[Closed] Community speed watch ...

Much in the same way as the two women who reported us once for driving our Landy on the beach at Pilling. We received a letter from Lancashire Constabulary warning us that if we were seen again we would receive a Section 59 notice meaning the car would be seized if the reports continued.

We residents have used the same process to deal with habitual speeders in our street and to deal with two kids who were ragging their mopeds around and giving their mates backies without helmets. The Section 59 notice is an effective deterrent and they have all stopped their behaviour.

There's a leaflet on the wall here - it just says the local council co-ordinate with the local police.

sad bastards with nothing better to do with their time......

Let's play Spot the Troll...

[i]Let's play [s]Spot[/s] Ignore the Troll.. [/i]

Do the local people have any powers at all? I always assumed they were just using their data as ammunition to either a) get proper speed cameras on their road or b) apply to the council for traffic-calming measures.

Was the letter from a police force 300 miles away? If so, do you need to worry about your number plate being cloned?

how is it trolling? a job the police cant be arsed to do, so get some do-gooder retired folks to play god on the roads

🙄

Local people don't have any powers but some Police forces are happy to support community initiatives where folk are so pissed off with speeders in their street that they will stand out and report them. We live in a street that's used as a rat run by people who race through to beat traffic lights on the main road and the street's action group wanted to do this but unfortunately Lancashire Constabulary reckoned the street was not technically suitable for the speed camera, otherwise they would have trained residents to use it and given us a PCSO to be present.

We will never get traffic calming for three reasons:

1 - Our street is near the bottom of Lancashire's accident league table because we teach our kids to take care when crossing the road and have only had one injury in ten years. Contrast this with more "ethnic" inner areas of Blackburn where people take a fatalistic attitude to road safety and the streets are at the top of the league table and full of calming measures.

2 - Speed humps are now unfashionable because once they are installed 50% of residents will moan about them. Ask anybody who lives up at Tockholes near Darwen.

3 - Currently all residential streets in our area are being limited to 20mph and given tabletops. Unbelieveably a number of the residents in our street have objected, thus sabotaging our thirty year campaign for traffic calming.

They have just set a Community Speedwatch up by my girls' school in Pannal (Harrogate) and apparently it is being a great success.

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/community-speed-watch-seeing-positive-results-pannal/

Unfortunately in our village there's a problem with speeding, and there's regular collisions with parked cars, but no injuries. There's a standing agreement in our village that if anyone ever comes down with a terminal illness when they get to the end they'll throw themselves under a car. Until something serious happens the police simply aren't interested.

I'm not sad (perhaps a little at the end of Watership Down, or when Goose dies in Top Gun)
My Mother and Father where married when I was conceived and as far as I'm aware no-one else was involved.
I'm not retired.
I'm not God, nor have I ever played God although girls have often screamed his name to me...
Not sure what a 'Do-Gooder' is... Is it the opposite of a 'Do-Badder'?

I live on a road where there's no pavement on my side and my house is situated on a blind bend. It's called School road as there's a School situated on he road. The speed limit has been dropped to 20MPH to slow traffic down as requested by local residents, pedestrians and other road users alike.

Speedwatch was set up here last year and I volunteered to do my bit. There's one lady in particular who drives an X5 with no regard for pedestrians or bikes and is generally a menace. I would consider her to be a bad driver as regardless of the conditions she continues to use this road (during school travel times) normally between 30-40MPH. Having noted her down on more than one occasion doing more than 50% of the speed limit, she got a letter. She no longer uses this road as a rat run. Was it worth 10 hours of my life to achieve that? I think so.

She wasn't the only one that got a letter from the County Constabulary either... The amount of people going 10% + 4MPH over was staggering (40 per hour) and if it makes people think twice about speeding then it can only be a good thing. If you're caught more than 5 times, you get a letter and if you're doing 50% more, then you get a letter. 5 letters and plod come knocking on your door. People have received prosecutions because of speed watch but they are few and far between. It's more about awareness and it seems to be a worthwhile scheme to be involved in, because it works.

