Looks like we're going for option 1: conveniently ignore it. 😀
I'm sorry yunki but if you reckon an article from a peer reviewed journal about the museum of food failure is tosh then I don't know what evidence will convince you.
A few pages back Yunki described the marketing and branding industry as unscientific, so I'm not surprised that he's just brushing your studies aside. He's made up his mind... 🙄
If you hang on a bit longer i can look up some public health studies on the effect of cigarette branding and marketing if you want?
Well, I'm reading your posts colonel wax, but the man who was calling for evidence has been strangely quiet since we started posting abstracts and excerpts from papers... Have to hope he's taking his time reading them all and thinking up a reasoned counter argument...
If you hang on a bit longer i can look up some public health studies on the effect of cigarette branding and marketing if you want?
I'd quite like to read that, colonel wax.
It reminded me of [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13986740 ]this:[/url]
Australia already has some of the toughest anti-smoking measures in the world, with grotesque pictures of cancer tumours and gangrenous limbs printed on every packet, and cigarettes hidden in cabinets out of sight of consumers in shops.But the plain packaging legislation would arm the Australian authorities with the toughest anti-smoking measures in the world.
Needless to say, Big Tobacco is determined to prevent the measures from taking effect, fearing the consequences in other, more lucrative, markets around the world. Britain, Canada and New Zealand are considering similarly stringent laws.
Tobacco companies could also be hit especially hard in emerging markets - where branding is a vital marketing tool in luring smokers from cheap cigarettes to more expensive ones - if governments there followed Australia's lead.
Big tobacco fighting for their right to save branded packaging. Despite manufacturing a product that is actually addictive, they're still desperate to cling on to their packaging, knowing that losing their brand image entirely will damage their profits.
Thanks for bringing that up, CW.
Personally, since the very beginning I've not really thought much further evidence was actually needed beyond the eyes in the front of our faces being pointed in the general direction of pretty much everything and anything we've ever known.
But if that was insufficient, as it appears it was, then you've certainly given the thread what it needs. Either that, or minds have been made up and facts won't be allowed to confuse anything.
Still, I'm sure you somehow fail to understand. Quite what, I don't know. But you no doubt, inexplicably, fail to understand.
Well, I'm reading your posts colonel wax, but the man who was calling for evidence has been strangely quiet since we started posting abstracts and excerpts from papers... Have to hope he's taking his time reading them all and thinking up a reasoned counter argument...
sorry - drinking bubbly and celebrating.
I will have a look at 'em at some point tho
Cool, I'm on me phone on the train but I'll have a look later.
TJ - have to say that sounds better than reading STW!
BTW tj I'm not having a go at you, just there does seem to be quite a bit of evidence. I pulled that lot from healthcare databases so you should know its from ok sources.
Obviously the egg stuff was a laugh but smoking stuffs interesting.
sorry - drinking bubbly
pfft, another champagne socialist.
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I think you may be missing the joke yunki.
probably.. but if you think for one minute that I'm
a). reading all that or
b). still taking this seriously
then you are very much mistaken.. 😐
Good ride today TM..?
Blimey - still going. Well I am sat at the 24/12 being slowly drawn in to buying some Bontrager gear...
Can't think why.
I just heard a bloke in the catering tent shout "can I get an egg, please"! Made me laugh - must be sucked in by Jamie's subliminal messages!
colonel wax.. your examples are tosh
I thought they were quite lyrical
Good ride today TM..?
great up until i broke the rocker on the hemlock 😥
I think the few posts over the garmin logo blue triangle has summed it up completely.
MF uses this as an example of a good logo with some good symbology. I say that the blue triangle is meaningless - he says its a north arrow and posts loads of pictures of north arrows none of which are a blue triangle on top of a N.
Graham has to admit that he did not see this as a north arrow.
I make the point that its only a north arrow if you know garmin is a navigation tool - so it only has meaning in context.
Indeed more than that - you only know its a north arrow if you know its a garmin and you are looking for significance.
So this very clever bit of graphics / logo work actually has been shown to add nothing to the basic word. The only people who know what it is are those who already know what a garmin is and are the sort of people who look for these things.
ie all that fancy work marketting branding stuff has been completely wasted - and this is one used as an example of a good piece.
