible economic and political drivers.

Wonder if jambalaya and the Mossad crew are aware that both Shimon Peres and Uri Gellar are closely associated with Greville Janner, a member of the house of lords who has over 20 allegations of sexual abuse at a childrens home.

Strangely, it also appears Jimmy Savile received a medal from Israel, for services rendered...

Wonder if there is any truth that he operated Paedophile rings for the purpose of blackmailing the perverse public school elite for manipulation by the intelligence services.

Could that explain the strange grasp Israel appears to have on the UK?

Yes! Paedo Mossad spy rings! It all makes sense now.

Could that explain the strange grasp Israel appears to have on the UK?

"Wonder if there is any truth that he operated Paedophile rings for the purpose of blackmailing the perverse public school elite for manipulation by the intelligence services." No there is not Jimmy Saville was a paedophie he was also a strong minded arrogant self publisist and probably scored very highly on any psychopath test. It is unsurprising that he had strong views about the Israel \ Arab wars, one of the big ongoing world stories of his time .It is unsurprisingly that he publicised and promoted strong views and thereby himself it is unsurprisingly that the side he picked thanked him . It was at least a 50% chance he would pick Israel but in truth given the narrative of the time almost certain he would side with the plucky successful underdog.
So nowt to do with a conspiracy or his sex crimes.

Was "clunk click every trip" a secret pedo code too?

Yes! Paedo Mossad spy rings! It all makes sense now.

now we know why young Palestinian boys keep getting kidnapped by the IDF...

Hmm, purveyors of interesting foreign policy

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I think you're going to have to do better than find people with whom Savile was photographed and present that as evidence of something or other. the man was a frantic self-publicist for forty years, it wouldn't surprise me if there were literally hundreds of thousands of people who were photographed with him.

Well they all look like lizards to me.

I love JHJ's saville obsession. I've got a picture of me with Jimmy Saville somewhere, but IANAL(izard)

<tries to look nonchalant. Catches fly with tongue>

It's alright, we all know "lizard" is code.

I think you're going to have to do better than find people with whom Savile was photographed and present that as evidence of something or other.

Rather than presenting evidence that you won't bother to read, I can give you some key points to google:

Jimmy Savile Bryn Estyn

William Hague Bryn Estyn

William Hague Leon Brittan

Leon Brittan Elm Guest House

Jimmy Savile Elm Guest House

Elm Guest House Amsterdam

Jimmy Savile Jersey

Islington Haut de la Garenne

Haut de la Garenne Zandvoort

I could go on, but that should be enough for now

jivehoneyjive I only have a few mins lunch hour left to save time which is the link that exposes the mossad run peado ring that blackmailed the British government ?

saville's topless under that jacket....yuk!! 😯

Could that explain the strange grasp Israel appears to have on the UK?

does Israel have a grasp on the UK? in what way?

does Israel have a grasp on the UK? in what way?

Using your own skill and cunning, could you identify any trend prevailing through Anglo-Israeli relations, regardless of which party is in power?

Anglo-Israeli relations have always been close. Presumably because it is considered, rightly or wrongly, to be in the mutual interests of both countries for it to be so.

Now you answer the question....what is this "strange grasp" you claim Israel appears to have on the UK?

I'm guessing from the pics you have posted that it has something to do with Jimmy Savile and Yuri Geller.

Does Mossad control UK government policy with the help of spoon-bending nonces ?

Can't be sure of the extent of spoon bending powers, but googling

[b]Jimmy Savile Israel [/b]

makes for interesting reading

Could that explain the strange grasp Israel appears to have on the UK?

Well you have to admit, it is a bit weird that Israel can just flaunt violations of international law, UN Resolutions and attack aid ships in international waters without any real diplomatic fallout.

That said, it's not just the UK...

Funny how so much power is focused in Belgium eh?

UN, EU, European Parliament...

Imagine if there was a powerful paedophile ring there too...

Well you have to admit, it is a bit weird that Israel can just flaunt violations of international law, UN Resolutions and attack aid ships in international waters without any real diplomatic fallout.

All because of Jimmy Savile ?

