Jeebus I didn't do any kerning! Way too much faff on my lunch break.
You only need kerning if you do doing a logo for TandemJerome
From M-F's original TandemJeremy selection:
1 - TJ owns a yacht and ponces around the marina a lot with a jumper hung over his shoulders
2 - TJ is a computer repair man
3 - TJ is a builder or sells rugged clothing to the construction industry
4 - TJ has a photograpy website & does 'bespoke artwork'
5 - TJ is a kid's entertainer or author of children's books.
Quite amazing actually what those different fonts convey!
Can some one just post 'Jeremy' in Tandem font?
1 - TJ owns a yacht and ponces around the marina a lot with a jumper hung over his shoulders2 - TJ is a computer repair man
3 - TJ is a builder or sells rugged clothing to the construction industry
4 - TJ has a photograpy website & does 'bespoke artwork'
5 - TJ is a kid's entertainer or author of children's books.
Quite amazing actually what those different fonts convey!
No, no they don't they all say the same thing, only some more clearly than others.
-SheldonJeremy
Stumpy - only if you understand the "language" which most folk who do not work in that world do not.
charlie - indeed - all they are to me is my name - some more clearly than others.
TJ, they don't spend money on this stuff for the hell of it. It's been proven to have an effect. Perhaps not on you, perhaps you're better than us all, but it DOES have an effect.
Really? Proof? lets see some.
its grossly overstated IMO
[b]B[/b]ut, I ass[b]u[/b]med advertising working is just one of those things that is generall[b]y[/b] accepted as true. Like the[b] E[/b]arth [b]g[/b]oin[b]g[/b] round the [b]S[/b]un etc.
lol ...now I really fancy an omelette ...
I fancy an ommelette
Edit: ill have em scrambled next time, it'll be quicker
I don't need any?
TandemJeremy - Member
Stumpy - only if you understand the "language" which most folk who do not work in that world do not.
I do not work in 'that world' but I can see how using a certain font & logo can lend a company or a person a certain 'air', whether that is professional, funny, caring etc.
For example, I have had nothing to do with despatch/haulage/freight but 2 professional haulage companies that I would immediately consider using due to my perception of them (via their branding) are Eddie Stobart & Kuehne & Nagel....
Now, you could argue that Eddie Stobart is the obvious one, as it is so prominent in the UK, but I don't see Kuehne & Nagel lorries very often. But, when i do see them they are always clean & the branding/name seems professional to me.
I don't know why and I don't know why it has stuck in my head over many other haulage company names/logos that I have seen over the years.
Also - every year the local Rotary club does a competition thing, which is some kind of quiz. This year it is logo's and there are getting on for 100 logos on some paper. You have to say what company they represent. I managed to get probably 85% of them straight away, so I recognise/remember the name of a company through it's logo.
stumpy - but if the logo was simply the name of the company then you would know 100% of the names. So having fancy logos reduces recognition
stumpy - but if the logo was simply the name of the company then you would know 100% of the names.
And what they do?
And whether they are good or bad?
And if it's something you want to buy into?
I love this Japanese transport company logo:
Yamato Transport Co
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I don't need any?
Need any what?
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I like that jalopy, inmage worth a thousand words...
...this always descends into a debate...back to inappropriate logos;
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charlie - indeed - all they are to me is my name - some more clearly than others.
That's quite interesting. Have you always been unable to interpret non-verbal signals?
tyredbiker
Brilliant
I'd love to see Times Square, Picadilly Circus, Football matches, Newspapers, Magazines etc, if everyone did branding the TJ way.
oooh, can someone do a photoshop to demonstrate the problem with this vision?
Stumpy - only if you understand the "language" which most folk who do not work in that world do not.
So are you really not able to tell the visual difference between, say, a comic typeface and an Olde English typeface or a digital typeface?
So are you really not able to tell the visual difference between, say, a comic typeface and an Olde English typeface or a digital typeface?
To be fair we can only associate the typefaces with previous, known images and ideas and without the association they mean nothing.
