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...still looking, this is proving harder than expected
[quote=Edukator ]None of the heinous crime on either side were OK. That's why an end to the troubles was so desperately needed. Kelly was very much a part of that peace process and I repsect him for the role he played.
No-one is rewriting history, just learning from it and moving on to a peaceful future. Anything that threatens the curent delicate balance is bad news. May forming an alliance with the DUP goes against the spirit of and commitments in the Good Friday agreement.
THIS whatever side of the issue you stand we all know that what we have now is preferable to what we had then
People with a hell of a lot of baggage have had to move on towards a more peaceful present and future. Why can't you?
I'd like to see justice served first and i mean on all sides. No hiding place for murdering scum.
You want to start with former UDA members in the DUP
Oh do tell us their names?
If none of the Northern Irish are willing to forgive,then they will have to fight that war forever.The present situation is so much better than pre GFA,and both sides have moved to help this.
And yes if they have committed any acts of terrorism. All sub human in my book.
[url= http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/dup-chief-arlene-foster-met-uda-boss-days-after-loyalist-murder-in-bangor-35776873.html ]no links ?[/url]
I'd like to see justice served first and i mean on all sides. No hiding place for murdering scum.
Good point, let's hold off on the peace while we sort that out
Perhaps the easiest thing would be to lock up all the paramilitaries on both sides,in their own jails,it worked so well in the 70s,or would you like to bring back capital punishment,specifically for NI ?
I'd like to see justice served first and i mean on all sides. No hiding place for murdering scum.
You belong in the past. Well, it seems that you'd probably be keen on Brokenshire's moves to help the DUP out in their quest for justice (or as many would term it, vengeance) on one side and for legacy issues to be less focused on police, security services and army on the other.
You realise that your mortal enemies in Sinn Féin will quietly stand back and let this happen. It plays straight into their hands. It will also give them an excuse to refuse to support any new assembly. There is also a realistic chance of snap-elections in the RoI as well. SF need to look there for votes too. Harnessing themselves to the DUP and the Tories, as Brexit looms, is not going to do them any favours there.
So there you go; NI paralysed by election after election. You stay focused on the past enough and you might even get a chance to return to it if you like it that much.
You need, like many have, to move on.
Oh do tell us their names?
The British government refuses to release the documents concerning the Dublin and Monaghan attacks.
That would obviously include the security services and rich overseas donors and arms suppliers.
reading the previous 5 pages does little good for the soul.. it seems as if the NI parties are all looking to move forward whilst those on this side of the irish sea want to resurrect issues for political point scoring
reading the previous 5 pages does little good for the soul.. it seems as if the NI parties are all looking to move forward whilst those on this side of the irish sea want to resurrect issues for political point scoring
I actually think the most concerning part of the DUP deal is their dodgy politics, rather than their history.
I see nothing wrong in highlighting the [b]current[/b] attitudes of the DUP, as they have the potential to affect all of us.
it seems as if the NI parties are all looking to move forward whilst those on this side of the irish sea want to resurrect issues for political point scoring
I agree wholeheartedly.
Bringing up the past and getting involved in the blame game isn't going to do any of us any good.
I just hope that this weekend's events don't jeopardize the potential for further reconciliation and the potential for lasting peace.
If we want to see the UK government move forward why not release the papers on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.
I mean what is the likelyhood that the UK government were behind the deaths of 33 on the republics streets? So obviously nothing to fear and would answer many questions and help the relatives of those who died.
I actually think the most concerning part of the DUP deal is their dodgy politics, rather than their history.
+1
For sure, we can all have a giggle at the irony of the Tories cuddling up to a party with a dodgy past. But make no mistake, the DUP are scumbags who filled a unionism vacuum when Trimble lost the Orange Order's support, eventually dropping from No.1 party in NI to the recent dismal No.4 (or is it 5?).
Current policies are the issue.
If you look at the history of UK government you will find some pretty horrible things. We, and they, are what we are now not what they were then.
