[Closed] Commuting on busy roads. Thoughts?

I view it as the same as walking through a dodgy part of town late at night, on my own - I know that I should be able to but typically choose not to take the risk. If others choose to then that's up to them.

i go the way i want to go

fast narrow A roads are not big on my list of things to do, because they can be terrifying, but if it avoids extra miles or hills, or is the only way to do it....

i couldnt give a rats arse if a few drivers dont like it.

bear in mind he's adding to impatient drivers impatience

Good point. The more impatient a driver is, the more likely they are to behave like a male chicken.

putting himself in danger by doing this on a particularly nasty piece of road, when there are better options available.

Education is needed to get more people on bikes. It's working in That London's Famous London at the moment as there are so many more routes around town signposted which give quieter routes.

I'd stick to the best route to get me to and from work. The traffics' feelings do not come into my consideration.
eg. There is a shorter route to my work which is cycle lane (of a sort) most of the way, however every few yards there is traffic lights, roundabouts junctions etc.
I choose to use the narrower, (yes, more dangerous) road which runs parallel (on the top of the hill), because it is a non-stop route.
The council have very recently stuck up a flashing sign saying "Caution cyclists" so I don't think I need to reconsider my route.

[edit][i]i couldnt give a rats arse if a few drivers dont like it.[/i] Yep, that's what I meant! 🙂

Pimp, I hear what you are saying, I have just started riding to work, 15mile each way down a national limit, tight, fast road and yep it has got hairy in the a few times already (just in the 2 weeks I have been riding it) but its one less car on the road and its doing me the world of good (not if I end up under the wheels tho). holding people up in cars is not really on my mind.

TBF I was one of those stupid impatient drivers, and its prob best I am off the road 😀

its their choice. however i bet there are loads of people on here who could ride into work and choose not to. *i have chosen not to for the last 10 years

I *could* use the A14 to get to work and indeed have seen a couple of cyclists on there but why would I when there is a far better alternative back route I can use.

I guess it just depends on what routes are around, but I always prefer the least traffic option, the house I bought was based on a traffic free cycle to my office being available!

[i]I was one of those stupid impatient drivers[/i]

I am too when I'm behind the wheel - impatient with crap drivers though, not cyclists.

More lights. Extensive first hand research shows that you can get away with murder if you're lit up like Christmas in Las Vegas. I've got 2 Exposure Flare rear lights, a Fibre Flare and a Cateye, 2 Exposure front lights plus a couple of those little BackUpz things.

Speed helps too, the faster you go the less likely cars are to try daft overtakes. It's the people who potter along at 10mph who get all the hassle cos they really are holding up the traffic (although yes, they have every right to be there etc)

its their choice.

Exactly, and I don't deny that for a second.

I understand with the whole [i]i couldnt give a rats arse if a few drivers dont like it[/i] attitude, but disagree with it. Ultimately there's more of them, gee'd up and driving quite lethal metal cages; you'd be foolish to not take them into consideration.

I completely agree with [i]but its one less car on the road[/i], which is why I am trying to commute by bike more (I have a 30 mile commute, so am often driving halfway before riding the other half). However, I actually want to enjoy being on the bike, so do take the slightly longer, quieter route.

I ride where I like, but I don't much like being buzzed by high speed traffic on an NSL A road, so I don't take the single-lane NSL A road to work despite it being shorter, I take the 1 mile extra, smaller hill, 40 limit road. But as a driver on the same roads I don't mind if a cyclist chooses to take the other. I used to ride 15 miles down an NSL dual carriageway as it was far preferable to the cycle lane next to it that was coated in glass!

they may live on that road and have no cjoice and IIRC you can ride your bike where you wish
Do you think petrolheads has a thread about car drivers avoiding quiet back lanes and leaving them free for the cyclcists.
Even on a cycling forum it is so pro car it staggers me

slowing rush hour traffic to a crawl

I cycle A roads PP and sod the drivers there is no quiet option it is the only road - without adding 10 miles to my 15 mile commute

Yer right without ommuting cyclists there would be free flowing traffic everywhere

To be honest it's pretty rare I see traffic held up by anything other than cyclists round here.

sorry crazy legs, i completely disagree with the speed comments.

it seems to me that most drivers can handle overtaking a rider doing 5-10mph, but when im doing 20mph they really struggle to judge the space required to overtake, resulting in nervous drivers pulling out, failing then pulling back in..... only a matter of time before one trys to squeeze in front.

and PMJ, i dont have to worry about all the cars, only one is gonna kill me.

There still building plenty of narrow roads now a day.

I dont know why they cant build wider roads by myself.

I imagine its because they think narrow road acts to lower speed but Id rather not be the speed restricter my self. Also probably because its cheaper.