I can tell the difference - but that difference carries no meaning. The only thing that matters to me in this context is the clarity.
As I say - Its like the language of the handkerchief in the pocket to tell sexual preference. I can see the hanky in the pocket. I might even realise it is supposed to convey some meaning but I have no idea what that meaning is.
In the case of the logos and the font - the meaning of the font is not inherent in the font. its a construction of those in the industry and is meaningless to many of us outside the industry. I have no idea what you are intending to convey by the different fonts. I see a fancy font and I think - "winker"
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I like the font on this one...
stumpy - but if the logo was simply the name of the company then you would know 100% of the names. So having fancy logos reduces recognition
Press the big reset right now that instantly reduces every single company's brand to plain black Arial, then watch as they immediately and expensively rush to rebuild the very carefully managed brand images they've maintained for years. They wouldn't spend that money for no reason.
Branding works. You might not think it does, you might not like that it does. But it does. You might be rubbed up the wrong way by those you perceive as arty farty superior design types. You might liken it to snake oil sales. You yourself might be bizarrely enlightened enough to be completely impervious to branding.
But on the whole, branding works. On a multinational scale and a small local scale, for evil mega corps and friendly local charity.
A poor brand image can harm a company/organisation just as much as a good brand image can benefit it. Just try to find a successful company that doesn't take its branding very seriously.
I can tell the difference - but that difference carries no meaning. The only thing that matters to me in this context is the clarity.
This has disturbing echoes of your views on photography TJ
From that conversation and this one I think it's clear that your visual cortex works in a completely different way to that of a human being. 🙄
To be fair we can only associate the typefaces with previous, known images and ideas and without the association they mean nothing.
Agreed, but that recognition is there and those are the devices creatives/marketing people use to generate a mood around a brand. Just in the same way colour does - why does red mean danger? Why does Green suggest environmental? Prior association, that's all.
You yourself might be bizarrely enlightened enough to be completely impervious to branding.
We have been there before. TJ actually really does, in reality, check the price of all tins of baked beans then buy the cheapest one (but not necessarily the *cheapest* one). The labeling saying 'Value' holds no court with TJ, oh no. Really. He told us once.
Exactly and it just demonstrates that Tandem has neither previous experiences or imagination.
oooh, can someone do a photoshop to demonstrate the problem with this vision?
Filthy five second photoshop.....
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But on the whole, branding works. On a multinational scale and a small local scale, for evil mega corps and friendly local charity
I find it hard to believe that people on a mountainbike forum, associated with a commercial magazine, can think that branding and advertising don't work! surely you don't think your choice of bike and your choice to ride MTB were decisions freely made?
surely you don't think your choice of bike and your choice to ride MTB were decisions freely made?
Why not? If you know the features that you want from a bike the brand (name) is less important. If you buy a bike because of an image, the brand is important. But yes, generally everything has an outside influence.
Why not? If you know the features that you want from a bike the brand (name) is less important. If you buy a bike because of an image, the brand is important. But yes, generally everything has an outside influence.
Sure I'll accept that the actual name is less important, but partly the fact that you want those features is a result of marketing and placement and the idea that one particular product meets your specific needs more precisely than another is part of that marketing. Not to mention that many component manufacturers turn out exactly the same stuff under different labels. Then there is style of riding, these go through phases and fashions, driven by marketing.
TandemJeremy - Member
stumpy - but if the logo was simply the name of the company then you would know 100% of the names. So having fancy logos reduces recognition
Really?
Or perhaps if they were just names, I wouldn't remember them at all, or perhaps I wouldn't remember them in context - so seeing the name Kuehne & Nagel wouldn't give me the link to make me think "ah, that's the haulage company that I saw the other day on the side of that blue lorry with the anchor symbol...", but would make me think "hmmm, I've seen that name before, but I can't remember where from".........
Yes, I couldn't remember all of the logo's, and yes if they were just names I would have been able to READ all of them, but that doesn't mean I would have known what they are, whereas all of the logo's I recognised I was able to associate with a product/service.
