[Closed] Conservative coalition with DUP.....

You should all just be thankful the TUV don't hold the balance of power 😆

Talking flip sides. Most of the DUP manifesto would appeal to a Labour voter.

"Most?"

They're in favour of the triple lock for pensions, I've not seen much else. Though to be fair I've not scrutinised it in detail. What else is there?

Why can't we have collaborative politics, rather than always confrontation?

Because Western politics has always been about how much mud you can sling at the other guy. It's not "you want us, we're great" but rather "you don't want them, they're terrible." Appeal to the heart, it was ever thus.

TJ you have no idea where PR would lead. It could just as easily end up with a Tory / UKIP style coalition.

Maybe it could. But at least it's be a fairer way at arriving at a shitstorm rather than loading the dice.

it's happening because it has the potential to jeapordise the GFA

I'd have thought - hoped, maybe, if that's even the right word - that it's happening [i]despite[/i] the potential to jeopardise the GFA.

Though "this could cause (literally) murders but bollocks to them, we're more important" is pretty odious.

It is a well known axiom that those who most desire power are the least suitable for it...

Douglas Adams: [i]"It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."[/i]

councilof10 - Member
I love how people who don't like a democratic decision come out with carp like this!

I agree with the democratic decision, my wife grew up out there.

[IMG] [/IMG]

It is the other away round, the longer she stays the better she gets because people will see the stability in place after all she has just been a PM for short time.

I'm half inclined to agree with your sentiment but not your conclusion.

For all the praise or criticism anyone might want to level at May and her government, you'd have to be either deluded or barking to think "stable" was a fair assessment.

A snap GE at a time where, y'know, we're on a timer regarding A50; a hung parliament; cosying up with a group who are... well let's be nice and say "questionable." That's the very antithesis of stable. It's desperate, is what that is.

Mac > expect burglary from Uncle Monty any time soon.

She might have to delay the Queens speech because she's busy ripping up the manifesto that not enough people voted for to give her a majority

She's an absolute clown shoe of a woman. 😆

A pyoor
[img] [/img]

😆

It's a fair question, ninfan. I honestly don't think so though, down to Britain being the occupying nation.

ninfan

are you suggesting that means that SF cannot ever play a role in the Irish government because to do so would also endanger the GFA?

I would say that's correct. Since a Sinn Fein Irish Government could never legitimately claim to be impartial.

Joseph - But the whole basis of the GFA is that there's no such thing as an occupying power, it's entirely a matter of free will on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland.

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"Where there is harmony, May will bring discord.
Where there is truth, May will bring error.
Where there is faith, May will bring doubt.
And where there is hope, May will bring despair."
With apologies to maggie and St Francis of Assisi

I not going to deny i'm biased and have sympathies to a UI. I agree it's a matter for free will.

#DUPMovies on Twitter is quite good !

Kussenberg actually said that May played a blinder at the 1922 meeting 😆
It's great she's got them suckling up to Mummy again !!

Loving that the Tories don't understand the damage they are doing to themselves

Some of you lefties should really need to up the funny photos a bit more to lighted the mood coz I am not allowed to. As long as they are funny they should be welcome. Remember Corbyn 3 blokes dancing gif? That is funny. 😀

If I post pics there will be protesting street riot ... 😆

Have some fun post some silly pics ... 😛

kimbers - Member

That bloke reminds me of Bert (Ernie & Bert) from Sesame Street. 😆

But the Northern Irish party reportedly wants Farage to be brought into Brexit negotiations.
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/the-dup-could-insist-on-nigel-farage-having-a-role-in-brexit-negotiations-6701540/#ixzz4jnLzsA95

wonderful, the DUP/tories/Farage! Got to be great for the tories long term prospects!

Some questions being asked about whether this has anything to do with the 500,000 euro donation the DUP received towards their Brexit campaign. Biggest donation ever made to an NI party, but it is not clear where the cash came from, and they spent most of it on a press ad that ran outside NI.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/calls-for-dup-to-reveal-source-of-500-000-brexit-donation-1.3115919

All hail the killfile

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deadlydarcy - Member
All hail the killfile

Now I know ... 😕

deadlydarcy - Member
All hail the killfile

This won't please Ruth !

http://www.irishnews.com/news/generalelection/2017/06/12/news/arlene-foster-asked-scottish-government-to-curb-gay-marriage-for-ni-couples--1051933/?param=ds12rif76F

As for the Brexit cash it was either Aaron Banks or someone else.... the DUP will be russian to get this shut down, they won't want this putin their deal in doubt

KCR beat me to it.