Look at Paisley and McGuiness
This petition is hysterical. The Conservatives won more seats and had more votes than any other party. Under and sort of democratic system that means they get to try and form a Government.
As pointed out elsewhere Corbyn managed only slightly more seats than did Brown in 2010 the main difference is expectations for Labour where abysmally low so in losing by a mere 52 seats it looks like a "result"
Here's a link to the DUP 2017 manifesto
http://www.mydup.com/publications/view/2017-westminster-manifesto
I'm all for abolishing the TV licence!
Not read it all properly but it didn't seem too contentious and looks pretty sensible to me but I can imagine that the bits at the end about Northern Ireland identity may seem a bit inflammatory and divisive to some.
The Conservatives won more seats and had more votes than any other party. Under and sort of democratic system that means they get to try and form a Government.
No-one's arguing that; it's the choice of bedfellows.
No the opposite is true its the high expectations of the tories[ 100-150 you said ] not being met that is what makes it feel like a result and i note you dont want to crow too much about swapping a majority for as minority and losing a 20 % ish poll lead ...you winnner you..it must feel awesome and you must have been buzzing for the last few days eh ...winning is great isnt it .expectations for Labour where abysmally low so in losing by a mere 52 seats it looks like a "result"
I realise that tories cannot defend May - not even you anymore - or try and spin the result as a success so all they have left is to point out labour lost
this is true but the funniest thing is we are so much happier than you are today. 8)
Seen the latest pols - though they always underestimate leads dont they - Labour in front 😉
Few weeks you will be over the result and able to wonder how long it will last like the rest of us.
The Conservatives won more seats and had more votes than any other party. Under and sort of democratic system that means they get to try and form a Government.
Absolutely. I'm more than happy to see them continue in the current vein. May is the gift that keeps giving. The DUP are providing the wrapping paper.
I'd have paid £3.
Like you said you'd pay. But it turned out you never did.
😆
Did some mention Gordon Brown being short of votes?
https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/labour-repeatedly-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup/
Headline worthy of the Daily Mash
This petition is hysterical
Yeah keep misunderstanding how the young voters view the Tories 😆
Latest opinion polls have 6pt lead for Corbyn, that's why they are trying so hard to ignore the ugly side of the DUP to keep their tiny majority alive
Unfortunately for the Tories, the electorate aren't ignoring it
I love that Brexit was supposed to liberate the Tories from their perpetual EU self-flagelation......
As well as throwing Brexit into uncertainty, it means the end of grammar schools, fox hunting and whatever other crackpot ideas the Tories were dreaming up
The black hole of Brexit sucks in all before it
This petition is hysterical. The Conservatives won more seats and had more votes than any other party. Under and sort of democratic system that means they get to try and form a Government.
And if the act endangers peace, Risks breaching an international agreed treaty, brings into power a party with some very questionable ideals, A party that has some serious questions to answer re fraud and bankhanders and funding?
Thats all ok then???
Did some mention Gordon Brown being short of votes?https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/labour-repeatedly-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup/
Just because they also tried doesn't make it right.
It is possible for both to be wrong.
When I said justice I meant justice for all. Loyalists, republicans and any state forces involved in murder. So we just let the terrorists get away with it all in the name of peace? Will we include ISIS?
There is no peace, people still being murdered on both sides, drugs, punishment beatings. Political parties still having private armies. Oh yes it's wonderful! And now a polarised NI Westminster vote, FFS...
Just because they also tried doesn't make it right.It is possible for both to be wrong.
Also, this isn't the same Labour Party: That version were almost as Tory-esque as the Tories themselves.
If only us selfish bastards had done what we are told like we should have, that lovely woman wouldn't be in this mess now.
Jeez, she spent a fortune putting on an election and some of you went and voted for someone else.
Talk about ungrateful.
There is no peace
No, of course not.
