I have looked into this lot a little bit more. They are a fundamentalist "christian" cult IMO. Dangerous and unsavoury people who are attempting to gain converts.
In the OPs position I would not only be withdrawing my kids. I would be doing everything in my power to stop them getting into the school.
You say its a new head. I have read of these outfits doing exactly this once they have a supporter in the school who can invite them. Its entryism attempting to gain a foothold in the UK school system to brainwash children.
Its no fluffy COE group. Its a rather nasty bunch.
Sounds pretty cult like to me. Don’t think I’d be keen on either of my kids being involved without me having more knowledge of the group beforehand. Living fire sounds like a gas fireplace from the 1960’s too.
I have looked into this lot a little bit more.
Care to show your working?
What is extravagant love?
I've watched the odd film on the internet where the gentleman gives the lady some extravagant love. Doesn't seem the best of ideas in school if I'm honest. I can't even persuade my wife to except my extravagant love in the privacy of the bedroom. I would imagine god in his omnipotent glory would be capable of generating far more extravagant love than the gents I have seen on the internet which is not something I'm really looking forward to receiving.
I have looked into this lot a little bit more.
So have I. This charming looking gentleman is the driving force.
Cougar - Searched round t'internet and read a bit of their stuff. Its not fluffy COE or even RC type stuff. Its US fundamentalist creationist stuff.
Have a search for them. IMO they appear to be the sort of people who should not be allowed around kids. dishonest as well pretending in that letter to be a local church when actually they are a US outfit.
As known from many previous conversations I have little time for organised religion but this lot appear to be way out there Combat 18 to the COEs UKIP if you want an analogy
I can’t even persuade my wife to except my extravagant love
Really? I'd have thought she excepted it on a regular basis.
Really? I’d have thought she excepted it on a regular basis.
That's where I've been going wrong all those years. Except, accept - my time in the sack will be immeasurably better now. Ta.
Church
Cult
Plenty of unknown adults have led sessions at my kids schools, many of them representing groups prone to misogyny and homophobic views. My God, the numbers of football coaches that do after school stuff, trying to indoctrinate the kids to support the local championship team.
FFS, the paranoia about religion on here is pathetic and laughable sometimes.
Yup kids loaded with tricky questions..
Do slugs go to heaven? Why not? What about giraffes? Butterflys? But why grandad and not slugs?
Did he really rise from the dead? But that's impossible! Could a slug rise from the dead if Jesus could? What about turning water into wine..could a slug do that?
More cash - there is a serious difference between COE and evangelical fundamentalist creationists
I’d be opting out and generally I am a lot more tolerant of religion than many on here.
What is extravagant love?
Chips AND a boner.
TJ - absolutely, but I wouldn't have a problem with them running a session for my kids. Once the kids report back what is being said, then the parents can make a more informed choice and pressure the head as required.
I have an issue with them getting anywhere near children. This is a cult. Would you be happy for scientologists to be allowed to attempt to indoctrinate children?
tbh I have a problem with anyone getting near kids who talks as if the existence of god is a statement of fact rather than reporting on it as a possible belief held by some. Religious education should be done in an impartial manner and (imo) the student should not be able to discern if the teacher is an atheist or has a faith.
But the op chose a faith based school for their kid(s) so I guess that is out of the window.
I love all this 'the op chose a faith based school'
Do any of you actually have children? Have you tried getting into a primary school that is near your house/near another siblings school/actually has space etc etc
We have 3 primary schools near us and 2 are cofe. The third is RC. As it happens even the RC school is easy on the dogma and the other 2 might as well be atheist apart from a couple of hymns but if they weren't nobody here would have had a choice.
In the OP's situation I would be well pissed off and certainly opting my children out plus asking wtf the school was thinking.
I like jekkyls idea but maybe with some added questions on dinosaurs.
Let the kids go along and have them hand out some leaflets from this organisation:
https://www.churchofsatan.com/
Cat, meet pigeons... 😁
My son's cryptofacist militarist Beaver colony went to a polytheist psychedelic Buddhist monastery the other week. All the children exploded. True fact.
There's a big difference between the Beavers going on an educational visit to a monastery and an evangelical house church coming into a school to actively sell their message. Buddhism isn't exactly known for proselytising anyway, is it?
Plenty of unknown adults have led sessions at my kids schools, many of them representing groups prone to misogyny and homophobic views.
That's quite surprising if it's true, and I'd be having a word with the apprioriate authorities about how those schools are fulfilling their child protection duties...
I don't see any paranoia here, just people taking from their experience. I wouldn't want a group like Living Fire anywhere near my kids, and I'd happily explain why to the kids themselves.
I'd be opting out but then I feel uncomfortable when the Gideon's come in to hand out bibles.
Schools rightly should be inclusive. The Gideon's that spoke were very "man and woman in marriage" and a bit fire and brimstone. Not a message kids should be hearing.
But the op chose a faith based school for their kid(s) so I guess that is out of the window.
As stated above, most parents have at best the illusion of choice.
As for the OP's question, it would be a no from me!
A church of England school teaching children about God. Seems to me what you signed up for by sending your child to a religious school.
