theotherjonv - I'm broadly on your side.
I think you've posted before about your daughter being insulted/abused by 'middle class' arsehole customers; they should be sprayed with shit and banned.
Your daughter's boyfriend is to be applauded for trying to make some money to support his studies but...commission only cold calling is unlikely to benefit him - either financially or emotionally and is, IMO, morally questionable.
Can he not find another vacation job which does not involve any 'moral compromises'?
Shelf stacking, bar work were always the defaults; factory labouring?
Jeez - why do people even answer calls from unknown numbers? Life's too short for all that shit. If the call is important, the caller will leave a message. If they don't, it's obviously not important or relevant...easy
I understand his desperation but I still have precisely zero sympathy
Pretty sure he doesn’t need your sympathy, what he needs is your empathy.
How about a little empathy or sympathy for folk in my position. I was working 12 hr night shifts. I have to keep my phone on because of elderly parents. To get woken in the middle of the day when I am sleeping when the person phoning me has broken the law. Yet you want me to remain polite and /or not waste their time?
The caller has been rude, broken the law and wasted my time. But I am not allowed by you to do the same? No legitimate company would be doing this
So if he calls me he or someone up the chain has breached data protection, has breached TPS etc etc
The company has breached data protection. But there's no need to unload at the poor sod who wasn't part of the decision making process. In fact there's no need to do that anyway. Actual scammers aren't going to be affected by your outrage in the least. Just put the phone down and go back to bed. You'll feel better for it in the end.
Why should I be polite in return?
I dunno, maybe because it's the right thing to do? Maybe because you shouldn't judge people without knowing the whole story? You don't have to be nice, but equally you don't have to be an arse. Just hang up.
Well at least you tried to post something amusing OP.I found it funny if that helps at all? I’ve never been abusive to cold callers or people in Yodel/Evri chats when my order isn’t delivered and they make up contradictory reasons as to why. If I have time I absolutely will see how much I can derail them from their script or pretend I’ve been kidnapped, am a time traveller etc.
Anybody that abuses shop workers, service staff, carers, medical personnel etc are absolute arseholes. If I witness it I’ll join in on the side of the person just trying to do their job. I genuinely love picking on bullies.
My business used to have a cold caller company phone between one and fifteen times a day, Id hang up and they would phone back taking the piss. I've had all sorts of verbal abuse from them, one day the same guy phoned my shop constantly for about 20min to the point where I unplugged the phone. I think I even started a thread or two about it as it was affecting the business so badly.
We are logged with the business version of telephone preference, and I've a phone filled with blocked numbers, but they would still phone. I found that the biggest difference i could make was removing my business details from Yell. Instantly cold calls dropped by about 90% over night. Because <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I was publicly providing my business number on the internet the business TPS was effectively null and voided. I did that about 3 or 4 years ago and while they still phone, its about once a week.</span>
I now do not answer the business phone unless it's a local number, mobile (quite often a cold caller), or number I recognise from a supplier on the phones white list.
If I'm not sure if the number is genuine, I Google it before answering or phoning them back and make some excuse about serving a customer.
Ive outlined my position on this just above, but point of order:
But there’s no need to unload at the poor sod who wasn’t part of the decision making process.
Sorry, the "poor sod" is absolutely part of the decision making process. They choose to do this job (or remain in this job if they somehow got hood-winked into a cold-calling job without realizing it).
I'm definitely with TJ on this - I don't suffer fools like a lot of posters on this thread seem to do though, to be clear, I now NEVER answer a call from an unknown or blocked number so I've not had to deal with these idiots for many years.
In the past, whenever I got a cold-caller, I simply hung up without entering into ANY discussion - as I said, life's to short to get involved in any of that shit.
"I was only following orders" is never a sufficient excuse for doing something shit. They need to take some responsibility for their choices.
They need to take some responsibility for their choices.
They do, but it's still not your job to abuse them.
They do, but it’s still not your job to abuse them.
To be fair it all conflates together pretty neatly. After 20 mins or so in the job I think you'll have got a pretty clear message that the unrequested calls you are being paid to make are very much unappreciated. At that point if you decide to carry on you are a-making a choice that this job with dubious morals is still worth your while and b-have a thick enough skin (or care so little about the attitude of your 'customers') that the 'abusers' are wasting their time.
