I happened to be walking past my land line, which I'd left plugged in after calling Virgin. It was a cold caller.
CC "We're checking on....... Are you the home owner?" (Very robotic voice)
Me "Are you human?"
CC long pause "Yes I'm human"
Me "Are you human?"
CC long pause "Yes I'm human"
Me "Are you human?"
CC longer pause "Yes I'm human, sorry I'm new at this, I'm reading from a script, sorry if that makes me sound monogamous"
Me "So you only marry one person at a time?"
CC pause "Thank you for your time, have a nice rest of the day"
I think it's going to be a while before AI takes over my world.
🤣🤣🤣
I rarely answer my phone to unknown numbers but if I do I'll try and remember to do something similar!
It must be pretty miserable being the people who do this.
I'm not talking about the ones who organize it all, but the ones who are trying to find a way to feed themselves and their families, and this is where they wind up.
**on reflection, deleted **
It must be pretty miserable being the people who do this.
In fairness, I'm usually nice to people who cold call, except for those trying to steal from me, but this was clearly an algorithm with a set of pre-recorded responses. Although the response which should have been "monotonous" didn't have quite the same meaning.
Call me whatever you like but I have zero time for cold callers. Depending on mood I either string them along to waste their time or just swear loudly at them to let them know what I think and put the phone down. Almost all are acting illegally.
Ive kept one on the phone for 20+ mins before and also had them call me back thinking i was a lead but somehow we had lost connection.. My favourite ploy is to say " that sounds interesting, hold on a mo" and put the phone down but not hang up.
the more of their time you waste the less time they have to scam a vulnerable person
When I was WFH during/post covid we had daily cold-caller. We were polite to him initially, but after the umpteenth time of him not removing us from his list we started getting snarky with him. It went on for weeks.
Eventually I decided being snarky was only getting me riled up for no good reason, so I started being daft instead.
I pretended to be a scared child, I pretended to be a dog, and most relevant to the OP, I pretended to be a robot who wasn't authorised to speak to him.
This all seemed to entertain me more than him and after the 3rd day of it he stopped calling 🙂
Call me whatever you like
that would be a great thread. ☺️
I am polite but clear to them at the beginning of the call that they're wasting their time. This is for both of our's benefits, me so that I can put the phone down, and them so that they don't waste time with me and can move on to the next person on their list.
If they don't listen, then they've consented to whatever comes next and get what they deserve IMO.
the more of their time you waste the less time they have to scam a vulnerable person
I would have agreed, but seeing the other side of the fence my opinion isn't as harsh. My daughter's boyfriend is trying to supplement his grant through the summer and enable him to get through his University career without going absolutely broke. Not all Uni students are kids of rich parents, and I admire him because at present it's soul destroying but also vital.
Sure, he could go for bar work or fruit picking or whatever, but this also fits around being able to work odd shifts and also enable him to have a bit of a life too. He's working for an agency that pick up various jobs / surveys, all sorts, and a lot of what he does is not paid and all commission. So you wasting his time when he actually isn't doing anything illegal or scammy is TBH a bit shit, if that then is preventing him trying to earn a crust. A day full of folks doing that and he goes home depressed and out of pocket for the train fare to get there.
Fill your boots on the AI bot or the 'your computer has been taken over by a virus' scammers, but those trying to do a survey or create a lead for an insulation co or whatever - just be a bit polite, say no thanks and let them move on. And definitely no need to be abusive to them, it's an 18 year old kid.
This is actually a short cool story
I would have agreed, but seeing the other side of the fence my opinion isn’t as harsh.
To be fair, there's two camps here.
In the red corner, we have legitimate businesses employing teenagers to follow up on sales leads. (Though something something GDPR something.)
In the blue corner, we have highly organised criminal gangs.
So you wasting his time when he actually isn’t doing anything illegal or scammy is TBH a bit shit, if that then is preventing him trying to earn a crust. A day full of folks doing that and he goes home depressed and out of pocket for the train fare to get there.