All roads built should now have a road, two cycle lanes either side and wide pavements.

it seems to me that most drivers can handle overtaking a rider doing 5-10mph, but when im doing 20mph they really struggle

If the road is really really narrow and squiggly it can be difficult to over take a cyclist at 5-10 mph. But as soon as it straightens I agree it is much easier to over take a 5-10mph cyclist.

Holding up traffic wouldn't concern me at all.

What would concern me is that a fingertip movement by just one driver out of thousands, and I'm dead. What's the difference between that and someone holding a gun to my head and sayig they won't shoot?
They won't of course - mostly.

After being knocked off the bike for the second time, I've now learnt my lesson. I tend to take longer, more meandering routes to my destination. Safer is the word, not quicker. I add 3 miles on to my present commute so i can take a canal towpath route rather than the direct but ****ing busy A road

I like riding my bike. A lot. I think its the perfect way to commute. But I've learnt that being a militant cycle-nazi - I shall ride where i bloody well like - means I'll probably be dead. I don't want to be dead. It sounds rubbish

Speed helps too, the faster you go the less likely cars are to try daft overtakes. It's the people who potter along at 10mph who get all the hassle cos they really are holding up the traffic (although yes, they have every right to be there etc)

I'd agree with that. I believe it's also the case that if you look confident on the bike drivers will actually give you more room (hence the recommended sitting 2ft from the kerb).

[i]To be honest it's pretty rare I see traffic held up by anything other than cyclists round here. [/i]

On my commute route traffic gets held up more by buses, stupid ignorant 4x4 driving pillocks who haven't managed to work out the width of their pointless behemoth, traffic lights, the constant changing of the road from 2 lanes to 1 then back to 2. What's a couple of cyclists compared to that lot?!

I like riding my bike. A lot. I think its the perfect way to commute. But I've learnt that being a militant cycle-nazi - I shall ride where i bloody well like - means I'll probably be dead. I don't want to be dead. It sounds rubbish

+1

I'd swerve riding on busy, single lane A roads myself (e.g. A702 out of Edinburgh), it's just unpleasant - wing mirrors buzzing your elbow etc. I look forward to my commute, I don't want to treat it with trepidation.

That said, maybe if you do it every day you can get comfortable with it.

All roads built should now have a road, two cycle lanes either side and wide pavements.

Agree with binners and I also don't like cycle lanes - make the road 1.5 lanes wide and then there's plenty of room - one of my commute roads (A38 out of Bristol) is busy but 1.5 lanes wide which means I don't mind it - there's plenty of room for cars to get by without buzzing you but not enough room for them to try driving two abreast.

you comparing road cyciling to russian roulette Calm down it is hardly that dangerous. Coffeeking where do you live? Rural ish then
My commute takes the same time by car or bike. They often get irrate and try to overtake me to race to the 2 mile of standing traffic that I will just cruise past. They often then try to block me overtaking them.
tThere are a few places I will ride in the middle of the orad - I have had cars overtake me on blind bends even ythough I am doing the speed limit etc. You havwe to protect yourself but a little mutual respect is required. Some road users are very poor with their manner sand self control very little you can do but accpet this whethe ryou ar ein your car or on a bike. i think cars cut you up much more when you are in a car than on a bike tbh

if you look confident on the bike drivers will actually give you more room

the opposite is true actually

Dr Walker suggests the reason drivers give less room to cyclists wearing helmets is down to how cyclists are perceived as a group.
“We know from research that many drivers see cyclists as a separate subculture, to which they don’t belong,” said Dr Walker.
“As a result they hold stereotyped ideas about cyclists, often judging all riders by the yardstick of the lycra-clad street-warrior.
“This may lead drivers to believe cyclists with helmets are more serious, experienced and predictable than those without.
“The idea that helmeted cyclists are more experienced and less likely to do something unexpected would explain why drivers leave less space when passing.
“In reality, there is no real reason to believe someone with a helmet is any more experienced than someone without.
“The best answer is for different types of road user to understand each other better.
“Most adult cyclists know what it is like to drive a car, but relatively few motorists ride bicycles in traffic, and so don’t know the issues cyclists face.
“There should definitely be more information on the needs of other road users when people learn to drive, and practical experience would be even better.

http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/archive/overtaking110906.html

what Binners said, there will be permanently one fewer car on the road if you're dead, stick to safer quieter routes.

I cycle A roads PP and sod the drivers there is no quiet option it is the only road - without adding 10 miles to my 15 mile commute

That's fine Junkyard. And it's not about the flow of traffic here. My point is that there *are* options where I overtook this cyclist - would he be wise to use them?

the opposite is true actually

The opposite is Dr. Walker's findings and suggestions - not the truth. There is a difference.

i couldnt give a rats arse if a few drivers dont like it.

Yes. **** them.