Is Uri Geller also a nonce btw - is that why you've posted a pic of him ?

Well you have to admit, it is a bit weird that Israel can just flaunt violations of international law, UN Resolutions and attack aid ships in international waters without any real diplomatic fallout.

Using your own skill and cunning, could you identify any trend prevailing through Anglo-Israeli relations, regardless of which party is in power?

it's weird that many "pros" and "antis" on this thread seem to be convinced that there is a close relationship between the UK and Israel, and describe Israel as the UK's close ally in the region, but can't actually identify why.

KB, a constant theme in your posts is critism of the UK. Is it a particular government, the people, the culture that bothers you and do you live here?

That would be in your opinion wilburt, I see no 'constant theme' in which KB criticises the UK.

His above post makes no criticism of the UK, its government, the people, nor its culture, and appears to be merely factual.

It certainly can't be described anymore critical than the your original post and your reason for starting this thread :

wilburt - Member

I was wondering why our leaders weren't making more noise about the Israeli Army killing children and found this article amongst others which explain how 80% of Conservative and probably a good number of the other MP's are bank rolled by people lobbying for Israeli interests.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne-james-jones/pro-israel-lobby-in-britain-full-text

****
Posted 1 week ago # Report-Post

I don't have anyone else's opinion, so yes it's mine and the question asks if it's culture etc if it had been referenced I wouldn't need to ask!

Anyway not a aggressive question, just seems to me whatever the subject KN manages to weave in criticism of the UK wondered if there was a particular reason?

You edited that after I replied: my op was pretty specific though wasn't it.

the UK government is pretty indifferent to lots of breaches of international law and ignored UN resolutions

KB, a constant theme in your posts is critism of the UK. Is it a particular government, the people, the culture that bothers you and do you live here?

ANYWAY I think the language first paragraph of my post was a little bit cynical but it just reflects the fact that it's a big world, states do bad things all the time, and just because the UK doesn't do anything much about it, it doesn't mean the UK is in the grasp of one of those countries.

as for whether my second paragraph was a criticism of the UK - that depends on whether you agree with Israel that those are bad things...

Now you know I didnt say hatred, the critism I percieve could be because you care so much!

Anyway sounds like Im mistaken, apologies.

Well you have to admit, it is a bit weird that Israel can just flaunt violations of international law, UN Resolutions and attack aid ships in international waters without any real diplomatic fallout.

All because of Jimmy Savile ?

Is Uri Geller also a nonce btw - is that why you've posted a pic of him ?

Involving Jimmy Savile, but he certainly wasn't acting alone; there is plenty of evidence that Elm Guest House had links to the North Wales paedophile rings, along with trafficking of children and videos to Amsterdam. Dolphin Square, a residence for MPs and agents of Mi5/6 may also be linked.

Combine that with Haut de la Garenne, which had links to care homes in Islington and Birmingham amongst others, along with a paedophile ring in Belgium, where videos were found which were filmed in Jersey.

If you google:

Edward Heath Jersey

or

Edward Heath Jimmy Savile

you will find some disturbing allegations which research suggests have substance.

As for Uri Geller, I certainly find it interesting the company he keeps... as already mentioned, Greville Janner (who co-wrote a book with Shimon Peres) has over 20 allegations of abuse in Childrens homes against him... Michael Jackson chose to settle out of court for allegations he was facing. Seems he was also an acquaintance of Cliff Richard...

*(Please bear in mind that unlike some of my posts in other threads, though there is plenty of evidence to support something very unsavoury in the whole system, both in the UK and internationally, this is more of a theory at this stage than a wholly supported disclosure of fact)

Dolphin Square, a residence for MPs and agents of Mi5/6 may also be linked.

Dolphin Sq is a big block of flats. anyone who ponied the cash could live there. you didn't have to be an MP or a MI5 agent - although some did, because it's close to Westminster.

Although there are several living members of the political elite implicated in the Dolphin Square scandal, I'll play it safe and focus on one who's already passed:

Nicholas Fairbairn, who was linked to Elm Guest House and [url= http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/qc-s-daughter-raped-by-senior-tory-mp-at-age-4-1-3509203 ]The Fettesgate Scandal[/url], was a resident at Dolphin Square... he also had an affair with Esther Rantzen...

