Subscribe now and choose from over 30 free gifts worth up to £49 - Plus get £25 to spend in our shop
So go thro the gate to carry up the rocky steps then push across the field. Bloke comes bumbling down from no where screaming you're trespassing etc etc it's a footpath. Gets his camera phone out and starts to film. Tells me to push my carry my bike or I'm trespassing! Calls me a prat 😆
I tell him he's a nimby.
He says I will be taken to court next time!!
What's the chance??
if you didnt ride and you had no intention to tell him to do one.
Unfortunate incident but try not to worry about it as absolutely nothing will happen.
Who is he going to take to court.
That dirty mountain biking bloke who pushed his bike over a footpath...
Why did you call him a nimby? That makes no sense.
Sounds like the lyrics to an obscure Sultans of Ping song
Without wishing to sound like an internet warrior..Tell him to call the plod and see how far it gets him, to try using some manners..and then to FRO...
I'm always impeccably nice and polite..until they're not... If they think its acceptable to be rude then they can have a bit back...
So I guess it was a footpath, but you had no intention of riding it? Can see why he might have thought otherwise to be fair. Some people just have nothing better to do, it's just a shame [i]if[/i] they are "technically" right.
Are you really bothered?!? Do you really think you will end up in court?!
Really?
Was it his land or was he the landowner's agent? If not, there is absolutely f all he can do anyway
[url= http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/pushing.html ]A foot passenger[/url]
[url= http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk/footpaths.html ]More here[/url]
"Pushing a cycle on a footpath was a grey area in law but has now been resolved - anyone pushing a bicycle is a "foot-passenger" (Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441) and is not "riding" it."
He's right about you only being allowed to push your bike on a footpath.
All you need to do is be extra specially lovely to him. Be breezy and smiley, laugh off his insults with some quip about how, [i]usually[/i], the great outdoors brings out the best in people. Thank him for his advice, pretend to mishear any insults by responding 'thank you, that's very kind' or 'I had a cup of tea and a fish finger sandwich about an hour ago'.
Miserable people want you to validate them by giving them a fight. Do the opposite and watch them burn.
It's his land. Two fields at the side and back of his house, you go through a stile off the road then up some ridiculously steep steps that no man in Britain could ride up. Then across a field, another stile, then a further stile back into the forestry owned land. It's all of 200m so hardly worth getting on the bike. He said go and take your bike elsewhere hence the nimby comment!
And to clarify for glupton he told me I must carry my bike and not push it!
I waiting to see myself on YouTube or the local town website. 😀
Next time, just offer to call the police on his behalf.
There would have to some kind of damage or loss of amenity caused by riding the bike.
Where abouts is it? Need to set up a 200m strava segment.
time for a STW forum mass ride / mass push
Where abouts is it? Need to set up a 200m strava segment.
😀
If this path is were i think it is we've had a run in with the same bloke, we were by the trig point (which i assume is where you were heading) which is not his land, but he told us we shouldn't be riding there.
He got is camera phone out then and tried to take our pictures but i kept turning round, i politely asked him if he owned the land (which i knew he didn't) to which he replied he was [b]a[/b] landowner. He then said he'd give our pictures to the rangers!
I also asked him why his dog wasn't on a lead but he couldn't answer that one, at that point i told him to have a nice day and we were going as we headed off down a great bit of downhill singletrack 😀
Anyway the conclusion i came to is the blokes a prize ****
turning the tables on Mr Landowner-Photographer slightly..
http://www.urban75.org/photos/photographers-rights-street-shooting.html
"There's nothing stopping you taking pictures of people in public places within reason, but if you start shoving your zoom lens up their nostrils or[b] taking action shots of their every step, there's a chance you might get a clip around the ear from your aggrieved subject or possibly face a legal charge of harassment or breach of the peace.[/b]
Harassment is defined as a 'course of conduct' (so it has to happen at least twice) that causes another person 'alarm or distress', but we have to say that the bullying and aggressive antics of the paparazzi would suggest that prosecutions are few and far between. "
Ask him politely for proof of identity, who is he and what right does he have to tell you not to cross the land in question.