You havwe to protect yourself but a little mutual respect is required. Some road users are very poor with their manner sand self control very little you can do but accpet this whethe ryou ar ein your car or on a bike.

I think that's the crux of the problem though - lack of respect. There is a common lack of respect in road use, and not just towards cyclists. It just so happens that we are normally the smallest vehicle on the highway.

So why deal with the lack of respect if you don't have to?

Yes. **** them.

Them and us.

I don't think I'm the only person here that sits in both camps.

DezB - Member

I was one of those stupid impatient drivers

I am too when I'm behind the wheel - impatient with crap drivers though, not cyclists

thats what i meant...

As for my commute, there isnt really another viable option, its either up the exe valley or over lots and lots of hills...

sticking to the back routes dosent work in all occasions.. I would if that option was open to me...

pimp has a point, cyclists and drivers need to be more aware of each other. (some more than other mind 😉 )

He may not have been commuting or may not know the area that well. It's all very well saying keep off fast, narrow A roads but sometime navigation / map failures + every sign pushes you on to the main road.

I prefer to stay off fast narrow A roads as they are not nice places to ride however even with excellent planning sometime you go wrong on your route and navigating through unfamiliar back roads can be very slow and awkward. I've ended up on A roads I would rather not been cycling to places on long rides before where this has happened.

He may not have been commuting or may not know the area that well. It's all very well saying keep off fast, narrow A roads but sometime navigation / map failures + every sign pushes you on to the main road.

I prefer to stay off fast narrow A roads as they are not nice places to ride however even with excellent planning sometime you go wrong on your route and navigating through unfamiliar back roads can be very slow and awkward. I've ended up on A roads I would rather not been cycling to places on long rides before where this has happened.

All very true. One of the backroads I used to use has been closed and is being converted into a BOAT due to HGVs using it after their GPS directed them up it.

I didn't envy him this morning though... 😉

Speed helps too, the faster you go the less likely cars are to try daft overtakes. It's the people who potter along at 10mph who get all the hassle cos they really are holding up the traffic

No it doesn't. your avergae car driver sees a bike and thinks "must overtake". If your bike is going at 10mph, he gets passed. Job done. If you're doing 30mph, car comes alongside you, sees oncoming traffic, then side-swipes you.
[i]unless[/i] you ride in the middle of the lane when you're going fast.

Depends how busy the road is. If you're in a flow of traffic and actually moving with it, people won't try and overtake. If you're pootling along and everyone has to slow down to your speed then floor it round you, problems are more likely to arise.

IME.

I agree with the OP.

would he be wise to use them?

Don’t know but I do know it is their choice so what can we do about it but deal with and drive patiently behind them?
I don’t know the road I honestly cannot comment on the specifics. The only bit locally I wont cycle is the roundabout at the end of the M65 Three lanes all going concentrically inward /moving with double lane esits to each junction, speeding drivers [50 mph I think is t he limit], cars everywhere just too dangerous IMHO I get off and walk across it. I would cycle everything else though.

The opposite is Dr. Walker's findings and suggestions - not the truth. There is a difference

Well yes if we need to discuss the use of the word "truth" in science you have a fair point. However my published and peer reviewed article trumps your opinion and provides data that suggests your hypothesis is incorrect. We should accept the null hypotheses-... but I thought that was a bit of a mouthful for this early in the morning 😆

why deal with the lack of respect if you don't have to

you mean take the train 😉
How can you avoid using roads?
We have the right to cycle where we want if other people choose to do this what can I say or do but accept it and deal with the situation without getting annoyed

However my published and peer reviewed article trumps your opinion and provides data that suggests your hypothesis is incorrect.

Gentlmanly PWNED!!!

[img] [/img]

Well yes if we need to discuss the use of the word "truth" in science you have a fair point. However my published and peer reviewed article trumps your opinion and provides data that suggests your hypothesis is incorrect.

😆 Fair enough. 🙂

I still have my '60s Chevy to play though. 😉

How can you avoid using roads?
We have the right to cycle where we want if other people choose to do this what can I say or do but accept it and deal with the situation without getting annoyed

Absolutely. My thoughts were though that the guy this morning (who was riding well in traffic) had other options available to him, which would prevent drivers getting annoyed. If he didn't then it would be a different matter.

I'm not saying he was right or wrong, but really just seeing how people's views lie.

Personally I would tag a mile or two on and avoid the road like the plague!

you mean take the train

Nah - plenty of disrespecting going on there... I used to commute into London. 😉

[url= http://goo.gl/maps/GVVl ]The road in question.[/url]

[i]To be honest it's pretty rare I see traffic held up by anything other than cyclists round here.[/i]

I'm utterly amazed that such a statement would appear on a cycling forum.

Even if there's a queue of cars behind me it's not me holding them up - I'm not the reason they can't overtake: it's the [u]CARS[/u] coming the other way.