[img] http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1352826.ece/alternates/s615/Esther%20Rantzen%20and%20Jimmy%20Savile,%201988 [/img]

[url= http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4587116/Abuse-campaigner-I-told-Esther-Rantzen-about-paedo-Jimmy-Savile-18-years-ago.html ]Yes, that Esther Rantzen[/url]

[url= http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5326/mps-took-boys-to-dolphin-square-for-sexual-assault-and-rape ]Abuse was carried out a Dolphin Square[/url]... well researched allegations published in the 90s by Scallywag Magazine yet again suggest links to North Wales...

@gonzy drew my attention to a question he's asked on here but I cannot find it. I did find this question from @grum

Don't you feel there's a conflict between your 'strongly anti-terrorist stance', and your staunch support for a country where terrorism played a key part in its foundation?

@deadlarcy (I think it was you) made a reference to the Israeli's attacking shipping. Indeed they do police those waters aggressively intercepting a large shipment of missiles from Iran in March and more recently a boat from Turkey piled full of weapons.

Also @grum I am as anti IRA as anti ISIS, Al-Q, Hamas or further back Bader-Meinhof. It may appear to some here I am anti-Muslim but the reality is that today most of the terrorist activity is centered around an abuse of Islam. I think the UN let down the Muslim population of Bosnia very badly and the political infighting between Russia and the US/NATO lead to inaction in Syria where a civil war between Muslims has lead to 170,000 deaths.

Israel and Palestine signed a peace deal on the lawn of the White House 20 years ago, a deal Hamas did not accept. The West Bank controlled by the Palestinian Authority is relatively peaceful. It is Hamas controlled (with Palastinian Jihad and increasingly ISIS involvement) which is not. Peace could be implemented immediately if Hamas agreed to disarm, they can never win, they can never achieve their mandated objective embedded in their constitution to destroy Israel. Any real threat to the state of Israel would see direct intervention by the US on the ground aside from the full force of the IDF in a way we have not seen in recent times. So Hamas and the other factions persist in firing rockets and Israel will continue to strike back. Hamas has put itself in an impossible position, it will not secure any concessions and from everything I have read in the Arab press the few allies it had in the region have deserted it, or Hamas has chosen to declare war on them too (Syria). Only Qatar remains and whilst they are a rich country they have a population of 300,000 and no meaningful military resources and they are a country trying to integrate themselves with the West so aside from allowing the Hamas leader to reside there and trying to facilitate negotiations they will offer very little.

The flaring up of the Iraq conflict is going to be bad news for Hamas as the scale of the atrocities there and the direct intervention of the West will show them that their attacks on Israel cannot be successful and their propoganda war will not secure the airtime they desire in the West and they have already lost the propoganda war in the Arab world.

I am not surprised to see large anti-war/anti-government demonstrations in Birmingham given the local population and the fall out from the faith schools/academy investigations.

By the way I do recommend reading John Foley's last piece I linked to on that thread and the Al Monitor news website has some interesting viewpoints (including one writer who believes Hamas have secured a military victory, others showing links to ISIS and how Arab support has faded for Hamas)

@ jambalaya
you're not looking hard enough or you've got selective eyesight

i'm positive you wont be able to answer my question to you, and therefore you'e now claiming to not being able to see it...so i've copied it below for you.
if you want to see it in its entirety then look at the top of page 12 where you made the initial comment at me, which i responded to with my question.

If you recall it was you who said the Jews could have avoided the Holocaust if they had "just moved somewhere else", you laid your cards on the table pretty clearly with that.
when did i say that?
i dont recall ever stating anything along those lines nor have i insinuated that...so i'd very much like for you to show me the evidence to back up your accusation.

@gonzy, I read your post on your friend in Afghanistan. People who do such voluntary work in such conflict zones fully deserve our respect and support.

he was my nephew...try reading it again

@ jambalaya
you're not looking hard enough or you've got selective eyesight

I will have a google of the past threads, it might not have been you based upon your response.