[url= https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay-peter-geoghegan/secretive-dup-brexit-donor-links-to-saudi-intelligence-service ]Open Democracy[/url]

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-dup-brexit-donations-saudi-arabia-tale-tories-theresa-may-a7782681.html ]The
Independent[/url]

All this, plus the horrible mess involving the Peace Process and the potential unrest over LGBT rights makes it obvious that the Conservatives are properly desperate right now.

Without wishing to tread on the toes of another threat, at the very least we should set up a cross party body to debate us leaving the EU - Labour would do well to demand co-operation and to involve the other parties. It's clear that the Conservative mandate cannot deliver this, especially when senior Conservative figures simply shut down the debate with soundbites.

metalheart - Member

deadlydarcy - Member
All hail the killfile

I've learned to just skip the posts, kind of a mental kill file
They're just going to complete gibberish anyways...

Oldracer thats just a national list system. There are multiple systems available but the system used at Holyrood produces a representative parliament with only one 4 year term of majority vote so far

PR forces consensus politics by and large although you can end up with extreme minority groups with too much power. Parties and leaders actualoly have to compromise. Those that don't get frozen out. An Example would be the first SNP minority government at holyrood. Labour refused to play ballat all and just went away and sulked and achevied nothing. Tories under Goldie engaged constructively with the SNP, had an influence on policy and that is one factor in their revival compared to Labours decline

PR works

[quote=oldracer ]Not sure about that TJ..
Indy100 - PR

I'm not sure that contradicts anything tj suggested - an alliance of Labour, SNP and Lib Dems would command a majority (with some alternative alliances with Labour also possible).

😆 at Diane Abbott losing her seat despite her huge majority

Carole Cadwalladr has been doing some good investigative journalism in the Guardian about the Brexit campaigns and alleged circumvention of collective funding rules. In the case of the DUP, I think the suggestion is that the unspecified donors have channeled cash through them because NI does not have the same transparency about campaign funding. It's seriously shady when so much money has come from an almost unknown organisation fronted by a Scottish Tory who doesn't appear to have any significant resources of his own.

I doubt the pro Brexit donors were expecting May to make such a cock up of the election, but ironically it could give them the opportunity to use their influence via the DUP now.

igm - Member

Beards, metalheart, that's what the conspiracy is based on. Of course.

You know who else has beards? ISIS. Think about it.

jambalaya - Member

Gordon Brown sought a pact with the DUP in 2010 according to leaked Hilary Clinton emails

Yes, Ninfan mentioned that earlier, let me quote something for you:

Northwind - Member

Oh good grief, now it's Clinton's emails

Just to remind anyone who's not paying attention, the current Labour leader is not Gordon Brown. It's this chap Corbyn, who retired former leader, ex-MP Gordon Brown keeps slagging off. So if "Gordon Brown sorta nearly did something similar but didn't" is the best response you have, then you have less than nowt.

kcr - Member

Carole Cadwalladr has been doing some good investigative journalism in the Guardian about the Brexit campaigns and alleged circumvention of collective funding rules. In the case of the DUP, I think the suggestion is that the unspecified donors have channeled cash through them because NI does not have the same transparency about campaign funding. It's seriously shady when so much money has come from an almost unknown organisation fronted by a Scottish Tory who doesn't appear to have any significant resources of his own.

So with the margins so small could it be argued that the anonymous donation to the DUP could just have swung it? A Northern Irish party backing Brexit was akin to turkeys voting for Christmas and the fact that the DUP are embroiled in multi million pound corruption at every turn would lead a cynical person to wonder if they'd been bought. Again.

As for the Brexit cash it was either Aaron Banks or someone else....

Aside from the fact that "it was someone or it wasn't" is a truism, Aaron Banks was my first thought also. It's been the same people all along puling the strings in the right wing campaign.

and here is where it all starts - Scottish Tories demand to know what the donation was before voting on a queens speech etc. This one will end in a mess and I wonder what the fall out in Scotland against the tories will be.

This is a long article, but well worth a read, and the implications are very disturbing. The DUP were only one channel for the distribution of a lot of campaign money, in a manner that was far from transparent.
If it's true, we've been had.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

If it's true, we've been had

I'm going to bed now so I'll read it tomorrow; but, I'm pretty confidently sure at this point that either way, we've been had.