I commute on the A50. A dual carrigeway. I feel seafer on that than on the parallel minor roads where folk drive at 70mph+ but the road is a LOT narrower.

My worst accident was on the cyclepath at the side of the dual (separate) when some **** knocked me off in his van. NOT on the road.

I purposely avoid busy roads and take a windier, slower route to work. Two main reasons for this:

a) I've got a 34/15 SS setup and I'll spin out on the flat at about 16-17mph. This will piss off the traffic I'm holding up, even though I've every right to be there

b) Because drivers are pissed off, they'll be trying to squeeze past on a busy, narrow, potholed road, and I'll be at a higher risk of being knocked off

it is straight so I would be happy to ride from what little i have seen - page not loading well here. It would depend on the other options for me tbh. If there was suitable alternative I probably would.
IME single lane narrow back roads are more dangerous due to blind bends and 60 mph speed limits - often used by boy racers to avoid amain orads whislt driving like they ar in a rally. I am no fan of those tbh.

Apologies drunkyard I did ont mean to imply that you would ever throw a snowball at a cat and/or take a picture of it.

[b]What binners said.[/b]

My current commute takes in urban roads, suburban roads, segregated and non-segregated cycle lanes, rural roads up to NSL and a major trunk road.

The place I feel least safe is the trunk road and so I take a slight detour to avoid as much of it as I can.

The place that I cause the biggest problem to cars is riding over a toll bridge. (1) I jump the queue (2) there isn't enough room to pass me on the way up or down. Most are patient, some are idiots.

If I move house, my commute will be 25 miles each way along unfamiliar roads, and plenty of unlit NSL roads. It will take a while to perfect the ideal (or best compromised) route.

Interesting that we are having this debate at all.

If I'm working in the centre of Bristol I have the option of the traffic free Bristol Bath Railway Path - meandering 17 miles or 14 miles on A4 (not that narrow, mix of NSL DC, 30, 40).

Very rarely I use the A4 (normally when I'm late and it's daylight etC). However there are plenty of folk who do and I'd uphold their right everytime. I'd have cheered this guy for being brave enough to uphold our rights!

It's interesting too that you think they've "held the traffic up". In the case of my commute, yes there may be a queue behind the cyclist but all people are 'speeding by' is doing is getting to the back of the next queue quicker. Door to door over the whole 14 miles it's quicker by bike.

I can see a worrying trend here. Ok a different case (not many people commute by horseback!) but there are a number of roads round here that people used to be able to horse ride on that have been made unrideable by the actions of motorists. As already said, it is not the cyclist who is being dangerous it's the actions of a minority of motorists.

If you feel you have to avoid these roads at certain times, how long before you are forced to avoid thses roads at certain times?

It's interesting too that you think they've "held the traffic up". In the case of my commute, yes there may be a queue behind the cyclist but all people are 'speeding by' is doing is getting to the back of the next queue quicker. Door to door over the whole 14 miles it's quicker by bike.

I know that, but mr angry car driver doesn't, hence his rage

[i]To be honest it's pretty rare I see traffic held up by anything other than cyclists round here. [/i]

I'm a bit sad seeing this coming from a cyclist.

Traffic jams, of which there are lots, and they're everywhere, are caused by cars, lorries, buses, vans, you name it. The only thing these things are not caused by is cyclists. I've even had people shouting at me in traffic jams when I cycle between the solid lanes of traffic, peresumably because they're frustrated that I'm making progress and they're not but the answer to any argument of that nature is always the same, 'You're being held up by cars, not bikes'.

If you feel you have to avoid these roads at certain times, how long before you are forced to avoid thses roads at certain times?

It's a good point and I certainly don't have an answer. Fortunately most of the roads that run near the above are 40 limits (but obviously there are people who don't stick to that). They are also narrow, so yes, speeding traffic on them is dangerous, when it happens. However, traffic is a lot lighter and the riding is far more pleasant. Another point is on the quieter roads there is a lot less going on, and consequently a lot less to distract both riders and drivers. Finally, when a car does encounter a cyclist, there is less pressure and more opportunity to pass safely.

I think "holding up" traffic is also unfair, although the rider in today's instance was causing a short car/lorry tailback on said road (hence me starting this thread).

I know that, but mr angry car driver doesn't, hence his rage

I think mr. Angry Car Driver has a sneaking suspicion, which probably winds him up even more. 😉

I've even had people shouting at me in traffic jams when I cycle between the solid lanes of traffic, presumably because they're frustrated that I'm making progress and they're not

Exactly, £30 000+ of car being overtaken by a bicycle is always going to do that to a certain type of motorist 👿

If tin can commuters could only get their heads around the fact that their car is a fossil fuelled mobilty aid not a personality compensator then things may get a bit better....