On the subject of logos, hopefully everyone has seen this:
....contains lots of swearyness.
i like branding... it means i can easily spot my favourite banks, fast food outlets and pubs from a distance, if it was all plain white signs with the same font i wouldnt know where anything was until i got close enough to read.
CharlieMunguI find it hard to believe that people on a mountainbike forum, associated with a commercial magazine, can think that branding and advertising don't work! surely you don't think your choice of bike and your choice to ride MTB were decisions freely made?
Absolutely so.
Ah yes, but branding and therefore your favourite brands would not exist in TJ's Utopia! Grey suits for the workers, all shall eat at the communal cafeteria. No need for choice or logos there!
😉
Stumpy01 has a very good point - that is no doubt the reason why almost all branding is actually done - recognition and association.
its a construction of those in the industry and is meaningless to many of us outside the industry
It's not a construction of the industry. They industry reflects wider society and culture - not the other way round.
TJ I think you are actually slightly autistic, which is why this stuff is meaningless to you. That's not an insult btw.
TJ I think you are actually slightly autistic, which is why this stuff is meaningless to you. That's not an insult btw.
Tagging 'this is not an insult' onto the end of a sentence, doesn't always make it so.
Tagging 'this is not an insult' onto the end of a sentence, doesn't always make it so.
how could suggesting someone is slightly autistic be construed as an insult?
Sure I'll accept that the actual name is less important, but partly the fact that you want those features is a result of marketing research and placement and the idea that one particular product meets your specific needs more precisely than another is part of that marketing. Not to mention that many component manufacturers turn out exactly the same stuff under different labels. Then there is style of riding, these go through phases and fashions, driven by marketing.
Exactly, and this thread is looking at the effect of either names or logos and their ability to make you buy one product over another. When you have to similar products and you have to buy one, what is your decision based on? We see the idea that the same manufacturers churn out the same stuff under different labels every day here, and what differentiates one product from the other? When all things are equal, I guess it must be the value that the supplier can add in the form of service, or price advantage, or cachet.
A logo is a way of helping you to remember the name of the company, IMO, without using words.
No molgrips -= the fact that to you various fonts have hidden meanings is totally an industry construct. There is no intrinsic meaning in one font over another. Non at all.
Its the same thing again. You confuse what something is branded as for what its properties are. One is inherent, one is a construct.
I'd accept some autistic spectrum traits.
Can anyone tell me why I have a sudden urge to go and buy some eggs?
EDIT - TJ, do any of the brands have autistic value to you at all?
IGMC
how could suggesting someone is slightly autistic be construed as an insult?
Well, Molgrips must have thought there was a possibility it could have been construed as such, hence the disclaimer.
No molgrips -= the fact that to you various fonts have hidden meanings is totally an industry construct. There is no intrinsic meaning in one font over another. Non at all.Its the same thing again. You confuse what something is branded as for what its properties are. One is inherent, one is a construct.
yes, but the construct has led to a general consensus. It is a social construction and would not have meaning in a different environment. However, in most of the Western world. There is the consensus so the meaning is real, even if not intrinsic
Charlie - I get you to see! However the construct is only in people who work in the industry. It has no meaning beyond this in the general public at large. There is no conscensus
So - to go back to the beginning of this. Does anyone see this as money well spent?
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Can anyone tell me why I have a sudden urge to go and buy some eggs?
Dunno.
Anyway. Have I told you about my favourite film, Cool Hand Luke?
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No, I don't want to see a movie, I want, nay need EGGS, AND I WANT THEM NOW!!!
And Tandem, you're right regarding the London 2012 logo and emperor's new clothes in the way of invoking experiences and previous known qualities, but that doesn't apply to all logos.
EDIT: As it has now become synonymous and instantly recognisable, then the answer has to be a clear "YES"
So - to go back to the beginning of this. Does anyone see this as money well spent?
why don't you tell us what it is first
TJ - what gives you the authority to speak for "the general public at large" on this? You have an opinion on how it affects you. End. Of.TandemJeremy - Member
Charlie - I get you to see! However the construct is only in people who work in the industry. It has no meaning beyond this in the general public at large.