Interestingly I've had some exposure to this since I joined my local parish council. In our village the data is collected and passed to the local police force if there are 3 separate recordings of excessive speed.

One of the two allocated areas in my village, you have to have permission to site a scheme, is where a 40 limit becomes a 30 mph limit and 100 metres or so after this is where around 40 school children stand to catch the school bus. Only this morning, as I was about to turn onto this 'main' road, I saw a car travelling at ~40 -45 mph with the driver looking at their mobile!

The police did some data capture and at least 35% of cars broke the speed limit by more than 10% during rush hour and one motocycle was recorded at 59mph and that's in a 30 zone!

a job the police cant be arsed to do, so get some do-gooder retired folks to play god on the roads

Plenty of retired do-gooders in our village as they're regularly doing this outside our primary school. Am happy for them to continue, especially if it's having a positive effect.

Good on you sparkyspice.

Unlike [s]the troll[/s]Oscillate Wildly I think it is a good initiative: Police speed traps are often dismissed as money-making exercises or just them trying to meet targets. It is a much more powerful message when it's local residents saying "We've had enough of people speeding through our streets".

There is talk of doing one in our village (an advisory 20 where it's not unusual to see folk doing 40+).

I think it's a good thing, generally.

Down our road we've got a couple of sharp corners....people regularly drive so fast down the road that they squeal their car tyres going round these corners.
I've driven down the road fairly quickly, but can't replicate this at anything approaching a 'safe' manner. Doesn't even seem to be a 'type of person'; white van man, school run mum with kids, school run mum without kids, young girl in a Mini, chav kids in a Corsa, OAP couple in a Kia Sportage.....etc. etc.

If you reverse onto our drive, you get abuse if a car comes round the corner while you are 'mid manoeuvre' as you are blocking their way & if you drive in forwards to prevent this, you then get abuse while you are reversing out.

I'd love to see plod down there every now & again 'educating' these morons, but there isn't the resource to do it. If someone set-up a community speedwatch group down our road (hmmmm, now there's an idea) I'd support it.

A bloke at work was caught by one of these speedwatch groups doing 38 in a 30 and received a letter in the post.
He fully admitted to 'doing that sort of speed through a village every day' on his way to work, but could see no problem in doing this.
He tiraded about these 'do-gooders' for a good while though, rather than thinking that perhaps if he wasn't driving like a dick these 'do-gooders' wouldn't feel the need to set these speedwatch things up....

Back to the OP.
I am intrigued by the fact that your number has been recorded wrongly or unfairly by local residents twice and a further time 300 miles away.

This means either
- you have a clone car (we had friends who discovered that there was a clone of their Corsa in the same city, finally put to rest after a year of stress by them being able to prove the Corsa was on the ferry to Arran, and speeding in South Yorkshire within 10 minutes of that time...
- you are faster than you think?
- the non-locals made a mistake, the once, and you are faster than you think?

[quote=Oscillate Wildly ]sad bastards with nothing better to do with their time......

<clip clop, clip clop>

So what exactly better things than making the roads safer should these people be doing with their time?

FWIW my impression of such schemes is that they are a great initiative, and not really even in the same category as speed cameras which automatically issue you with a fine (I'll happily be a bit scathing of the use of speed cameras - but I doubt anybody will be setting up a community speed watch on a 50 limit DC).

What technology is being used to record these speeds, what training do the users receive, is it being regularly calibrated and is it being used in accordance with instructions? While I don't disagree with the concept I'm worried we are handing law enforcement over to a bunch of amateurs.

[quote=scotroutes ]I'm worried we are handing law enforcement over to a bunch of amateurs.

We're not, because they're not providing law enforcement. If a case came before the courts due to their evidence then at that point it would be reasonable to demand evidence of training, calibration and following instructions, as I'm sure any lawyer worth his salt would. Not that I'm aware such a case has ever arisen.

The village road we live on is 30mph. The highest recorded figure during some monitoring by the community speed watch during 2004 was 96mph. Almost everyone speeds. I sit at 30mph (as I live here) and cars soon bunch up behind me. Often I get overtaken even though the actual distance along the road is short. I think community speed watch do a good job if they slow the traffic down. If a child steps into the road they will not get a second chance in life.

aracer - the stories above appear to contradict that.