Take a photo of him etc.
So you're pushing across the field, and he tells you to push across the field??
I always thought that, strictly speaking, you weren't even allowed to push the bike on a footpath, as a bike is 'not a natural accompaniment to a pedestrian', according to m'learned friends?
Having said that, I did it today, it was either that or the bog from hell on the bridleway.
SSboggy, it's the short footpath off bolehill up to the trig point. As I said its not even worth riding!
So can I clarify. I was pushing said heavy bike, he said I needed to pick it up and carry it or I was trespassing. I continued to push and refrained from giving him the slap I promised him if he touched me or evil bike.
I've read the linky re pushing the bike and now think I'm not doing owt wrong.
I usually tell that sort I ride where I please without consideration for anyone except myself. That normally gets a reaction, well it certainly did the last time and I'm still waiting for the rozzers.
Tell him that videoing you without permission is also an offence. Just ignore him
I know where you mean - he has previous, and is well known to the rangers.
I avoid that particular path, mainly because it's sh1t, but also I don't really want a run in with him. He has a major problem with bikes, and there's no point antagonizing nutters.
Oooh I can feel a mass trespass coming on. Where was it?
Tell him that videoing you without permission is also an offence.
It's not.
But if you're going to make up stuff just scream "Paedophile! No no... I don't want to touch it. Leave me alone" when he starts filming you. Should guarantee he doesn't show it to the rangers 🙂
I'd have got on my bike and started doing skids, like the longest most badass skid ever recorded. It would be historic.
But then, I'm an idiot so I would.
But if you're going to make up stuff just scream "Paedophile! No no... I don't want to touch it. Leave me alone" when he starts filming you. Should guarantee he doesn't show it to the rangers
"God, no, stop, please don't hit me again!" ought to do the trick.
Yes it's where I thought you meant, and it's obviously the same bloke.
Keep going back and leave a trail of breadcrumbs "for navigation".
"God, no, stop, please don't hit me again!" ought to do the trick.
anyone pushing a bicycle ... is not "riding" it
Pushing is not riding
Excellent work!
It's a good job we have lawyers with their massive brains, years of intense studying and extortionate letter-writing charges to work these things out otherwise we'd never be able to distinguish between two incredibly different actions.
Move to Scotland. Or even just the north of England where it may not be legal but people seem more accepting.
I cannot comprehend the type of mind that has an issue with people using a bicycle rather than just their feet. There is not such a massive difference between them, neither does anyone any harm, people are just selfish and narrow minded. I've given up on footpaths and the like- I just ride them and bollocks to anyone. The sooner I'm back in Scotland and can ride where I like without fear of bother the better.
The last time I was told off for riding a cheeky trail was by a walker, but I pointed out to them that it wasn't a footpath either so they were also in the wrong. Very satisfying.
If its where I think it is, then I don't bother pushing up there either. I just head round to BR and climb up from there - all rideable then.
joao3v16 - Member
anyone pushing a bicycle ... is not "riding" it
Pushing is not ridingExcellent work!
It's a good job we have lawyers with their massive brains, years of intense studying and extortionate letter-writing charges to work these things out otherwise we'd never be able to distinguish between two incredibly different actions.
Ah, now this is a classic error. The Lawyers are the clever ones who make it possible, even desirable or necessary to make obscene amounts of money by ensuring the argument gets to court in the first place. It's the judges that have to make themselves look stupid. It's a cycle I can never really comprehend, because judges were lawyers themselves once over, so quite why they allow themselves to be backed into decisions like this is anybody's guess. It may be a big double bluff, as they'll all have a really good laugh over a can of Vimto at the tuckshop afterwards.
Surely it's the public that are stupid for asking to take it to court in the first place?
The lawyers and judges are the clever ones keeping all the dumb chuffs in check and pointing out to landowners that pushing a bike is not riding it.
To be fair to the guy, whilst he is obviously a complete idiot, it is a bit annoying when people ride down that path (and why, given the lovely descent the other way!), maybe he is wound up by that and takes it out on people bringing bikes up.
Like someone says above, it is a bit of a dull slow way up, and there's a much better nice way to ride up just round the corner which is surely quicker than carrying up those steps?