He is doing so unfortunately if he phones me. I am on TPS etc and have had all my details on the companies that organise cold calling lists ( experion and equifax) marked with not to be given out
So if he calls me he or someone up the chain has breached data protection, has breached TPS etc etc
sometimes I have even hunted down the company or organisation that has done the breach of date protection. I even had the NMC - the professional body for nurses censured for giving out my details to cold callers
sorry - I understand his desperation but I still have precisely zero sympathy as what he is doing is almost certainly illegal at least some of the time. Many of these so called "surveys" are actually to generate leads for cold calling sales. I have been woken from sleep when on night shift by them- I have to keep my phone switched on because of frail elderly parents
cougar - there is no legitimate business doing this that would get thru to me. anyone that phones cold calling me is breaking the law
He is doing so unfortunately if he phones me. I am on TPS etc and have had all my details on the companies that organise cold calling lists ( experion and equifax) marked with not to be given out
So if he calls me he or someone up the chain has breached data protection, has breached TPS etc etc
Not saying I agree or disagree, as you say in principle TPS takes you off cold calling lists but do something online and accidentally forget to tick or untick a box or whatever and you can end up on mailing lists again. And in any case, it's not his list, it's the firms. I know what you're saying - he rep's the firm and so is fair game to some extent. But then you can politely and quickly say so and move on.
But you said....
Depending on mood I either string them along to waste their time or just swear loudly at them to let them know what I think and put the phone down.
Ive kept one on the phone for 20+ mins before and also had them call me back thinking i was a lead but somehow we had lost connection.. My favourite ploy is to say ” that sounds interesting, hold on a mo” and put the phone down but not hang up.
and that might have cost him opportunities with others that are interested, and also just made an 18 year old lad trying to work his way through Uni feel pretty shit.
There is another, human, side to this, it's not all scammers.
I have precisely zero sympathy (for a kid trying to earn his way through Uni)
Nice.
and that might have cost him opportunities with others that are interested, and also just made an 18 year old lad trying to work his way through Uni feel pretty shit.
cost him opportunities to waste other people time and / or put vulnerable people at risk from scammers.
Its not just in principle I am not on these lists. If I appear on one someone has broken the law. My details are flagged on experian and equifax so that I cannot appear on lists legally. ( they produce most of the lists IIRC) If you wrongly tick a box then that company might phone you. You cannot be put on a general list from that legally
If I waste his time I am protecting others from his actions
If what he is doing is unethical at best and illegal at worst why should I have any sympathy?. I have huge sympathy for the position he is in. I have zero for his solution.
Bit like the Earlston Co-0p today, the staff are so scripted there today. I feel sorry for them, they must cringe inside today.
If I waste his time I am protecting others from his actions
No, you're preventing him from getting on with phoning someone who might be interested and potentially preventing him earning money that day.
Nah, I'm with TJ. These people must know what they're doing after the first handful of calls all tell them they've not had an accident/ppi/diesel and request they go procreate. That's also exploitation so there's that too.
In the red corner, we have legitimate businesses employing teenagers to follow up on sales leads. (Though something something GDPR something.)
In the blue corner, we have highly organised criminal gangs.
Wrong way round surely?
Cold calling relies on conning the vulnerable.
Yes I feel sorry for him but the answer is not to facilitatecompanies preying on the vulnerable, the answer is to earn money ethically and legally.
He is also being abused by his employers, commission only? He will have been conned into doing the "job" I bet with promises of huge commission.
Local care homes will be desperate for staff. Support staff as well as care staff and will often given zero hours contracts and fit in with uni time - and will give guaranteed earnings. I have employed loads of students on this basis in the past. thats one possibility.
Serve cups of tea, wash up and push a hoover around for above minimum wage
Cold calling relies on conning the vulnerable.
I'd have tended to agree, I don't now.
In what way do you think they are not?
Because in your mass generalisation you are assuming every cold call is a scam of some form or another. Which simply isn't true.