So with the margins so small could it be argued that the anonymous donation to the DUP could just have swung it? A Northern Irish party backing Brexit was akin to turkeys voting for Christmas and the fact that the DUP are embroiled in multi million pound corruption at every turn would lead a cynical person to wonder if they'd been bought. Again.

We both know which party will be first in the queue to take dodgy money if it's on offer!

PR forces consensus politics by and large although you can end up with extreme minority groups with too much power. Parties and leaders actualoly have to compromise. Those that don't get frozen out. An Example would be the first SNP minority government at holyrood. Labour refused to play ballat all and just went away and sulked and achevied nothing. Tories under Goldie engaged constructively with the SNP, had an influence on policy and that is one factor in their revival compared to Labours decline

If that's the case TJ, I'd be very much in favour of it.

The bottom line is I don't understand it well enough TBH..

sv - the Tories?

sv - the Tories?

Lol, going on recent history (NAMA, Red Sky, RHI & SIF) got to be the DUP.

Gove on BBC breakfast picking up where he left off. Pretty much he can guarantee that any deal with the DUP will absolutely, never, not in any way compromise the government's neutrality in any future talks about getting Stormont up and running again.

Do we believe him (I'm a teacher so I think my opinion might be pretty obvious)?

Do we believe him

No deal is better than a bad deal.

Just sayin'.

Which bibles will Gove be sending to Northern Ireland?

At least he is being given his rope to play with again.

So, Maybot is meeting the DUP today then, to try & thrash out a deal - has she no shame?? 👿

So, Maybot is meeting the DUP today then, to try & thrash out a deal - has she no shame??

Has anyone told to her that no deal is better than a bad deal.

I used to think no PM is better than a bad PM but I'm looking forward to Mayhem being in office but not in power!

Will she actually turn up to these negotiations?

I see John Major has been scaremongering about the possibility of a return to violence in NI. Bloody lefties eh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/dup-tory-deal-could-put-northern-ireland-peace-process-at-risk-warns-sir-john-major_uk_593fda2ee4b0b13f2c6dccc6?hww

muppetWrangler - Member

Has anyone told to her that no deal is better than a bad deal.

oldracer - Member

If that's the case TJ, I'd be very much in favour of it.

The bottom line is I don't understand it well enough TBH..

The thing is, you don't really have to- the system in Scotland is complicated enough behind the scenes that most people haven't a clue (I understand it enough to know I can't be arsed to fully understand it). But voting is simple and that's what actually matters. I don't understand how my phone works either, I wouldn't want to replace it with an easy to comprehend phone that most of the time phones the wrong person- the outcome's pretty much undeniably better than FPTP.

(FPTP otoh is simple in how it works behind the scenes but complex in how voting works)

There are some things to dislike- mostly that the list system can be used to get people in who wouldn't likely be elected as a named candidate for a seat (should a party, for some reason, want to have as one of their few representatives someone everyone hates- in practice it generally gets used to get valuable people like Ruth Davidson in. That's obviously not all bad, either- it's a bit daft when parties lose key national players to local votes, it avoids all the unpleasantness of carpetbagging etc)

But when you offset that against things like UKIP getting 12.7% of the vote in 2015 and a single MP, adding up to about 3 and a half million people whose opinions are ignored for that party alone, and the SNP getting 4.7% of the vote and 56 seats, well, it's beneath trivial. (I hate UKIP and voted SNP, but that's still obviously dysfunctional, and, well- undemocratic. Wrong)

Anna Soubry pretty much nails it, and it's nice to see her esteemed colleague in the row in front, err, taking his mind off the problems his party is facing.

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We could have both systems: FPTP for the lower house and PR for the upper house.

martinhutch
Anna Soubry pretty much nails it, and it's nice to see her esteemed colleague in the row in front, err, taking his mind off the problems his party is facing.

Is that some right honourable gentleman watching a bongo vid in parliament? 😆 😐

Is that some right honourable gentleman watching a bongo vid in parliament?

It's too small to make out clearly but there's an awful lot of flesh tone on that phone screen.

why is he watching it portrait ?

Tory boy bongo?
🙂

Anyone know which MP it is?

[img] [/img][img] http://imgur.com/3PoXJMr [/img]

Wow!. That photo enhancement thing really works!

Nice pawn.

Meanwhile,

http://irishpost.co.uk/sinn-fein-mps-fly-westminster-surprise-move-tory-dup-talks-get-way/

Good practice for TM, I feel like with a few more days of this she'll be ready for EU negotiations.

Nice pawn.

Perfect for bashing the bishop.

Bravo!