Scotroutes - where are there any stories of law enforcement?

No one has received a fine or been to court.

I'd much rather the habitual speeders who go through our 20-zone village were targeted with a Javelin anti-tank missile than a letter.

Surely for the community speedwatch info to be used against you then they have to have evidence or else it's their word against yours. As far as I'm aware they need a picture of said offence from the device they were using that shows the driver, registration and recorded speed (and maybe location info?).

Otherwise what's actually going to happen? You'll get a telling off from the police but they wouldn't have any evidence to bring a case in court as you could just say they had a grudge against you and simply made it up.

I'd say you should request the evidence of your other two alleged infringements. As for the other time you were contacted then you could go down the same route in case your car's been cloned.

Even a normal, athletics-grade javelin would give them pause for thought.

There's no pattern to the people that were caught speeding. Mum's at the school, white van-man, old, young, posh car, rust heap. The only common denominator was that they really weren't thinking about what they were doing. The speed indicator device is enormous, it's 2 or 3 operatives are not allowed to be camouflaged or hide, the 20mph signs are big enough to see and are written on the road 8ft in length. If they get caught their speed flashes up and it's recorded along with the time, Regesration, Make and Model of Car. no-one has ever complained at the site on my road. When 35mph flashes up on the sign, the moral high ground has gone, regardless of whether the operatives are do-gooders or otherwise...

[quote=corroded ]I'd much rather the habitual speeders who go through our 20-zone village were targeted with a Javelin anti-tank missile than a letter.

I'd probably want them to have calibration certificates if going that route.

It's calibrated every time it's set up - using a tuning fork that vibrates at 25 mph!

The operatives have to be taught and approved by the Constabulary to operate the Speed Indicator Device (SID)

Speedwatch does not obtain prosecutions. It promotes awareness and in our case, it worked.

Actually I'm interested in this, because I presume it's what prompted Colin's remarks:

[quote=sparkyspice ]People have received prosecutions because of speed watch but they are few and far between.

Presumably in such cases it's simply a prompt for the police to investigate further and obtain their own evidence? I wasn't personally aware of any such case, but then it's not something I'm directly involved with (thankfully not really a problem around here).

[i]Let's play [s]Spot [/s]Ignore the Troll..[/i]

Not very good at this game, you lot! 😉

Looks like we have at least two stories emerging. One, the OP can safely ignore said letters Two, theres a big sign indicating the speed.

And what about globalti and his section 59?

DezB - Member
Let's play Spot Ignore the Troll..

Not very good at this game, you lot!

Interestingly in our local Speedwatch zone (where I always observe the speed limit) I have been (on more than one occasion) been tailgated by the same car (private plate, lives in the village) as he is clearly too impatient to travel at 20mph for the 150 or so metres from the 20mph zone starting to his house. If he does it one more time I am going round to have a word.

Scotroutes - one and two aren't law enforcement. They're public safety and crime reduction / prevention.

No idea what's going on with Globalti and his section 59's.

[quote=scotroutes ]And what about globalti and his section 59?

You could always read the relevant legislation and decide for yourself whether that can be applied simply due to the word of busybodies:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/30/section/59

(and I see nothing in his post suggesting the letter he got is inaccurate in the application of that law)

The problem here is identifying who is the troll.

Troll singular?

wwpaddler - Member
Scotroutes - one and two aren't law enforcement. They're public safety and crime reduction / prevention

The threat of law enforcement appears to be perfectly viable. The community speed watch can be seen as triage.

The threat of law enforcement is no more viable than what you or I are living with. It's a reminder that law enforcement can and does occur ie that the next person you see at the side of the road wearing a fluo jacket and waving a speed gun around may be a real police officer who can carry out law enforcement.

Contrast this with more "ethnic" inner areas of Blackburn where people take a fatalistic attitude to road safety and the streets are at the top of the league table and full of calming measures.

Classy.

wwpaddler - so what does this mean?