You really are blind to symbology and association of a logo/logotype with a particular product. Sure, if you have no idea what Garmin make then the triangle over the N is meaningless, as is the name Garmin. If, however, a prospective customer who decides that a quality GPS receiver is required for whatever reason then starts doing research via outdoor magazines then he/she will quickly become aware of the existence of Garmin and Magellan via their adverts. Those adverts will stand out from lesser brands for various reasons, basically because of better type layout and font choice, making the ads clearer and easier to assimilate information. They may well also suddenly twig the name Garmin is familiar through hearing it continually referred to during the TV coverage of the Tour De France, and recognise the same logo from the team strip. Automatically there is a product and brand awareness that associates the logo with the product that indicates it's a quality product that's worth checking further. That logo is permanently fixed as representing satellite navigation without needing to know that the triangle over the N is referring to the North arrow on a map, but often people will suddenly twig and think, 'oh, damn, of course, that's clever' and wonder why they hadn't noticed it before. It's not 'winky', as you so childishly put it, it's a graphic element that adds to the symbology, which allows it to become a form of visual shorthand cutting out the need for scads of copy to promote a product. This is a human need, to use symbols to represent a more complicated concept in a simple and concise fashion, something the Japanese are particularly aware of, as their pictographic alphabet is incredibly complicated, so they used clear symbols as heraldic devices to show familial associations, which are basically logos. They have also adopted western roman text, or 'romanji' as it's clearer to read at a distance. They instinctively understand the use of symbols to convey larger concepts that can be understood at a glance.
A facility that seems to be totally lacking in your genetic makeup, TJ. Trying to explain it to you is fundamentally a waste of time, as you obviously lack the ability to understand. Like teaching a pig to dance; it wastes your time and pi55es off the pig.
I would suggest that many posting here read William Gibson's trilogy [i]Pattern Recognition, Spook Country, [/i] and [i]Zero History[/i] as these books are entirely about marketing and it's uses and forms, like viral advertising, and are also noir-ish as well, and are totally brilliant.
I must admit, when I last looked, this thread was at ten pages, and having two evenings out for a gig and my birthday I'm astonished to find it at forty pages and still going!
I would suggest that many posting here read William Gibson's trilogy Pattern Recognition, Spook Country, and Zero History as these books are entirely about marketing and it's uses and forms, like viral advertising, and are also noir-ish as well, and are totally brilliant.
*Toddles off to Amazon with intrigue*
William Gibson's trilogy
read most of 'em
Pattern recognition is very good.
Bit of marketing and how change of words/lettering can affect thinking.
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Yes I know it's an advert but how many of you would use the Company?
I'm not sure if I like that Woody. The first sign asked for help, the second sign invited pity.
Might have left him better off, but the guy might not have liked the message.
But then beggars can't be choosers.
Especially blind beggars with a piece of cardboard, not knowing which side is which or what one of the sides says.
She does work for free, though...
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Y'know, I had never noticed the 'hidden' bit in this logo before... 😀
Awful typography on it though. Really dreadful.
Jesus mary and the orphans this is STILL rumbling on?!
but have you thought about the inherent meaning of the "jesus mary and the orphans". That is a picture we all have in our minds. I know I have. (rubs thighs)...
Sorry, but did anyone ever clear up the issue over NHS branding for TJ back on page 1 / 2? Only the NHS didn't used to have a single brand, and that was the problem, hence one was introduced 'bout 10 yrs ago. The NHS Executive started to realise that the NHS identity was becoming diluted as the new fangled 'Trusts' of the late '90s started to brand themselves and acquire new logo's. The public identity of the service, albeit made up of multiple independent components, was being lost.
So they imposed the current logo & typeface standards for all NHS organisations in England (but probably not in Scotland, obviously!)
Personally I think it was a mighty fine change, but then I supported targets 🙂
I don't tend to think too hard about anything on here. Maybe thats where I'm going wrong?!
I've got an idea in my head of a five barbed hook grabbing this thread by the flabby mouth and it being pulled "out of the water". Can you visualise that idea for me please in a 150mm x 220mm white space by monday please. I need a rough by tomorrow 10am, we'll let the art editor and editor see it first then get back to you on any changes we need to make to your ideas to make them fit with our demographic/audience.
Children and youth perceive smoking messages in an unbranded advertisement from a NIKE marketing campaign: A cluster randomised controlled trial
Author(s): Auger N., Daniel M., Knauper B., Raynault M., Pless B.