Example. There are subsidies available for insulating houses. Not everyone is aware of this or that they may be eligible. If a firm does some research and selects say a road of houses, built in the 50's and unlikely to have adequate loft insulation, and then calls those homeowners to advise them and ask if they are interested in a survey and possibly a quote. Sure, it's touting for business, and there is still an undercurrent based on past, unethical experiences of 'the hard sell' to follow but how is the 'cold call' conning the vulnerable?
Sure, it’s touting for business, and there is still an undercurrent based on past, unethical experiences of ‘the hard sell’ to follow but how is the ‘cold call’ conning the vulnerable?
The problem is that many people consider it a scam straight away so even if they are genuinely eligible for grants, most are simply going to hang up/abuse the salesperson.
Where I used to work had a schedule of calls for the Membership team to go through; phone recently lapsed members and give the whole "would you like to renew" spiel. The hit rate on renewals was under 1%. The hit rate in abuse was up in the mid teens. Eventually they stopped doing it, it was easier and cheaper to do mailshots by post and email.
Listening to them from across the office, it sounded utterly soul-destroying work, I felt quite sorry for them.
Numerous investigations have shown that companies cold calling selling insulation products are scammers. Yes in theory they do not have to be. In practice they are selling unsuitable or inadequate insulation at inflated costs. Poor example
I take your point in theory. But in practice it is not so
If they are a reputable company doing good work at fair prices they do not have to cold call
I also note that you missed my point that was about me. There is no legal way any cold caller can get my information to cold call me. so anyone cold calling me has broken the law. If you are on marketing list and the call is legal then you might have a point. But any cold call to me is in breach of the law.
The problem is that many people consider it a scam straight away so even if they are genuinely eligible for grants, most are simply going to hang up/abuse the salesperson.
Which is fine (the first bit at least). At best they really did avoid a scam, at worst they missed out on something that could have been of value to them. Their loss in that case, but can you lose something you didn't have?
The bit I took exception to, and still do, is the "depending on my mood I'll either string them along to waste their time or just swear loudly at them to let them know what I think and put the phone down"
There's a real human at the other end doing it to make ends meet, and probably dying a little bit inside every day while doing it. Just please think of that.
And the bit you missed is they have my number illegally. Why should I show respect for people breaking the law?
Also the other aspect - wasting their time stops folk from being scammed
Yes I feel a bit sorry for the individual but perhaps it will give them a nudge to get a job that is not unethical / illegal?
Yes the person doing the calling is perhaps also a victim of being scammed as the laddie you mention is. No reputable company is commission only for cold calling.
Numerous investigations have shown that companies cold calling selling insulation products are scammers. Yes in theory they do not have to be. In practice they are selling unsuitable or inadequate insulation at inflated costs. Poor example
All of them? I don't doubt there are some bad actors but claiming all cold callers are scammers preying on the vulnerable is clearly false.
There simply is no other reason to cold call. Legitimate companies do not do it. Legitimate companies do not con young folk into doing this for commission only
And you still have not addressed my point that they have my number illegally.
OK - agree to disagree on this. You feel sorry for a young lad who has rubbish circumstances and has been conned into working for a company that is at best unethical. I am frustrated by people calling me with information illegally obtained and with cold callers who are scammers
Because in your mass generalisation you are assuming every cold call is a scam of some form or another. Which simply isn’t true.
Correct. But it doesn't have to be a scam. If you're cold-calling TJ (or for that matter, me) then somewhere along the lines you're not playing by the rules because we've ticked every 'do not call' box on the planet.
You cannot process people's data under GDPR/DPA without Legitimate Interest, and "I want to sell you shit" is on shaky ground at best here.
OK, agree to disagree.
But FTR - I don't deny there are some bad actors but disagree that all are. I can't condone people with your number when you are on TPC lists, etc. I disagree that all cold calling is un-necessary or a scam, some is genuinely of use when done properly. And yes, having lived that life vicariously I do feel sorry for folks that need to do this to earn a crust, but more than that I'm annoyed by folks that are abusive or obstructive as their default.
If you’re cold-calling TJ (or for that matter, me) then somewhere along the lines you’re not playing by the rules because we’ve ticked every ‘do not call’ box on the planet.