There is no peace, people still being murdered on both sides, drugs, punishment beatings. Political parties still having private armies. Oh yes it's wonderful! And now a polarised NI Westminster vote, FFS...
Which is why neither Sinn Féin or the DUP should be anywhere near power in the UK, For the English ( and i mean that) Government to take sides in the NI conflict helps no one, it gives some Republicans a legitimate claim that London has seized power. That it has dumped the GFA.
There may be a time in the future when the DUP can be a legitimate part of a British government, but that time is not now, NI is not a calm stable country without armed gangs.
That would be some knee capping!
It's worth remembering that the DUP were opposed to the Good Friday Agreement. A cynical person might even conclude that they want it to fail.
£100m of taxpayers money well spent I reckon as the Tories are now neutered
Borris, reportedly very unhappy at Goves return
I wonder if Maybot did it just to piss off Johnson before he swoops on her, if Johnson were to be the next PM, he'd look petty & churlish to sack Gove
Maybe I'm assigning more accumen to May than she possesses, if not she's played a blinder.
The DUP is part of the British government now, as could SF if they drop their issues (they already did it with the Republics government and the devolved NI assembly). Perhaps England need a devolved government!
Perhaps England need a devolved government!
That's a given, one of the big issues, is that the UK is massively centralised, far more so than any other western country. Devolve power to the lowest appropriate level across the whole of the UK.
The Maybot is still at it
Here she repeats "getting on with the job" 10 times in reply to 4 different questions
https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/873983788954640391/video/1
Its great, she still doesn't understand that endless repetition of vacuous soundbites, doest work!!!
Interestingly Guido Gawkes points out that the Tories won more seats than the so-called progressive alliance of Labour, SNP, Lib Dems and Greens
@mrmo that could work provided the South East keeps all its own tax revenue 😉
100 plus seats?
[quote=jambalaya ]Interestingly Guido Gawkes points out that the Tories won more seats than the so-called progressive alliance of Labour, SNP, Lib Dems and Greens
"interestingly"? I'd worked that out over 2 days ago, and it doesn't really provide any more support for your claims. Keep trying though, I'm sure Guido has something to make you feel better.
kimbers - MemberIt's great, she still doesn't understand that endless repetition of vacuous soundbites, doesn't work!!!
She looks terrible. This is going to kill her if she's not careful.
And no, it doesn't work, it just makes people even more annoyed.
we all had except the maths graduate.I'd worked that out over 2 days ago
the Tories won more seats than the so-called progressive alliance as they lost their majority and the expected 100-150 seats disappeared before their eyes
FTFY
again its strange times when the losers are happier than the "winners"
that interview was terrible she is so determined to look strong she looks aloof , evasive, out of touch and just plain wierd at times as she repeats phrases and tries to link them together irrespective of the topic.
Why did she not just say about the last few days
yes it has been a tough time personally and politically and not what i expected and I felt and have listened to the public and we are going to change and then all that guff or even something new - she really is poor at interviews.
big_n_daft - MemberDid some mention Gordon Brown being short of votes?
Oh well as long as an ex-leader ex-MP completely unconnected to the current Labour leadership except to crticise it, did it in the past, that makes it fine for the Tories to do it today. I look forward to using this argument every time someone criticises Labour for anything. "But Edward Smith Stanley did it!"
Though of course not only didn't GB have a supply and confidence deal with the DUP, he didn't even suggest getting one - that Guido article is making something out of nothing.
Interestingly Guido Gawkes
Ah Guido that central level headed outlet of facts.......
Not worried at all about the DUP but he did find 10 good policies so thats a plus..... 🙄
Good. I hope when she is at death's door some private sector company deems her fit for work and cuts off her benefits hastening her demise.She looks terrible. This is going to kill her if she's not careful
The Prime Minister is also a Type 1 Diabetic. Her condition requires very regular maintenance. She's clearly not been looking after herself to the point that I've become concerned for the state of her health.