As John has stated above, the lad he knows who does this (and suffers the inevitable indignant abuse) has other choices; but chooses this as the less of various evils because it suits his lifestyle more. Granted, there may well be others with childcare issues or maybe mobility issues who don't have other options. But for me I would have to have run out of all other options before I considered it.
I've ticked every do not call box known to man. If a company decides to mass call a number range and gets through to me wasting my time then I'm going to waste theirs.
It's not personal to the caller, they just happen to be the company's representative that gets through to me.
Note I've been in the other end too. Customer services for a very large utility company is eye opening. I just took it on the chin when someone felt the need to get shouty.
They have been rude to me by cold calling me. Why should I be polite in return?
Well, ya know, two wrongs don't make a right and all that.
One of my colleagues gets a lot of these calls in the office and he regularly spends 20 minutes shouting at them so most of the office can hear. It's quite embarrassing and also causes disruption. I keep suggesting to him that he just says, "sorry, I'm not interested" and then hangs up. But he seems to enjoy going bright red.
Personally I just do what I suggested to him.
What do people do with email or postal marketing of services they don't want? Hit delete, throw in the bin? Or spend 20 mins of their time writing angry emails or letters back so that companies have to waste time opening, reading, etc?
I suspect rather than 'providing a service' by preventing them calling someone else, at least some of the abusive responders actually enjoy giving it out to the person on the other end. And then justify it because the telemarketers shouldn't make poor life choices, but really, what does that say about them as people?
The worst part is that most people who still have a landline are old and infirm like TJ 🤭 therefore more likely to fall for a scam or be less inclined to put the phone down. The companies that do this will know that and it makes them a set of utterly reprehensible bastards in my book. I do, however, have some empathy for those who work for them. You must be in a shit place in life or quite desperate. Failing that you’re criminal and in on it.
This thread reminded me of this absolute classic
It's a new perspective thats for sure;
"Be kind to scammers and fraudsters as they're only trying to earn a crust!"
next up will we have
"Be kind to muggers, they're only trying to scrape together enough for their next fix"? or "the poor lad's only robbing your bikes 'cos he's poor, benefits are so stingy these days - do be kind"
No - sorry. If you willingly work in a dodgy / [borderline] illegal industry you ought to expect to be treated with social distain.
As others have said, there's a massive difference between a UK call centre, calling to generate leads for double glazing, insulation, gutter cleaning, solar panels etc, and the foreign scam calls that pretend to be fraud prevention for Microsoft etc.
Back in the day, I actually did almost a year of evening shifts cold calling for double glazing to supplement my day job as I'd just rented my first flat and needed the extra cash. It was bloody hard work, you had to hit various KPIs every shift (volume of calls, effective calls, appointments set), working from a provided list of numbers. If I remember correctly (20 years ago), you had to achieve 100 dials per shift - fail a KPI sweep and you'd not be booked for your next shift. It was brutal, but the people there (a mix of young working class lads, and young mums, presumably all fitting it in around commitments whether eork or childcare related) were all decent people just trying to make ends meet, and knowing if they deviated off plan, there was no more work for them.
So yeah, maybe treat them with a bit of dignity & decency, they don't make the rules and you don't know the "why" they're there.
Theotherjohnv - one big thing I'll say is that the time I spent cold calling has stood me in bloody good stead ever since, certainly had to not be afraid of picking up the phone (a major hurdle employers are facing with young workers now) and strong work ethic, as well as understanding the whole fact success is a numbers game. Fair play to the lad - it's character building in every sense 👍👍
“Be kind to scammers and fraudsters as they’re only trying to earn a crust!”
...said no-one.
What do people do with email or postal marketing of services they don’t want? Hit delete, throw in the bin? Or spend 20 mins of their time writing angry emails or letters back so that companies have to waste time opening, reading, etc?
If its personally addressed ( a very rare thing - its been years) I sometimes will find out from them where they got my name and address from and have the company who provided my details censured under GDPR. When a junk mailer finds they have your address illegally they are very keen to help by telling you who gave them your details to make sure they are not prosecuted by showing they acted in good faith
So for I have had the NMC - the nurse professional body censured for this, a mail order company and an estate agents . However junk mailer are much more careful and as I am on the equifax and experion no mail lists its many years since I had one.
that most certainly is a service in the case of the NMC. They sold my details illegally to an insurance company. they had to stop doing so, act within GDPR and apologise to everyone whose details they sold. I had no option but to give them my details to remain registeredas a nurse. Selling my details to an insurance company was clearly illegal and they rightly got into trouble for it.