I am now on my finally warning and my registration has been passed onto the local traffic officers

That the OP may get a letter from the police rather than CSW. If the OP's misdemeanours are deemed significantly serious they may receive a social visit from a PC for a chat.

Basically The same as what happens if you report a "bad" driver for close passing you on your bike

IIRc section 59 is a warning that your car has been driven antisocially and if you get 2 ( or 3) then your car is taken off you for a short period of time.

Whilst not directly relevant, as it was not a speed partnership, it is has happened that locals who ask for speed checks who get caught by them. A case in point was a local woman who complained in the local press that she was caught, twice, in her village after speed detector vans were introduced 'treated like a drunk driver'.
http://www.malverngazette.co.uk/news/947564.Driver___s_fury_as_cameras_capture_her_a_third_time/
The error of her ways were presented by the speed camera partnership and she effectively had to grovel in a later edition
http://www.malverngazette.co.uk/news/malvern/957223.Driver_is_brought_up_to_speed_at_safety_meeting_/

The error of her ways were presented by the speed camera partnership and she effectively had to grovel in a later edition

[img] [/img]

Some people are just idiots

That's brilliant jimw.

Her: I was only doing 32mph and here's me with my bad back, Crohn's disease and the diabetus. They treat me like a criminal. They're not getting the real people who are speeding, just us innocent locals.

Them: Actually you were doing 44mph in a 30, so not only were you speeding significantly through a residential area, you also apparently had no idea you were doing it. And you weren't even paying enough attention to spot a speed trap that has caught you twice before!

Her: ...

😆

Thanks for the feedback, just to clear up a couple of things I wasn't clear about originally.

The first letter I received was for a car which was SORN, it was at home in my garage and I was at work at the time. I contacted the local police force where it was reported as I was worried about it having been cloned. The police said it was more than likely a mistake but they would keep an eye out for the plate.

The second letter was sent to me for a different car, this one was dated the same date a girlfriends birthday, I saw the speed watch team as soon as I came round the corner at around 15mph, I sat at around 25mph while I passed them.

The third letter was last dated last Saturday, again I saw the team, one of them register my speed, I checked my speed which was 27MPH. I saw them write something in a book, I'm guessing my reg and them today I received a letter. I remember wondering why they had bothered to write my reg down when I wasn't speeding at the time. There was a car behind me which caught me quickly coming through the 30 limit on this occasion so I wonder if they recorded the wrong car, having never used a speed gun I don't really know if this is possible.

A case in point was a local woman who complained in the local press that she was caught, twice, in her village after speed detector vans were introduced 'treated like a drunk driver'.
http://www.malverngazette.co.uk/news/947564.Driver___s_fury_as_cameras_capture_her_a_third_time/
The error of her ways were presented by the speed camera partnership and she effectively had to grovel in a later edition
http://www.malverngazette.co.uk/news/malvern/957223.Driver_is_brought_up_to_speed_at_safety_meeting

"Otherwise law-abiding" as long as you don't count the laws that she breaks. 🙄

This all sounds very good but I can't help think a few sad old timers with spare time on their hands and a 50 calibre rifle (or some enfields for the really old) could cut out lots of jibba jabber excuses, not to mention paperwork for the parish council and any chance of mistaken identity.

Contrast this with more "ethnic" inner areas of Blackburn where people take a fatalistic attitude to road safety and the streets are at the top of the league table and full of calming measures.

All these effnics, comin' over 'ere, taking all our traffic calming measures.

"Otherwise law-abiding" as long as you don't count the laws that she breaks. 🙄

One of those phrases you only really see applied to motorists.

I've never seen anyone described as an otherwise law-abiding mass-murderer. 😀

Genuine question... how do these initiatives calibrate their equipment? Or don't they? If, as the OP says, he doesnt believe he was going over the limit then it raises the question. Also, how do the locals maintain any sense of impartiality and objectivity without letting personal vendettas come to the fore? I can see in general they're trying to do a good thing, I just think it's a can of worms.

@Demonracer

- first one/SORN car sounds like a clone car...
- Second two - are you sure it isn't 20mph? Speak to the police/community team and challenge them (nicely, of course).