Citation: BMC Pediatrics, April 2011, vol./is. 11/, 1471-2431 (08 Apr 2011)
Publication Date: April 2011
Abstract: Background: How youth perceive marketing messages in sports is poorly understood. We evaluated whether youth perceive that the imagery of a specific sports marketing advertisement contained smoking-related messages.Methods: Twenty grade 7 to 11 classes (397 students) from two high schools in Montreal, Canada were recruited to participate in a cluster randomised single-blind controlled trial. Classes were randomly allocated to either a NIKE advertisement containing the phrase 'LIGHT IT UP' (n = 205) or to a neutral advertisement with smoking imagery reduced and the phrase replaced by 'GO FOR IT' (n = 192). The NIKE logo was removed from both advertisements. Students responded in class to a questionnaire asking open-ended questions about their perception of the messages in the ad. Reports relating to the appearance and text of the ad, and the product being promoted were evaluated.Results: Relative to the neutral ad, more students reported that the phrase 'LIGHT IT UP' was smoking-related (37.6% vs. 0.5%) and that other parts of the ad resembled smoking-related products (50.7% vs. 10.4%). The relative risk of students reporting that the NIKE ad promoted cigarettes was 4.41 (95% confidence interval: 2.64-7.36; P < 0.001).Conclusions: The unbranded imagery of an advertisement in a specific campaign aimed at promoting NIKE hockey products appears to have contained smoking-related messages. This particular marketing campaign may have promoted smoking. This suggests that the regulation of marketing to youth may need to be more tightly controlled. 2011 Auger et a
Perceptions of tobacco advertising and marketing that might lead to smoking initiation among Chinese high school girls.
Author(s): Ho, Michael G, Shi, Yu, Ma, Shaojun, Novotny, Thomas E
Citation: Tobacco Control: An International Journal, October 2007, vol./is. 16/5(359-360), 0964-4563 (Oct 2007)
Publication Date: October 2007
Abstract: Presented here is a pilot study on susceptibility among young women in Beijing. Five focus groups of high school girls aged 16-19 years (n=27) was assembled during summer 2006. Thirteen subjects reported smoking experience (smoked 100 lifetime cigarettes or smoked in past 30 days). In-depth questions identified themes such as knowledge of brand identities, influences and information about smoking among women. Explicit cigarette advertisements are banned by law, but subjects noted the appearance of cigarette brand logos on television. They also were aware that transnational tobacco companies (TTCs) manufacture most female brand cigarettes. Many subjects were aware that cigarettes were advertised at sporting events. Many subjects' favourite actors and singers are smokers, and they reported that they believe these celebrities are more glamorous and elegant when they smoke. The study suggests that concepts of femininity, independence, style and sophistication are recognised by young women in China as part of the already embedded smoking culture.
Declines in tobacco brand recognition and ever-smoking rates among young children following restrictions on tobacco advertisements in Hong Kong
Author(s): Fielding R., Chee Y.Y., Choi K.M., Chu T.K., Kato K., Lam S.K., Sin K.L., Tang K.T., Wong H.M., Wong K.M.
Citation: Journal of Public Health, March 2004, vol./is. 26/1(24-30), 1741-3842 (Mar 2004)
Publication Date: March 2004
Abstract: Background: We compared the recognition of tobacco brands and ever-smoking rates in young children before (1991) and after (2001) the implementation of cigarette advertising restrictions in Hong Kong and identified continuing sources of tobacco promotion exposure. Methods: A cross-sectional survey of 824 primary school children aged from 8 to 11 (Primary classes 3-4) living in two Hong Kong districts was carried out using self-completed questionnaires examining smoking behaviour and recognition of names and logos from 18 tobacco, food, drink and other brands common in Hong Kong. Results: Ever-smoking prevalence in 2001 was 3.8 per cent (1991, 7.8 per cent). Tobacco brand recognition rates ranged from 5.3 per cent (Viceroy name) to 72.8 per cent (Viceroy logo). Compared with 1991, in 2001 never-smoker children recognized fewer tobacco brand names and logos: Marlboro logo recognition rate fell by 55.3 per cent. Similar declines were also seen in ever-smoker children, with recognition of the Marlboro logo decreasing 48 per cent. Recognition rates declined amongst both boys and girls. Children from non-smoking families constituted 51 per cent (426) of the sample, whereas 34.5 per cent (284), 8.5 per cent (70), 1.7 per cent (14) and 4.4 per cent (36) of the children had one, two, three or more than three smoking family members at home, respectively. Tobacco brand recognition rates and ever-smoking prevalence were significantly higher among children with smoking family members compared with those without. Among 12 possible sources of exposure to cigarette brand names and logos, retail stalls (75.5 per cent; 622), indirect advertisements (71.5 per cent; 589) and magazines (65.3 per cent; 538) were ranked the most common. Conclusion: Advertising restrictions in Hong Kong have effectively decreased primary-age children's recognition of tobacco branding. However, these children remain vulnerable to branding, mostly through exposure from family smokers, point-of-sale tobacco advertisement and occasional promotions. Action to curb these is now required.