T1 is easily managed if you have a brain. It's possible she's mismanaging it of course but you'd expect the PM has better healthcare access than us plebs and even I as an Enemy Of The People would get good, instant advice if I needed it. If she's having diabetic related issues it's because she's an arse.
But there's plenty of other things that could make a disastrous PM ill. Hunt may well be poisoning her, frinstance
If I'd just called an election, stuffed it up, lost a majority had to do a deal with a bunch of nutjobs then I might look a little unwell.
The deal with the DUP will just help speed things along, their demands will either be too big for her or too big for the centre of her party - Trump on HC for instance - what pleases some offends others.
She will also be in for a brutal few months in parliament if the opposition can carry some momentum. Needs some serious questions asked and replying like you own the place will start and backfire.
I don't think the DUP will appreciate some of the closer attention they are about to get either, as the press seem to have dropped her they can contrast the DUP polices with the positions of leading cabinet ministers.
The DUP is part of the British government now
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but to be part of a government a party needs to have ministerial positions.
We should all be aware of and know our history. Not for reasons for vengeance or retribution, but so the same mistakes can be avoided.
Any quest for justice/vengeance on both sides of the NI factions is doomed to continue the problem. From what little I know the Good Friday agreement seemed to be working, and time would sort out any lingering issues.
Seeing as both sides are nominally Christian, maybe the element of forgiveness should be first and foremost as demonstrated by McGuinness and Paisley.
Let's hope it does not now go tits up because of a power imbalance there.
And while I like to see May squirming with her "great victory" and potential leadership challenges because of the DUP, what is more important is continued peace in the province. Our society will be more damaged by the repercussions of a conflict there than anything the Muslim extremists can do.
What concerns me is incidents like that march in Liverpool - it was planned, but planned to go past an Irish pub. Probably just as a poke in the eye and I doubt there was any intention of provoking actual violence.
However the alliance of the DUP with a Tory govt changes things and it just takes one angry man to be the spark when you have a powder keg. That's the worry.
Today is going to be very interesting...
The Tories and the DUP is going to be great craic, dunno what ye are all worried about. Sit back and enjoy watching the Tories making themselves unelectable for generations! 😆
Is the DUP propping up May any more of a threat to the peace process than Corbyn (as an IRA sympathiser) becoming PM?
The Prime Minister is also a Type 1 Diabetic. Her condition requires very regular maintenance. She's clearly not been looking after herself to the point that I've become concerned for the state of her health.
I'm sure she's very grateful for your concern....but let's leave idle speculation about her health to the likes of the gutter press.
We're not the Yanks & smearing folks has a bad taste to it & tendency to backfire - see JC?
TBH she doesn't really need help in fing things up..
How is Corbyn as PM a threat to the good friday agreement?
May will directly rely on the votes of the DUP in order to stay in power.
Many years ago JC met SF to discuss peace at about the same time that various government officials were.
Do you get all your news from the Daily Mail? Is it hard to tell how the 2 things are massively different?
Is the DUP propping up May any more of a threat to the peace process than Corbyn (as an IRA sympathiser) becoming PM?
Yes. DUP propping up May could be a reality. Corbyn being an IRA sympathiser is just in your head, i.e. not reality. A clear difference for anyone that can look past the Daily Mail...
beautiful wilful ignorance. 😆 crack on fella, you're winning loads of points here.sv - Member
Is the DUP propping up May any more of a threat to the peace process than Corbyn (as an IRA sympathiser) becoming PM?
[quote=sv ]Is the DUP propping up May any more of a threat to the peace process than Corbyn (as an IRA sympathiser) becoming PM?
Could you deliver your barrage of lies somewhere where they might be believed - DM for example?
Calm down ladies it was only a question!
He had to be pushed hard to condemn IRA violence, is it so difficult to do? Suppose the concensus is he is a 'peace maker' along with his friends McGuiness/Adams/Anderson...
Also what most people are also worried about is a bunch of climate change denying creationist bigots having anything to do with education, human rights, environmental policy or dismantling of the protections provided by the EU.
sv - Member
Calm down ladies it was only a question!