[i]So go thro the gate to carry up the rocky steps then push across the field[/i]
So how do so many people know exactly where this bit of footpath is from this description? Is there something I am missing?
[i]Surely it's the public that are stupid for asking to take it to court in the first place?[/i]
In my experience it is the clever lawyers duping the public into thinking they have got a chance of winning the case and therefore earning damages. Of course it's the lawyers on both sides laughing all the way to the bank.
So how do so many people know exactly where this bit of footpath is from this description? Is there something I am missing?
Yep:
it's the short footpath off bolehill up to the trig point
🙂
So how do so many people know exactly where this bit of footpath is from this description? Is there something I am missing?
He did say later on, but if you know that Wrightyson rides round there, it was pretty obvious from the first post anyway. Bit of an obvious grumpy landowner path with the great big no cycles signs he's put up.
I cannot comprehend the type of mind that has an issue with people using a bicycle rather than just their feet. There is not such a massive difference between them,
I do understand, and sympathise with, people who object to bikers steaming down footpaths at something approaching escape velocity. Aside from the obvious danger to pedestrians etc, there's also erosion issues, perhaps livestock issues, and so on.
But that's a world apart from pushing a bike across a bit of path, or even just gently pootling along. Unless it's a case of tarring everyone with the same brush, I do generally wonder what goes through some people's minds.
My cleated foot...
Yeah I know the other way well. Lived in wirksworth as a kid and rode up br way before they cut the trees down. The only reason we cut that way is its on a loop over from shining cliff and it's the quickest way up to the trig and all the downhill fun that follows on from there down to the canal.
I shall just ignore the bloke if I come across him again!!
If he starts to film you again, get your phone out and film him.
take two phones and film yourself filming him filming you, so that you can post it and we can watch it...
I cannot comprehend the type of mind that has an issue with people using a bicycle rather than just their feet. There is not such a massive difference between them,
Some people make it their lifes work. Google Mike Vandeman.
Shh shh shhhhhhhhhh.... if you say his name three times he'll appear.
There's nothing in legislation that says someone pushing a bike is a pedestrian, but there's case law from when someone knocked over someone pushing their bike over a pedestrian crossing. The driver argued that the person injured was partially responsible as cyclists weren't allowed to use pedestrian crossings, but the judge ruled that as they were pushing they were a pedestrian.
It's been assumed that this would apply to pushing bikes on footpaths also, but it's never been tested in court because, as far as I know, nobody has ever been sued for damages over riding a bike on a footpath.
We experienced a most satisfying moment on Sunday's outing around Calderdale.
It went something like this.
Mr fat grumpy Red-Sock: [b]"Do you know this is a footpath? The bridleway is over there". [/b]
(He points furiously as we approach)
Riding buddy and I (in unison and both smiling cheerily): [b]"Yes, thankyou"[/b] as we ride past him up the footpath.
At which point Mrs Red-Sock bursts out laughing, which may have displeased Mr Red-Sock somewhat.
Cut n Paste from that Cyclecraft Link..
Worth knowing that...pity Monmousthshire CC doesn't now about it either.
Note on the law relating to pushing bicycles on public footpaths
Based on Opinion by Counsel presented to a Public Inquiry in Milton Keynes, July 1997
Section 72 of the Highways Act 1835 provides that a person shall be guilty of an offence if he :
"shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot-passengers … or shall wilfully lead or drive any … carriage of any description … upon any such footpath or causeway ".
Section 85 of the Local Government Act 1888 extends the definition of "carriage" to include "bicycles, tricycles, velocipedes and other similar machines".
"Leading or driving" clearly does not apply to a bicycle. It would apply only to other types of carriage drawn by animals, or to a horse, ass, sheep, mule, swine, cattle, truck or sledge (which are also referred to specifically in Section 72). The only basis of the offence would therefore be if someone pushing a bicycle were deemed to be "riding" it.