EDIT: Just been looking but there are so many threads and so many posts it's hard to find. I did find something which @grum posted so it may have been him I confused you with, if that is the case then you have my apologies.

There is no conflict as the establishment of Israel was not an act of terrorism.

Well if thats the case, then 9/11 wasn't either. What complete and utter twoddle! You Zionists really do inhabit some form of alternative universe 😆

@binners, Israel was established by a group of nations (or world powers you may say) after the war, you might call it a "carve up" but it wasn't terrorism.

So you've chosen to ignore the preceding years, have you? How convenient for you. But, hey... why not? You seem to ignore any inconvenient facts you don't like on most subjects. But on looking, the history books haven't airbrushed Zionist Terrorism out quite as thoroughly as you have in your own head.

Whether you like it or not, the state of Israel was founded after a very bloody, but effective, sustained terrorist campaign by Zionist militia. And even after the formation, these militias carried on their activities to butcher Palestinians, and drive them off their land.

They were terrorists in exactly the same way that IS, Al Quada, or the IRA were, and are, terrorists. Just because you don't want to acknowledge the fact that your precious Zionist philosophy was founded on terrorism, doesn't make it any less true.

Just been looking but there are so many threads and so many posts it's hard to find. I did find something which @grum posted so it may have been him I confused you with, if that is the case then you have my apologies.

i know i havent said anything of the like but i looked back on all my comments just to be sure....feel free to do the same...you'll only come to the same conclusion as me

however, i'll accept your apology but might i suggest that next time you're able to back yourself up with actual proof before making such allegations

I find it a bit weird that David Camoron is both a Christian and a Zionist...

Also find it a bit weird that Ed Miliband is a Zionist

and touted potential leader of the Conservatives and Mayor of London Boris Johnson is a Zionist

Almost as if it's a prerequisite for high level positions within the major parties; wonder if it's the same the other side of the pond?

[i]I don't think there has ever been a time in the history of warfare where more effort has been made to reduce civilian casualties than has the IDF has been doing in Gaza

Hamas has been trained .. to use the civilian population as a human shield .. as part of their defensive strategy[/i]

@gonzy we've both posted so much I'd say its not worth looking further. I will take your word for it and thank you for accepting my apology.

you might call it a "carve up" but it wasn't terrorism.

so Haganah, Irgun and Lehi were just a bunch of "kum-ba-ya-my-lord" peace loving hippies were they??
here's silly old me thinking they were a bad bunch because:
- Haganah organized illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine during the Aliyah Bet,
- in 1941 Haganah created the Palmach, an elite commando unit, in preparation of the invasion into Palestine
- along with Irgun and the Lehi formed the Jewish Resistance Movement, in 1945, which served to drive the British out of Palestine and create a Jewish state
- Haganah carried out anti-British operations in Palestine, such as the bombing of the country's railroad network, and sabotage raids on radar installations and bases of the British Palestine police...whilst also continuing to organize illegal immigration.
- Irgun believed that any means necessary to establish the Jewish State of Israel, including terrorism, was justifiable
- in accordance to Jabotinsky's "Evacuation Plan", which called for millions of European Jews to be brought to Palestine at once, the Irgun helped the illegal immigration of European Jews to the land of Israel.
- to preclude the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, under the temporary command of Hanoch Kalai, the Irgun began sabotaging strategic infrastructure such as electricity facilities, radio and telephone lines.
- in 1944 Irgun carried out the bombings of government immigration and tax offices and of British police headquarters
- the Irgun carried out the King David Hotel bombing that killed 91 people
- in 1946 Irgun members kidnapped British officers and beat them in public
- following the 1947 Acre Prison Break, the Irgun kidnapped British sergeants Clifford Martin and Mervyn Paice. Following the executions of 3 Irgun members involved in the prison break, the hostages were hanged in retaliation by the Irgun and their bodies, booby-trapped with an explosive, were later strung up from trees in woodlands south of Netanya.
- Lehi had 3 main objectives; To bring together all those interested in liberation (that is, those willing to join in active fighting against the British); To appear before the world as the only active Jewish military organization; To take over Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel) by armed force.
- Lehi conducted small-scale operations such as assassinations of British soldiers and police officers
- in 1946 Lehi adopted a strategy of sending bombs in the mail to many British politicians. Other actions included sabotaging infrastructure targets: bridges, railroads, and oil refineries
- Lehi financed their operations from private donations, extortion, and bank robbery.
- in 1944, Lehi assassinated Lord Moyne, the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, in Cairo.
- in 1947, Lehi members drove a truckload of explosives into a British police station in Haifa killing four and injuring 140, in what has been called 'the world's first true truck bomb'.
- During the lead-up to the 1948 Arab–Israeli war, Lehi mined the Cairo–Haifa train several times. On 29 February 1948, Lehi mined the train north of Rehovot, killing 28 soldiers and wounding 35. On 31 March, Lehi mined the train near Binyamina, killing 40 civilians and wounding 60.
- Lehi, alongside Irgun and Haganah carried out the Deri Yassin Massacre in 1948, killing 254 villagers with allegations of rape and mutilation being also carried out.
- in 1948, Lehi assassinated UN mediator Count Folke Bernadotte