One based in spurious details and vague facts. You used the words IRA Sympathiser - he condemned violence on all sides rather than specifically condemning one group.
Spot a reason why it's taken so long to make any progress? If you have to trot out and condemn each group to the right audience it will take a while.
He had to be pushed hard to condemn IRA violence, is it so difficult to do?
Not at all: he condemned violence from both sides very readily. It is usually interviewers with particular agendas who try and focus on the IRA and Corbyn just refused to single out one side.
again its strange times when the losers are happier than the "winners"
Obv not a Welsh rugby fan.
I wonder who's bankrolling them?
"The DUP has said that the £435,000 came the Constitutional Research Council, a group whose only publicly declared member is its chairman, Richard Cook, a former Conservative general-election candidate who lives near Glasgow and has business links with Saudi Arabian intelligence services. The council does not publish accounts and has refused to name its funders. [b]
Northern Irish election law allows political donations to be kept secret.[/b]"
More money pouring in from Aaron Banks via a different channel?
sv - MemberHe had to be pushed hard to condemn IRA violence
Nope, no he did not, he condemned all violence and then people played silly word games, as if "all violence" somehow didn't include the IRA.
Nope, no he did not, he condemned all violence and then people played silly word games, as if "all violence" somehow didn't include the IRA.
Then it should have pretty easy for him to say of course I condemn IRA violence rather than keep going over the 'all violence' statement.
Also just to point out the DUP are an awful party! Scandal after scandal over here but who cares sure isn't there that wonderful Good Friday agreement that makes everything so brilliant. Lumbered with a useless assembly that doesn't work except for those that get paid from it. Prisoners let out on early release, letters of comfort/Royal pardons (its ok to recognise the monarchy for those instead of murdering them! Still no list of names that got them though.).
I released a long. long time ago that anything other than moving on was futile, still doesn't change what evil people did back then and as I said we shouldn't rewrite history (both Loyalist/Republican).
Glad that the spotlight is on the DUP as it highlights how pathetic politics is in Northern Ireland. Voting is indeed pointless 🙁
Calm down ladies it was only a question!
Your "questions" do seem to be the classic push poll approach.
well, stop whipping a dead donkey then.I released a long. long time ago that anything other than moving on was futile,
sv - Member - Block User - QuoteThen it should have pretty easy for him to say of course I condemn IRA violence rather than keep going over the 'all violence' statement.
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Then it should have pretty easy for him to say of course I condemn IRA violence rather than keep going over the 'all violence' statement.
This subtle point there is that if you condemn all you do not simple one out. This seems to be the very point you don't get. Why can't you accept that all means all (and includes the IRA)
The 2 statements in the context of NI is key. One stands above the sectarian sides, the other doesn't.
good to see that many of you have come round to realise that corbyn is what he's always been , a person of highest integrity and great humility , he works in a snake pit full of opportunists , careerists, liars, thieves and worse , there are some honourable members as they are fond of calling each other but they are a minority .
the sight of the tory regime , who only seven weeks ago were smug about a landslide victory, now scheming with some terrorist apologists in order to cling to power , not in the interest of the country , just self serving , is like maybot mantras , digging a bigger hole , a week is a long time indeed in politics
Then it should have pretty easy for him to say of course I condemn IRA violence rather than keep going over the 'all violence' statement.
Your implication is that he quietly supports/supported IRA violence, isn't it? Thats what you're insinuating?
If Corbyn singled out the IRA, it could be argued as a breach of the GFA, he would be seen to be taking sides.
The only sensible approaches are to condemn all sides, or none.
[quote=sv ]Then it should have pretty easy for him to say of course I condemn IRA violence rather than keep going over the 'all violence' statement.
The irony is that if he had played the game of the interviewer and singled one side out, that would be far more of a threat to the peace process! In the same way that having an agreement with just one side is...