Cigarette package design: opportunities for disease prevention.
Author(s): Difranza JR, Clark DM, Pollay RW
Citation: Tobacco Induced Diseases, 2002, vol./is. 1/2(97-109), 1617-9625;1617-9625 (2002)
Publication Date: 2002
Abstract: ABSTRACT : OBJECTIVE : To learn how cigarette packages are designed and to determine to what extent cigarette packages are designed to target children. METHODS : A computer search was made of all Internet websites that post tobacco industry documents using the search terms: packaging, package design, package study, box design, logo, trademark and design study. All documents were retrieved electronically and analyzed by the first author for recurrent themes. DATA SYNTHESIS : Cigarette manufacturers devote a great deal of attention and expense to package design because it is central to their efforts to create brand images. Colors, graphic elements, proportioning, texture, materials and typography are tested and used in various combinations to create the desired product and user images. Designs help to create the perceived product attributes and project a personality image of the user with the intent of fulfilling the psychological needs of the targeted type of smoker. The communication of these images and attributes is conducted through conscious and subliminal processes. Extensive testing is conducted using a variety of qualitative and quantitative research techniques. CONCLUSION : The promotion of tobacco products through appealing imagery cannot be stopped without regulating the package design. The same marketing research techniques used by the tobacco companies can be used to design generic packaging and more effective warning labels targeted at specific consumers.
Effects of dissuasive packaging on young adult smokers.
Author(s): Hoek J, Wong C, Gendall P, Louviere J, Cong K
Citation: Tobacco Control, May 2011, vol./is. 20/3(183-8), 0964-4563;1468-3318 (2011 May)
Publication Date: May 2011
Abstract: BACKGROUND: Tobacco industry documents illustrate how packaging promotes smoking experimentation and reinforces existing smokers' behaviour. Plain packaging reduces the perceived attractiveness of smoking and creates an opportunity to introduce larger pictorial warnings that could promote cessation-linked behaviours. However, little is known about the effects such a combined policy measure would have on smokers' behaviour.METHODS: A 3 (warning size) *4 (branding level) plus control (completely plain pack) best-worst experiment was conducted via face-to-face interviews with 292 young adult smokers from a New Zealand provincial city. The Juster Scale was also used to estimate cessation-linked behaviours among participants.RESULTS: Of the 13 options tested, respondents were significantly less likely to choose those featuring fewer branding elements or larger health warnings. Options that featured more branding elements were still preferred even when they also featured a 50% health warning, but were significantly less likely to be chosen when they featured a 75% warning. Comparison of a control pack representing the status quo (branded with 30% front of pack warning) and a plain pack (with a 75% warning) revealed the latter would be significantly more likely to elicit cessation-related behaviours.CONCLUSIONS: Plain packs that feature large graphic health warnings are significantly more likely to promote cessation among young adult smokers than fully or partially branded packs. The findings support the introduction of plain packaging and suggest use of unbranded package space to feature larger health warnings would further promote cessation.
How does increasingly plainer cigarette packaging influence adult smokers' perceptions about brand image? An experimental study.
Author(s): Wakefield, M. A, Germain, D, Durkin, S. J
Citation: Tobacco Control: An International Journal, December 2008, vol./is. 17/6(416-421), 0964-4563 (Dec 2008)
Publication Date: December 2008
Abstract: Background: Cigarette packaging is a key marketing strategy for promoting brand image. Plain packaging has been proposed to limit brand image, but tobacco companies would resist removal of branding design elements. Method: A 3 (brand types) x4 (degree of plain packaging) between-subject experimental design was used, using an internet online method, to expose 813 adult Australian smokers to one randomly selected cigarette pack, after which respondents completed ratings of the pack. Results: Compared with current cigarette packs with full branding, cigarette packs that displayed progressively fewer branding design elements were perceived increasingly unfavourably in terms of smokers' appraisals of the packs, the smokers who might smoke such packs, and the inferred experience of smoking a cigarette from these packs. For example, cardboard brown packs with the number of enclosed cigarettes displayed on the front of the pack and featuring only the brand name in small standard font at the bottom of the pack face were rated as significantly less attractive and popular than original branded packs. Smokers of these plain packs were rated as significantly less trendy/stylish, less sociable/outgoing and less mature than smokers of the original pack. Compared with original packs, smokers inferred that cigarettes from these plain packs would be less rich in tobacco, less satisfying and of lower quality tobacco. Conclusion: Plain packaging policies that remove most brand design elements are likely to be most successful in removing cigarette brand image associations.