all this took place before the 1948 Palestine War where more terrorist acts were carried out against the Arab population.

but as you say the, the foundation of Israel was not based on acts of terrorism was it??

You must hate all of the above Jambalaya - since you hate terrorism so much, in your own words: it's all connected.

"I don't think there has ever been a time in the history of warfare where more effort has been made to reduce civilian casualties than has the IDF has been doing in Gaza"
Try the British in Afghanistan contrary to the utter rubbish you and ninfan came out with at approx 3% of civilian casualties caused by coalition forces that works out at 90 civilian deaths in the worst year. The IDF culled 1500 in two months.

Hamas has been trained .. to use the civilian population as a human shield .. as part of their defensive strategy

It is an accepted fact that the IDF uses Palestinian cilivans as human shields. Indeed the IDF openly admits training their operatives in what they call the human shield "procedure" :

[i]According to defense officials, the Israel Defense Forces made use of the ‘human shield’ procedure on 1,200 occasions over the last five years, and only on one occasion did a Palestinian civilian get hurt.

An 18-year-old Palestinian was killed in 2002 during one such operation.[/i]

[url= http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3154142,00.html ] IDF to appeal 'human shield' ruling[/url]

So according to the IDF the "procedure" rarely causes harm to the civilians who are used as human shields.

Which exposes as a complete lie the IDF claim that Hamas have a total disregard for Palestinian civilian casualties. The IDF uses human shields precisely because it knows that it will reduce the possibility of attacks by Hamas.

jambalaya - Member
@binners, Israel was established by a group of nations (or world powers you may say) after the war, you might call it a "carve up" but it wasn't terrorism.

the single most important lesson of Israeli and Palestinian history is that nothing good comes of waiting for the "international community" - you have to do everything yourself.

- Haganah organized illegal Jewish immigration into Palestine during the Aliyah Bet,

- Haganah carried out anti-British operations in Palestine, such as the bombing of the country's railroad network, and sabotage raids on radar installations and bases of the British Palestine police...whilst also continuing to organize illegal immigration.

Beginning of the end for Hamas ?

The UN is drafting a resolution by UK, France and Germany and the US for the Palastinian Authourity to take over control of Gaza and for an international force to police the border crossings. A international force responsible for ensuring the tunnel network is not re-built and that thre is no weapon smuggling. Abbas of the PA has been in Qatar to try and pursued Hamas to accept the proposals. Clearly much work to be done but perhaps Hamas have undone themselves with this conflict. Without them there is a glimmer of a chance for peace or at least a period of quiet.

Further evidence of infighting and power struggle in Gaza has grown with 18 people reportedly executed by Hamas for collaboration with Israel. It is very likely the IDF had informants give them the location of the senior military commaders killed in the last days as previously none had been ackonwledged as killed, so something changed. It would seem likely political opponents of Hamas would have been responsible

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/hamas-executes-suspected-infomers-gaza ]Guardian: Hamas excutes informers, UN resolution[/url]

That may be a good transitional solution, but what is going to happen regarding water supply, food rationing and access by air and sea?