Does anyone see this as money well spent?
The logo or the brand?
However the construct is only in people who work in the industry
No, most people who see a Comic font, take a pretty similar message.
Druidh - the same authority as MF and co have. Fair point tho. Do you really think that there is s hidden meaning in what ffont is used that everyone in the west understands?
Certainly the people I know more think like I do that like CM and MF.
Do you really think that there is s hidden meaning in what ffont is used that everyone in the west understands?
It's not hidden!!!
There is no intrinsic meaning in one font over another. Non at all.
There quite clearly is to me and I'm not in any way a "graphical" person.
I wouldn't use a solicitor, accountant or funeral director whose logo was in Comic Sans - would you? Really?
This thread has hit the tipping point, and then fallen off the cliff.
Shame....fun while it lasted.
TJ...
That's a good answer.GrahamS - MemberI wouldn't use a solicitor, accountant or funeral director whose logo was in Comic Sans - would you? Really?
funeral director whose logo was in Comic Sans
I don't know, done well and it might be the P.O.D. that gets them the competitive edge and the clear place in their marketplace.
😀
i wouldn't employ someone who handed in a CV written in comic sans
(but i would employ someone with tattoos, piercings and ginger hair... in the interest of fairness)
(maybe not the ginger hair)
This thread has hit the tipping point, and then fallen off the cliff.Shame....fun while it lasted.
Who are you to say whether it has fallen ,or not?
P.O.D.
???
I don't know, done well and it might be the P.O.D. that gets them the competitive edge and the clear place in their marketplace.
...also if they dressed like clowns.
Who are you to say whether it has fallen ,or not?
Shut up and eat your eggs.
Yes sir. 🙁
Druidh - MF thinks its acceptable - my point made. Its not intrinsic meaning, its a construct and one that is not clear to all
Druidh - MF thinks its acceptable - my point made. Its not intrinsic meaning, its a construct and one that is not clear to all
He put a smiley at the end.
Do you think most people would think that comic sans was an appropriate font for an undertaker?
No molgrips -= the fact that to you various fonts have hidden meanings is totally an industry construct.
It's not really a hidden meaning, it's just a subconscious association that's emerged over centuries of collective exposure to ideas. I wouldn't call it an industry construct, since associations have been going on since the beginning of the commercial age. Not really the same thing.
Certainly the people I know more think like I do that like CM and MF
Well that could easily be because you choose to hang out with people who see things in a similar way to yourself. There are a lot of people out here though who see things differently.
Re the 2012 logo - remember this is one of the only logos that is going out across the entire world. Asia, Europe, the Americas are all very different in terms of commerical aesthetics and I reckon that represents a massive design challenge.
Yes - but he thinks it's acceptable while also accepting that the use of the font would mark out the FD as being a bit "different" in their approach. Once again, it's the visual branding which affects his decision.TandemJeremy - Member
Druidh - MF thinks its acceptable - my point made. Its not intrinsic meaning, its a construct and one that is not clear to all
Here - I have spotted a gap in the market...
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Mind you I don't even know what comic sans is 🙂 is that it above? it seems nice and clear to me.
P.O.D.
Point Of Difference.
it seems nice and clear to me.
But what does it say to you Tandem?
Re the 2012 logo - remember this is one of the only logos that is going out across the entire world. Asia, Europe, the Americas are all very different in terms of commerical aesthetics and I reckon that represents a massive design challenge.
and it doesn't even mention the olympics on it. But we still know what it is for
Lol.. loving the demonstrations MF 🙂
Ohh MF, how about a B.O.G.O.F offer?
Box one get one free?
P.O.D.Point Of Difference.
Ta!
Once again, it's the visual branding which affects his decision.
It is understanding the effect that branding has on people that meant it could be acceptable to use it if the funeral director had suggested they wanted to go after a different market and was open to being light-hearted and amusing in their approach.