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I just got some over-the-counter codeine tablets and apparently I will be an addict if I take them for more than three days. So how does that work then? I know they are an opiate but what do they specifically do that makes them addictive? Is it simply that I would need to take more and more to get rid of the pain and going off them would mean the pain comes back worse or are they meant to have a mood effect?
Just curious...
Over the counter isn't a high enough dose to get you properly addicted IMHO. A much bigger problem is that you probably won't be taking a dump for the next few days...
Yea my co-codamol says the same on front of the box.
A much bigger problem is that you probably won't be taking a dump for the next few days...
No problems in that department thanks 🙂
As flaperon says, the cocodamol I was given by the hospital after my collarbone op were very addictive, infact it was only when my wife pointed it out did I realise I'd become almost dependent and a bit moody, whether I was in pain or not. I'd recommend taking them with prune juice or senokot.
A much bigger problem is that you probably won't be taking a dump for the next few days...
A mouthful of fish oil twice daily will sort you out 😀
Fibre gel and lactulose is your friend. A fortnight on them things almost 2 years ago and I'm still seeing a consultant every three months for a fingering.
If you could get addicted by OTC meds, everyone would be on them...
Is it time to resurect the picolax thread?
Dihydrocodeine is nice though, was prescribed it for my back by an A&E doctor. I was wondering why I couldn't remember driving to work and things until my GP realised that I had been given the strongest dose and was taking two, four times a day instead of just one 😀
Quite addictive though...
There's a risk but it doesn't mean you will.
If you could get addicted by OTC meds, everyone would be on them...
You can though but that doesn't mean everyone will, just the same as not everyone is an alcoholic.
Is it time to resurect the picolax thread?
No.
As for it bunging you up, yeah it can but again not everyone.
But what I want to know is - what [b]effects[/b] do they give the user that makes them addictive.
It's the light-headed woozy feeling of one-ness with the settee and TV remote that nearly did for me. I could have quite happily munched my way through the whole packet before I took stock and decided it might not be the wisest move.
Co-codamol is making me go through the eye of a needle.
The codeine binds to the opioid receptors in the brain blocking pain signalling. The brain makes more receptors to compensate for the block meaning that you have to take more for the same effect over time. Withdrawing the drug produces unpleasant side effects due to the excess of receptors. Codeine is chemically related to diamorphine (heroin) but is significantly less potent.
what effects do they give the user that makes them addictive.
It's not the effects that make them addictive as such but I know what you mean.
A higher pain threshold
Euphoria
Lower resps, HR and a general chill out feeling.
Cheers - that's what I wanted to know.
(Not getting any of that from these (which is, I assume, simply because they are just OTC strength).
Do some people not get affected my codeine then? I took some when I had tooth ache a while back and it was next to useless. People were telling me I should watch out and only take it once I was lying down so I took some, repeatedly and it didn't do anything to block the pain andf offered no side effects whatsoever, I was most disappointed.
Ibuprofen works mind.
I'm the same at the dentist. I don't know what stuff they use nowadays but it's crap. The dentist doesn't believe me obviously and just carryies on hammering away.
Kuco - Member
Yea my co-codamol says the same on front of the box.
I had a fortnight's worth of those when I launched myself into a ditch and ruined my arm last spring. I was struggling to sleep such was the need to shit, proper wiped me out as well, felt like my limbs weren't attached to my body.
It effects different people in different ways like all drugs, my wife can't even take a small dose without being ill sometimes for a couple of days. My Dad is not effected at all by it just doesn't touch him. I take dihydrocodine now and the for recurring kidney stones, it gives me a nice buzz and gets ride of the pain.
Ibuprofen on the other hand has only a small effect but luckily I also have dicolfenic for kidney stones problems on a good dose which helps.
@samuri Codeine is activated to morphine (the active drug) by metabolism. Approximately 8% of Caucasians lack the enzyme (CYP2D6) and don't get any pain relief. You should tell your dentist about this.
But what I want to know is - what effects do they give the user that makes them addictive.
It's not often the effects of the drug that cause a need to take more of a drug.
Your body produces a certain amount of natural painkiller continously. When you take codeine (which is converted to morphine in your body), your body stops producing its own natural painkiller since it is being supplied with opiates instead.
These nerves cells degenerate and you are left physically addicted to the opiate.
When you remove the supply of opiates, your body begins a mainly physical trauma (opiate withdrawl), which can be pretty brutal.
It's not really the euphoric effects that cause addiction (especially in OTC drugs), although they can contribute to the level of physical addition due to you taking increasing doses to keep up with a growing tolerance.
CYP2D6
Is that C3PO and R2D2's love child?
It's not really the euphoric effects that cause addiction (especially in OTC drugs), although they can contribute to the level of physical addition due to you taking increasing doses to keep up with a growing tolerance.