Still a long way to go before the conditions in Gaza (and to some extent the Palestinian state) are improved from their current status as an Israeli policed prison camp

Without them there is a glimmer of a chance for peace or at least a period of quiet.

and what peace would that be?
i mean what would it entail?
what would that peace mean for the Palestinians?
would they have all the restrictions lifted?
would all the arrested/detained Palestinians be released?
would the suffering and humiliation of the Palestinians be put to an end?
would that which has been taken away from the Palestinian people be given back to them?
would that include Gaza being rebuilt?
as wrong as Hamas were...and quite rightly they should be held accountable for their actions/inactions during this conflict, will the Israeli government allow itself to be held to the same accountability for its actions?
will this peace change the public opinion of Palestinians by the Israeli public?

or will that be irrelevant so long as Israel is not getting rockets fired at it anymore??

Food and water and other supplies would be allowed in and policied by the international forces and by the PA.

@gonzy it would be a start. I think life is better in the West Bank than Gaza. With Hamas in place the border to Egypt and Israel is going to remain largely shut.

@crankboy - see my earlier posting on casualties, the vast majority are adult male seems likely to me they are militants or assisting militants.

From the Guardian (seems Hamas acknowledge the airstikes are well targetted, hence the execution of 18. The imam doesn't sound too impartial either, not too hard to imagine rockets stored under his mosque ?

[i]The killings triggered swift condemnation from Palestinian and international human rights organisations. Raji al-Surani, the director of the Gaza-based Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, said: "We demand the [Palestinian Authority] and the resistance [militant groups] to intervene to stop these extra-judicial executions, no matter what the reasons and the motives are."

Pictures showed a group of men, with their heads covered and hands tied behind their backs, kneeling against a wall. Masked Hamas fighters dressed in black and armed with AK47s pushed to them to the ground before shooting them.

The mosque's imam asked worshippers to inform Hamas security officials about anyone suspected of behaving strangely, or asking about fighters. "We have to protect our mujahideen [fighters] and back them, not let the Zionist occupation [Israel] easily target them as happened in Rafah with commanders," he said.

A notice attached to a wall detailed the charges against one suspect. It said he or she had provided "information to the enemy on the places of mujahideen [fighters], standing positions, tunnels, the places of explosive devices, and their houses and rockets", allowing Israel to target its airs trikes. "And upon that the justice revolutionary verdict was implemented."[/i]

jambalaya - Member

Food and water and other supplies would be allowed in and policied by the international forces and by the PA.

As long as they can overrule Israel's restrictions, that could work. ie, remove restrictions on dual use, and take the Strip off the diet. Reopen the fisheries and FFS, stop pretending that restricting[i] exports [/i]is anything to do with preventing terrorism. Legitimise the blockade, essentially, and make it do what Israel's always claimed it's for, rather than being punitive.

Further evidence of infighting and power struggle in Gaza has grown with 18 people reportedly executed by Hamas for collaboration with Israel.

Hardly "evidence of infighting", Israel has always had its informers, that doesn't represent infighting - just what money and/or blackmail can achieve.

And I don't know what you mean by "further", this whole Israeli bloodbath in which hundreds of innocent civilians were slaughtered was instigated by the Zionists precisely because they were horrified to see a US backed rapprochement between Fatah and Hamas, the Israelis hate the thought of Palestinian unity.

Presumably you do too with your false allegations of infighting.

Whatever the pretext used by Israel the aim of the attack on Gaza was to isolate Hamas and sow disunity.

However in the past when Israel has attacked Gaza and bombed the crap out of it slaughtering countless of innocent civilians, it has resulted in increased support for Hamas. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this latest attack will provide a different result.

Not altogether surprising as it can only increase hatred of Israel, which is exactly what it has done throughout the world.

Jambalaya - once again you've failed to respond to the fact that Israel was founded on terrorism, truck bombs, letter bombs, assassinations - are these not terrorist actions? Are you anti terrorist or not? It must be hard squaring this cicle in your mind. What are your thought on you terrorist founders? Were their actions justified, do the ends justify the means, what are your thoughts?