Email - not just delete but re[port as spam so the spam filters know not to let it thru. Longtime since I had a junk email.
Tilting at windmills perhaps but in at least 3 cases I got the person who illegally used my snail mail address censured and their practices changed so they no longer did it
" all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing"
But once again - as above its been many years since a personally addressed piece of junk mail and a good few since any UK based telephone calls
IHN - said quite a few folk on this thread. There is no legitimate reason for telephone cold calling
Funnily I have just answered an Edinburgh number - to find it is some 'sue your landlord for dodgy housing' scam...
And the difficult bit is we have just been signing up eldest_oab's new house rent for next year - with Edinburgh estate agent, and have had contact a couple of months ago with Edinburgh Council Landlord Registration folk to complain over the poor state of the rented house... So I a) answered and b) gave it 30 seconds of my time before realising it was a scam.
Talk about threading the needle with a scam call...
someone has sold your details illegally there then Matt. Probably the estate agent IME
The TPS and as far as I know the equivelent mail service aren't ever 100% accurate, as numbers are re-used.
IHN – said quite a few folk on this thread.
No, no-one said it. What some have said is "not all cold calls are a scam" and/or "you don't need to be a dick, you can just hang up".
There is no legitimate reason for telephone cold calling
That is demonstrable nonsense (notwithstanding your valid points about TPS/GDPR etc)
Anyway, I sense this is one of those threads where you've chosen a hill to die on, so I'll hang up
If its demonstrable nonsense then demonstrate it 🙂
I'll stick my head above the parapet and say that I used to own a company that did B2B cold calling. This was back in the noughties and it was pretty successful. We sold everything from accountancy services to new cars to leasing companies to flower arrangements to software.
We subscribed to TPS and while we vetted every number on every list we used, we always founds errors and always reported them. We even helped folks who we called in error sign up for TPS - we either gave them the number to call, or offered to do it for them, as TBH it was worth our time to do that - we didn't want to 1. break the law, or 2. end up talking with folks like TJ - as it takes up too much time.
Our callers were mums, university kids, we had a barmaid in between jobs and we employed (at it's maximum) 15 people and paid for things like local cleaners and so on.
I get what TJ is saying about scammers, but TBH loads of those folks (especially from the Indian sub continent) are ex-helpline staffers, but after folks decided that it was OK to be racist and say that they didn't want to talk to to Indian helpdesk staff, many of them lost their jobs, and scamming IT is probably 1. the only they're "qualified" to do, 2. the only job in town. 3 they probably have massive debt, or are being forced to do it. So yeah, just put the phone down or just say "no thanks" and put the phone down.
We even helped folks who we called in error sign up for TPS – we either gave them the number to call, or offered to do it for them, as TBH it was worth our time to do that – we didn’t want to 1. break the law, or 2. end up talking with folks like TJ – as it takes up too much time.
If I get one and they do that then its fine and all solved amicably in a few seconds. If someone says " whoops we shouldn't have called you I'll take you off our list" it is fine
B2B is also very different to cold calling residential numbers
TJ I know you've got a hard line on this and probably won't want to listen to or consider an alternative viewpoint, but I can say there definitely IS a legitimate reason and value for cold calling - from both a consumer and business perspective.
Where we live now, the houses were built in the 50s. There's actually 2 different energy efficiency/insulation schemes (and apparently soon solar again too) that properties in the area are eligible for. If people didn't know there was such a scheme in existence to even know to look for it, especially if not Internet savvy, how might they find out about said schemes? Ah yes, someone from a call centre representing a business operating under said scheme. Customers insulate their houses at reduced/subsidised cost, businesses make money, everyone wins.
I had a call from one provider not long after having completed the works with another under the same scheme. Politely told them this, no harm done.
Look into those companies that do the cold calling on insulation . Totally riddled with scammers to the point both Scot gov and Trading standards advise against going down that route
those schemes were widely advertised by the government
say “no thanks” and put the phone down
+1 simple and courteous without being a dick about it.
I enjoy the "have you been in an accident" or "We are calling about the accident you had" ones, I like to start off simple in my explanation of the accident and slow get more outlandish. My favourite is 20 mins explaining a simple fender bender that injured my back, the vehicle that crashed into my car was a cessna. Took them a good 20 mins before question what kind of car a cessna was.