More significantly there is clear authority for the proposition that section 72 of the Highways Act 1835 only applies to footpaths which run along the side of a road (R v Pratt [1867] 3 QBD 64, followed in Selby v DPP [1994] RTR 157). In his judgment in Pratt, Mellor J states:
"It is clear what the object of this enactment [i.e. Section 72 Highways Act 1835] was: it was intended not to protect footpaths simpliciter, but only footpaths or causeways by the side of a road"
This interpretation was accepted by the Court of Appeal in Selby, a case which concerned a motorcyclist sitting astride a motorcycle and 'freewheeling' down an alleyway which linked two roads but did not itself run alongside a road. In delivering judgment in the Court of Appeal, Henry J said:
"It is clear from R v Pratt that they [i.e. the Magistrates in this case] were bound to find that the alleyway in question did not constitute a footpath … and their finding on that point was quite right"
Finally, there is clear judicial authority for the proposition that anyone pushing a bicycle is a "foot-passenger" (Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441) and is not "riding" it (Selby). In his judgment in the Court of Appeal in Crank v Brooks, Waller LJ stated:
"In my judgment a person who is walking across a pedestrian crossing pushing a bicycle, having started on the pavement on one side on her feet and not on the bicycle, and going across pushing the bicycle with both feet on the ground so to speak is clearly a 'foot passenger'. If for example she had been using it as a scooter by having one foot on the pedal and pushing herself along, she would not have been a 'foot passenger'. But the fact that she had the bicycle in her hand and was walking does not create any difference from a case where she is walking without a bicycle in her hand. I regard it as unarguable the finding that she was not a foot passenzer "
Furthermore, in his judgment in the Court of Appeal in Selby Taylor LJ noted that when the case was heard by the Magistrates:
"… there was no evidence before them at that stage as to how that travel had been accomplished, namely, whether the appellant had been riding the motorcycle or wheeling it"
It is therefore apparent that there is a clear difference between riding a motorcycle and wheeling it. Henry J had commented earlier in his judgment that what applies to a motorcycle must also apply to a bicycle.
I remember an incident with a farmer about 15 yrs ago. I was walking my dogs across one of the usual fields when this kn0bber came tearing up to me and said "Your dogs have made holes in my fencing over there (points to woodland) ... my sheep are getting out and you're going to have to pay ..."
"Sorry mate but my dogs haven't been anywhere near that fencing."
"Yes they have, I saw them making the holes."
"No you didn't, you're just making it up now."
"Ggrrrhh ... you'll pay for this ..."
"Listen mate, I've walked my dogs around here since I was a kid and have never been spoken to like that. Now pi55 off."
Was very surreal because he was just SO incensed yet had to make this sh1t up. Weird.
Apart from the usual "This is a footpath" / "Yes I know, silly isn't it" conversations, my favourite was from a grumpy dog walker (with dog off lead near sheep) whilst I waited for them to get to the top of a hill before I descended
DW: "There's no bikes here!"
Me, looking confused: "Funny, I'm sure I came here on one"
DW: "No! There's no bikes here!!!"
Me, pointing at the bike I'm sat on: "Well, I'm sure this is one, if you're lucky you might see some more. Have a good afternoon"
Him: "there's a sign says no bikes"
Me: "yeah the AONB put them there last year"
him: "you can't ride here"
me: "I just did. And have done for the last 20 years"
him: "but the sign says you can't"
me:"the AONB are idiots"
Him: " you cause erosion, look!"
me: "that's hoof prints"
him: "there are no horses around here "
me: "you are an idiot"
lol good stuff, to the op, I'd have been so tempted to get on and ride back down the hill shouting 'you'll have to catch me first fatty'
This kind of reminds me why englandshire is such a hole. Do your riding in a decent country.
yeah unfortunately a 3hour (each way) drive to get to a decent country is a bit much for a tuesday night rideDo your riding in a decent country.
🙄
My parents' old neighbour was driving to work one morning when a policeman leapt out from behind a bush and into the road, causing the neighbour to stop:
Plod: You're speeding.
Neighbour: Very slightly.
Plod: There are pedestrians on the roads.
Neighbour: No there aren't. It's 6.30 in the morning. There's you and there's me. And if you weren't here, it'd only be me.
I am still waiting for the chance to use that line....