[img] [/img]

^ You with the cute eyes, stop this humour, it's the weekend, time for serious and prolonged debate 😀

I'm glad the IDF are protecting the poor innocent civilians of Israel

(most of whom have served or will serve for the IDF)

by sniping innocent Gazan's who might have seen a 'terrorist' once:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/despite-what-their-critics-say-israel-is-using-precision-targeting-to-kill-its-enemies-9686198.html

If the Israeli air strikes are well targeted and kill 250 children in two months it is a bit hard to argue that the IDF do not deliberately kill civilians. The IDF used human shields over 1200 times but only one died which suggests that Hama's have greater respect for innocent lives.

You couldn't make it up, could you ? Night after night the Israelis talk about Hamas using human shields (to explain away the massive death toll) when Israel itself has been doing the very same thing, and has been found guilty of illegally doing so by it's own courts, and the government wants to overturn the decision!! I shouldn't be gobsmacked, but I am.

Jambalaya did you watch Richard Kemp in your link while supporting the IDF's actions he did say "I don't have any of the detail I don't know all of the facts " . so in favour of the IDF re targeting of civilans we have Kemp against the IDF we have the facts the figures and the accounts of serving IDF soldiers .

that dog will generate enough lift to take off any second

Wonder what Camoron has to say about this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/31/israel-west-bank-land-settlement-_n_5744642.html?1409510750

Using three cases of murder as justification for massive expansion of settlements is beyond cynical.

No. There is no conflict as the establishment of Israel was not an act of terrorism. Since it's inception Israel has faced numerous military attempts to destroy it, these have been repelled and peace agreements signed and honoured. One day Palestinian will join that list.

Think you need to read up on some history jambalaya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

'Lehi and the Irgun were jointly responsible for the massacre in Deir Yassin. Lehi assassinated Lord Moyne, British Minister Resident in the Middle East, and made many other attacks on the British in Palestine.[19] On May 29, 1948, the government of Israel, having inducted its activist members into the Tzahal, formally disbanded Lehi, though some of its members carried out one more terrorist act, the assassination of Folke Bernadotte some months later,[20] an act condemned by Bernadotte's replacement as mediator, Ralph Bunche.[21] Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980, Israel instituted a military decoration in "award for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel," the Lehi ribbon.[22] Former Lehi leader Yitzhak Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel in 1983.'

So it seems terrorism is sometimes acceptable, or even to be applauded.

I've let this thread issue lie as I thought it best. There have been quite a lot of developments including a Hamas exile in Turkey claiming responsibility for the kidnapping, denied by Hamas in Gaza. More executions in Gaza.

@jive the PM was pretty balanced on Israel during his statement yesterday (I listened to it all), both he and Milliband re-iterated Israel's right to defend itself against rockets and re-iterated that Hamas was a terrorist organisation. But he was also critical of the land seizure saying it was certainly counterproductive with regard to negotiations for a long term peace.

Personally I think the seizure was intended to send a strong message to the Palestinians that the cost of the conflict to them was significant, not just to Hamas in Gaza but also more broadly. A show of strength. The Israeli's have already apprehended one individual and demolished his home and that of another West Bank resident identified as the culprits for the kidnapping. Israel (and most international participants) want to see the Palestinian Authority regain control. It was reported that the Israeli PM and Abbas met secretly in Jordon recently. I could see the return of the recently seized land as being part of a negotiation.

There is also the issue that there are those in the Israeli government who felt the action in Gaza should have continued, the land seizure is in responce to that.

I find this website very good for the region in general by the way [url= http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/home.html ]Al-Monitor[/url]

Personally I think the seizure was intended to send a strong message to the Palestinians that the cost of the conflict to them was significant, not just to Hamas in Gaza but also more broadly. A show of strength.

Or 'collective punishment' as its referred to in the Geneva convention, where its deemed illegal?

[i]already apprehended one individual and demolished his home and that of another West Bank resident identified as the culprits for the kidnapping[/i]

In the absence of a trial do they just throw these 'culprits' in a pond and see if they float?