MF was meaning what is it people take them for that leads to the addiction?
Well seeing as it is tendonitis I am best sticking to the ibuprofen then I guess (as an anti-inflammatory).
Just had a read about that, thanks, I'll bring it up next time I go.
Oh never thought I would see the day when Cytochorme P450's would be a hot topic on STW. I did my PhD on these by the way.
unlikely that you would get addicted to co-codamol unless you get the higher dosage prescription variety 30-500.
Stay away from pure codine though it is far too moreish!
I think GPs can be bit too generous with the 30mg codiene / 500mg para' combo.
I was suffering from severe pain due to calcifications in my rotator cuff (since removed by barbotage) and my doc gave me 100 Zapain! Enough to drop an elephant and surely enough to become addicted.
No problems in that department thanks
I've taken neurofen plus for a couple of sessions for tooth pain before I could get the problem fixed. First time I took it for about 3-4 days - fixed the pain, didn't have any other symptoms at all as you describe, but I became blocked up solid after a couple of days which was extremely unpleasant. One of codeine's effects apparently (as I read) is to suppress the movement of the bowel walls so it all just sits in there.
Second time I only took them for maybe 36 hours and it only took one pill to block me up again 🙁
MF was meaning what is it people take them for that leads to the addiction?
there are two separate (but often interlinked) types of addiction:
psychological - dependency caused by a desire to repeat the effects of the drug (which isn't that common with OTC drugs due to the low level of opiates)
physical - as I set out, your body stops producing its own painkiller when it has a continous supply of opiates, leading to physical addiction. With OTC drugs, given they are limited to 12.8mg of codeine per tablet, if you stick to the advised dose, you're unlikely to encounter much in the way of withdrawl symptoms when you stop. However, if you increase the dose and take it for a few months, you are obviously more likely to have a couple of rough weeks (although, I don't imagine it's particularly bad at all, in the past i've stopped Oxycodone after 3 months with fairly short tapering and only felt "bad", and Oxy is exponentially more potent than OTC codeine).
The best advice anyone could ever give you in respect of opiate pain killers is if you don't need to take them, don't.
It will keep you tolerance low, which means you get the best effects when you DO need them, and will avoid becoming physically or psychologically dependent. Easier said than done though when you are in pain and there's a miracle cure in your bathroom cabinet 😆
Cheers Peter - I have only taken about eight tablets (two at a time) over three days and none today so I think I will leave it at that and concentrate on the anti-inflammatories.
My wrist is murdering me though - barely able to get my kids dressed or brush my teeth 🙁 Hopefully the swelling will go down soon.
I'm on co-codamol now, post-thumb surgery. I'm actually leaving it longer between doses each day as the pain subsides, mostly just to ration them. It's lovely stuff. Pain goes away, and I get this great feeling of just not caring at all. It might even be making me more productive while working from home as my usual, paralysing brain clutter seems to have disappeared.
The codeine binds to the opioid receptors in the brain blocking pain signalling. The brain makes more receptors to compensate for the block meaning that you have to take more for the same effect over time. Withdrawing the drug produces unpleasant side effects due to the excess of receptors
Explained in easy to understand logic, thanks for that.
Dihydrocodeine is absolutely fantastic stuff and having taken it I can really see how people get addicted to opiates. Almost worth breaking bones for. Must....get....some.....more.....
Dihydrocodeine is absolutely fantastic stuff and having taken it I can really see how people get addicted to opiates. Almost worth breaking bones for. Must....get....some.....more.....
It's roughly twice as potent as codeine on a mg v mg basis. Not a huge amount of difference between the two in terms of effects though. However, if you usually get prescribed 30mg codeine by the dr, and then you get 30mg DHC then it will obviously feel much stronger 😉
I had my first taste of morphine last week. That is niiiiice.
Approximately 8% of Caucasians lack the enzyme (CYP2D6) and don't get any pain relief.
And of course there are the extensive metabolizers (approx 2%) who over-produce morphine on first pass through the liver. My wife will drop on 5 mg of codeine, so if you seem to be VERY sensitive to the effects, you too may have several copies of the CYP2D6*2 allele.
Codeine is a banned substance in the US, and in the UK it is only OTC in combination with paracetamol; for the simple reason that the dose of paracetamol required to IRREVERSIBLY kill your liver is lower than the dose of codeine required to suppress respiratory function. Neither are nice drugs, but both have their uses.
I agree with the point that doctors tend to be a little too keen on 30/500 combination.
OTC Cocodamol is one of the few reliable migraine cures I've used. Used to take it with me when I travelled for work too, until someone pointed out that codeine wasn't as well tolerated around the globe as it is here, I'd never even considered it.
I think it was Pethadine (sic?) that got jabbed in my butt for kidney stones, leaving me with blissed out sleep and a hard knot in my left buttock muscle I can still feel in cold weather!