Or referring to the other vehicle as "the basket" throughout a long drawn out explanation of a slow speed crash which left my car very damaged and me with lacerations to my face due to the sharp wicker. The big reveal is finally stating the other vehicle is a hot air balloon.
OR explaining how you lost your leg in a bicycle accident but the twist is that it was a prosthetic leg and you found it moments later in a bush and re-attached it.
B2B is also very different to cold calling residential numbers
Yep, I agree with you that many many of the firms that CC residential numbers are often not legitimate, we wouldn't touch it ever; just not interested. I understand why folks are contemptuous and angry if they're called, I try not to be ,but it's personal decision I guess.
Look into those companies that do the cold calling on insulation . Totally riddled with scammers to the point both Scot gov and Trading standards advise against going down that route
those schemes were widely advertised by the government
TJ is right, they do. Unfortunately because some companies are unscrupulous all are tarred with the same brush. Although i note that in the link he put previously, they say that "In the last year, consumers across Scotland have lost well over £80,000 through misleading green energy sales"
At a cost of maybe £500-1000 per install, that's what - 100-150 installs? Before damning them all how many 'cold calls' actually led to consumers getting a good value install and a subsidy that they didn't know about?
Of course the TSS people focus on the negatives, it's their job to protect.
As a counterpoint from MSE
What can you get?
Since 2013, 2.5 million homes have benefitted from free or subsidised energy efficiency home improvements under the Government's Energy Company Obligation (ECO) scheme – which requires most energy suppliers to offer measures that help low income, fuel-poor and vulnerable households to heat their homes.
The bastards.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-cavity-loft-insulation/
B2B cold callers are the worst of them all.
At least with domestic phones you can choose to ignore and assume any genuine caller will leave a message but with a business every call is a potential sale and so you end up putting real customers on hold to grab a **** idiot asking for the 'owner of the business' so he can sell you accountancy services and flower arrangements. We get them ALL the time dispite being registered with TPS etc.
TJ is spot on. Its not a valid business model, just go away. If I want to buy a product or a service then I'll search for it when its convienient for me, not you.
"Legitimate Interest" is what the callers are hiding behind. They have - or at least, claim to have - legitimate interest to call you as part of their business and this includes regular consumers as well as B2B.
I personally think it's... let's say woolly. I haven't looked at it for a while so may be off the mark, but it was my understanding that "we want to sell you things" isn't sufficient to constitute Legitimate Interest on its own, they also have to have reason to believe that they want you to call them. Eg, their calling list is from the local church and they're hawking bibles.
Where this gets confusing is they may well be acting in good faith. If they've bought a call list from somewhere else - as you exampled yourself, TJ - and they're going through a list of people who they believe have opted in to receive their marketing. A legit cold caller will have a code of practice which includes things like cross-referencing with the TPS and having the caller know the source of your number. But none of that is a legal requirement AFAIK.
In any case. The rest of GDPR trumps Legitimate Interest, so if you tell them they've made a mistake and to stop calling then they have to comply.
Has anyone here actually bought something after a cold-call?
Has anyone here actually bought something after a cold-call?
I was wondering that. It's probably worthwhile in the hopes of rinsing someone's pension or some such. I mean, it has to be worthwhile somehow, right, or they wouldn't do it? The ratio of sales to **** offs must be vanishingly low though.
B2B cold callers are the worst of them all.
Bastards, the lot of them
Has anyone here actually bought something after a cold-call?
elderly and vulnerable do. I have known of two folk get rinsed by scammers.both vulnerable and one lost thousands. Both total ripoffs
The ratio of sales to **** offs must be vanishingly low though.
The most successful campaigns we ever did were the flowers and the accountancy. I remember talking to a chippy who was literally just about to try to ring around to find one, and we saved him a job. The "flower arrangement for your lobby" was so successful the company that had signed us up told us to stop about 4-5 weeks into a 6 week campaign as they had too much work to cope with it all.
Has anyone here actually bought something after a cold-call?
They wouldn't keep paying people to do it if it wasn't making any money.
yes - every now and then they find a vulnerable person to bamboozle into buying something overpriced and unusable
Has anyone here actually bought something after a cold-call?
Given the number of IT professionals here, undoubtedly.
I work for an IT reseller. B2B mind.