In the absence of a trial do they just throw these 'culprits' in a pond and see if they float?

It'd have to be a pond in Israel, as Palestine doesn't have enough water.

Results of Israeli precision air strikes in todays New York Times;

[img] [/img]

But he was also critical of the land seizure saying it was certainly counterproductive with regard to negotiations for a long term peace.

With stuff like this no wonder Putin will be annexing the Ukraine next week.

@Leku - Russia has Crimera now, it will never be giving it back

@waswas - not sure where that is but the town of Beit Hanoun was the source of the majority of the attack tunnels so they have pretty much flattened the whole place. It may well not be rebuilt which Israel will regard as a victory as it will be very hard to reconstruct the tunnels without the cover of the residential buildings.

Hamas knew the conflict would end like this (in terms of death and destruction) but it didn't stop them firing hundreds of rockets from Jan to June 2014 to provoke Israel. Their target all along was to try and weaken Israels support from the West

By the way I read an interesting piece yesterday about how Egypt is forcably evicting the residents along the Gaza border and flattening their properties as the area is full of tunnels and they want to try and control the amount of arms smuggling so will be building listening stations and floodlighting the area

[url= http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/rafah-egypt-army-destruction-houses-residents-compensation.html ]Egypt - Rafa[/url]

And those extremist right wing Israelis that kidnapped and burnt to death the Palestinian teengaer, will they be having their homes demolished as well? Probably not 🙄

Jambalaya so killing a thousand innocents is OK as long as you get one terrorist in the process ?

OK, soooo, back to paedophile spy rings;

I appreciate the concept sounds bonkers, but given Elm Guest House, Kincora and strong suggestions that the home office has something to hide on Jersey, I've been doing plenty of delving. Amongst the various interesting tidbits I've found, this really stands out:

http://brynalynvictims.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/andrea-davidson-speaks-out-north-wales.html

Of course, I can't personally verify all allegations presented, but the statement above has been presented to the Macur review:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22941356

Hard to fathom the evil that would allow this, but as we've seen, people in power are prepared to go to war for their own gain; human lives are just another commodity.

@waswas - not sure where that is but the town of Beit Hanoun was the source of the majority of the attack tunnels so they have pretty much flattened the whole place. It may well not be rebuilt which Israel will regard as a victory as it will be very hard to reconstruct the tunnels without the cover of the residential buildings.

Jesus, your more of a scumbag than I previously thought.

It does make you wonder why they the isrealites (woahwoah) don't just move countries .l

To somewhere ike ireland surely a diplomatic solution give northern ireland to the isrealis, problem solved in the middle east, America can keep funding everybody all in one place ,all the money can be sent to one simple location from europe , previously I saw someone mentioned relocating israel to america but that just sucks as an idea I feel

It does make you wonder why they the isrealites (woahwoah) don't just move countries .l

Jesus, your more of a scumbag than I previously thought.

Is Jambalaya on a pilot program?

[i]

In a campaign to improve its image abroad, the Israeli government plans to provide scholarships to hundreds of students at its seven universities in exchange for their making pro-Israel Facebook posts and tweets to foreign audiences.

The students making the posts will not reveal online that they are funded by the Israeli government, according to correspondence about the plan revealed in the Haaretz newspaper[/i]

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/students-offered-grants-if-they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html ]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/students-offered-grants-if-they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html[/url]

I think its a lot more likely Jambalaya is a recruiter for Hamas.

Jesus, your more of a scumbag than I previously thought.

Hamas could have avoided all this by not provoking a conflict by spending the first 6 months of 2014 firing more and more rockets. If you instigate a conflict against a much more powerful enemy this is how its going to end.

@binners I guess the Israelis will wait and see what happens in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine for example before worrying too much about whether the seizure breaches the Geneva Convention or not. As I said I expect the land seized will be an item for discussion in any peace settlement. Its a strong signal, you fight with us, you will inevitably lose and you will end up with less.

Interesting comparison with the Crimea Jambalaya. Ironically, Putin has a much more legitimate claim to Crimea. Steve Bell picked up on it in yesterdays Guardian....

[img] [/img]