The influence of branding on adolescent smoking behaviour: Exploring the mediating role of image and attitudes.
Author(s): Grant, Ian C, Hassan, Louise M, Hastings, Gerard B, MacKintosh, Anne Marie, Eadie, Douglas
Citation: International Journal of Nonprofit and Voluntary Sector Marketing, August 2008, vol./is. 13/3(275-285), 1465-4520 (Aug 2008)
Publication Date: August 2008
Abstract: 1. This study investigates the continuing effects of tobacco marketing communications in a post advertising era, focusing on the constructs of brand awareness, brand image, attitude formation and intention to smoke by adolescents. 2. A conceptual model is presented, based on 926 respondents from a UK wide study, to assess brand-related interrelationships and influences of peers on adolescents' attitudes toward smoking and intention to smoke. 3. Results show the strong influence of branding on both attitude and intention, and have implications for government anti-smoking policies specifically in regard to generic packaging and point of sale displays.
A difference that makes a difference: Young adult smokers' accounts of cigarette brands and package design
Author(s): Scheffels J.
Citation: Tobacco Control, April 2008, vol./is. 17/2(118-122), 0964-4563 (April 2008)
Publication Date: April 2008
Abstract: Objective: To explore young adult smokers' construction of meaning and identity In accounts of cigarette brands and cigarette package design, and the processes by which positive associations with a brand may be reinforced and sustained. Methods: Qualitative in-depth interviews with 21 smokers aged 18-23 in Norway, where advertising for tobacco has been banned since 1975. Results: Cigarette brand and cigarette package design appear as an integrated part of young smokers' constructions of smoker identities, enabling the communication of personal characteristics, social identity and positions in hierarchies of status. Conclusion: Through branding and package design tobacco companies appear to be able to promote their products in a country where advertising is banned, by means of similar principles that make advertising effective: by creating preferences, differentiation and identification.
Branding: could it hold the key to future tobacco reduction policy
Author(s): Eadie, Douglas, Hastings, Gerard, Stead, Martine, MacKintosh, Anne Marie
Citation: Health Education, 1999, vol./is. /3, 0965-4283
Publication Date: 1999
Abstract: The debate surrounding tobacco control has become increasingly polarised as the health and tobacco lobbies seek to influence tobacco policy. In recent times the main focus for debate has been the impact of tobacco advertising on under-age smoking. However, with the proposed ban on tobacco advertising, this paper argues that branding may prove pivotal to re-orienting thinking about how tobacco marketing continues to influence smoking initiation. Marketing theory asserts that creating demand for a product is dependent upon building a strong brand identity that concurs with the needs, values and lifestyles of the consumer. It is hypothesised that branding can function by affecting not only the way people perceive specific tobacco products but also their perceptions of smoking behaviour itself. Using branding to extend the debate in this way provides some useful insights into the role tobacco marketing might play in encouraging young people to start smoking. It is concluded that explanations for smoking initiation can be found, not by attempting to isolate the abilities of tobacco marketing and health policy to persuade young people to adopt one behaviour in favour of the other, but by examining how exposure to competing forces such as these during adolescence may conspire to brand smoking in a way that encourages young people to experiment with cigarettes. It is suggested that more significant advances in reducing smoking rates are likely to depend upon a willingness to confront the fundamental contradictions that are created by such competing forces.
😯
Good stuff Colonel!
This seems to validate a few points made waaaay back in this thread.cardboard brown packs with the number of enclosed cigarettes displayed on the front of the pack and featuring only the brand name in small standard font at the bottom of the pack face were rated as significantly less attractive and popular than original branded packs. Smokers of these plain packs were rated as significantly less trendy/stylish, less sociable/outgoing and less mature than smokers of the original pack. Compared with original packs, smokers inferred that cigarettes from these plain packs would be less rich in tobacco, less satisfying and of lower quality tobacco.
Anyone got a light?
Well, thank God thats ova.
colonel wax - your evidence is flimsy at best..
Well that's a well thought out and reasoned dismissal there. 🙄yunki - Member
colonel wax - your evidence is flimsy at best..
hmm.. well thought out and reasoned are not two attributes that I would associate with the thought processes of anyone making the decision to involve themselves in this tedious quagmire.. but you carry right on ahead with your optimistic outlook while I try and find a suitable song to sum up the thread so far..