Is it then OK to abuse the kid that called who was just given the list and told to get on with it?
Whether their boss, company (even the agency providing the staff) are complicit, it costs you nothing to not be a **** about it to the poor sod on the other end.
Can I invoke godwin?
Just following orders is not an excuse 🙂
Whether their boss, company (even the agency providing the staff) are complicit, it costs you nothing to not be a **** about it to the poor sod on the other end.
There's no way that the people making the calls do no know what they are doing is at best rude and unwanted, and likely know it's dodgy or illegal.
I've asked a few if thier mum and dad are proud of them working a scam line...
Most I just hang up and immediately report and block the call (Android).
I'm always up for humour but frankly my patience is pretty low right now for folks that treat shop workers, telemarketers, whatever, like dirt on their shoe. Daughter is working at the supermarket again over the summer, and has been so stressed again this week because of the behaviour of representatives of middle Britain.
What is wrong with people - what does being nice cost? In fact scrap being nice, it's clearly too hard. Let's focus on not being a ****. A basic premise for life that too many seem to be failing abjectly at right now.
[ right, I'm out before I start getting abusive. I doubt whether anyone has this as a career choice; don't judge until you've walked a mile in their shoes]
With you on the general premise. I am nice to folk in service industries. Bought my local shop cakes in covid. Always thank the bus driver, always praise good service. etc etc
I’m always up for humour but frankly my patience is pretty low right now for folks that treat shop workers, telemarketers, whatever
And there's a big difference between a UK based cold caller and a foreign based scam factory calling me about my Microsoft Account or recent Car Accident...
I'm very pleasant to folk, even when making a complaint.
But I really, really don't have time for scams and fraud - and will happily and nicely tell them what they are doing is a scam. No insults or swearing involved.
He’s working for an agency that pick up various jobs / surveys, all sorts, and a lot of what he does is not paid and all commission.
I'd be interesting to know a bit more about what the agency has him doing - i.e. who he is doing the telemarketing/cold calling for - i.e. what kinds of companies and is it information gathering, lapsed memberships, or direct sales. TPS registration not withstanding I just struggle to think of a scenario where cold calling would have a positive impact on me. Which of course makes you think....well if it's not aimed at me, who is it aimed at? And that rarely makes you think of them in a positive light.
I've done some pretty iffy jobs over the years, especially in my yoof. But I've always been lucky enough to be in a position to have a morality threshold. Not 100% sure cold calling for people selling crap would cut it, especially if other work was available, even if not as convenient. I did sell clothes in C&A mind so my standards are pretty low.
Just thinking about it, I think as we enter an age where my phone rings very little and normally only for urgent things or very close friends and family, cold calls feel even more intrusive than they used to. Which is odd as you can't open social media without being bombarded. Something far more personal about someone ringing your specific number somehow.
Also - and I'm sure he knows this already, 100% commission based salaries are illegal unless the employer guarantees the commission will amount to at least minimum wage. So an hour listening to TJ waffle on should still get him minimum wage if they are legal with their wages - though thinking about it an hour on the phone with TJ should come with danger money!
I disagree that all cold calling is un-necessary or a scam,
If I've said "do not call me," and you call me, you're in the wrong. And likely breaking the law.
Is it then OK to abuse the kid that called who was just given the list and told to get on with it?
Here we agree. No, of course not. I've worked in support, it's not my fault your computer is broken.
But, it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect them to be able to tell you how they got your details, and have them removed. This is literally GDPR, "I do not want you to be processing my data."
Is it OK to give a probably not even minimum wage student both barrels, of course not. But they should be in a position where either they can amend your records to "do not call" or they can put you through to someone who can.
The company may well believe that they're operating morally. And I've had these conversations more than once. But they aren't, and it's on them to perform due diligence on whatever contact list they've bought.
They have been rude to me by cold calling me. Why should I be polite in return?
Point the laddie in the direction of local care homes. One of them will give him a legitimate job that will fit round his uni I will bet.
As convert says - if its commission only then the company is clearly not legit.
its a painful life lesson for him. don't get involved with scammers