I love all this ‘the op chose a faith based school’
Do any of you actually have children? Have you tried getting into a primary school that is near your house/near another siblings school/actually has space etc etc
If only people could choose where to live.
The Buddhists were quite pushy actually, but also boring, the kids were more interested in the statues
The Buddhists were quite pushy actually
Really? That's interesting, since Buddhism discourages proselytising. What message were they pushing?
Seems to me what you signed up for by sending your child to a religious school.
Quick Google shows only a third of schools are non faith based. You'd have to be pretty selective on where you lived to find one. But then STW ≠ The Real World.
Faith schools make up a significant chunk of the state primary school sector in England. As of September 2014, there were 6,210 state-funded faith primary schools, making up 37 per cent of the total number of primary schools.
and
In 2011, about one third of the 20,000 state funded schools in England were faith schools,[9] approximately 7,000 in total, of which 68% were Church of England schools and 30% were Roman Catholic. There were 42 Jewish, 12 Muslim, 3 Sikh and 1 Hindu faith schools.[1]
So exactly the opposite of what you state. Did your eyes and common sense from walking around the country for a lifetime not tell you that 2/3rds faith based was out of wack with reality? Maybe you live in a particularly god bothering part of the country. A third is still an astonishingly large number admittedly.
Both my kids went through plenty of this at a CofE primary school and have come out fine. Come to think of it, so did I, and spells at Sunday School.
They’ve also come out of trips to mosques without becoming jihadis, and various other temples/places of worship without falling foul of any evil plot. They are, however, better informed about major world religions than I am.
If you feel your kids are prone/susceptible to being brainwashed by this sort of thing then the solution may be to broaden their knowledge and experience outside of school
This.
Plenty of unknown adults have led sessions at my kids schools, many of them representing groups prone to misogyny and homophobic views. My God, the numbers of football coaches that do after school stuff, trying to indoctrinate the kids to support the local championship team.
FFS, the paranoia about religion on here is pathetic and laughable sometimes.
This. A group from a local wildlife centre came into my daughter's school this week telling them they should be nice to hedgehogs. They attempted to groom the kids by bringing real hedgehogs in and there was even hedgehog indoctrination worksheet sent home with the kids. As yet my daughter hasn't strapped explosives to herself and blown herself up in a garden fencing firm.
One group visiting is indoctrination, dozens of groups visiting is an education.
My son’s cryptofacist militarist Beaver colony went to a polytheist psychedelic Buddhist monastery the other week. All the children exploded. True fact.
😀
I have an issue with them getting anywhere near children. This is a cult. Would you be happy for scientologists to be allowed to attempt to indoctrinate children?
I wouldn't. Having had a sit down chat with scientologists as teenager I'm pretty sure no normally inteligent well balanced child is going to go for scientology and if a child isn't normally inteligent and well balanced then primary school age is a good time to identify that years before they have money to steal or the ability to leave home. I suspect the Christian message of 'Thou shalt not kill' will be greeted with equal skeptisim by a bunch of blood thirsty primary school kids.
The Church of England have never been that bothered if you are religious or not, plenty of vicars historically have been non-believers. You generally don't have to pretend you're faithful to get your kid into one, unlike RC schools. Allowing this type of evangelism into a CofE school smacks of someone in authority telling everyone they're not religious enough.
So exactly the opposite of what you state. Did your eyes and common sense from walking around the country for a lifetime not tell you that 2/3rds faith based was out of wack with reality?
Hmm, fair enough, maybe my google was too quick.
I haven't walked around the country, but i would've guessed, from experience (I do have a child, unlike many on this thread), that most schools [i]were[/i] faith based. That's why I googled (and got it wrong).
OUrs is a CofE school. They get a bit of RE and some hymns at assembly. That's generally about it. Not exactly indoctrination.
We have zero choice about where ours go, unless we fancies a nice long drive to drop them off and pick them up every day. The local school is (just about) walking distance, or a five minute detour on the way to/from work.
I'd imagine most folk are in a similar situation. Moving house* is not exactly a simple or always even realistic option as anyone with half a brain has probably worked out for themselves. Funnily enough, the houses near good schools also tend to be higher price for some reason.
* to somewhere in "the right school's" catchment area
Allowing this type of evangelism into a CofE school smacks of someone in authority telling everyone they’re not religious enough.
Smacks to me of a teacher receiving the offer and thinking "I'll let these guys come in for an hour I can get on with some marking and it gives the kids a new perspective so when they're older they won't be as paranoid about religion as the tin-foil heads on STW."
Plenty of unknown adults have led sessions at my kids schools, many of them representing groups prone to misogyny and homophobic views. My God, the numbers of football coaches that do after school stuff, trying to indoctrinate the kids to support the local championship team.
FFS, the paranoia about religion on here is pathetic and laughable sometimes.
My comment was not about religion or even the C of E. The OP mentions an ethos from the evangelical alliance. As Im sure you know, most evangelicals will support a homophobic and misogynistic biblical understanding of the bible and they will support that as if it were a fact rather than an interpretation.
As Im sure you know, most evangelicals will support a homophobic and misogynistic biblical understanding of the bible and they will support that as if it were a fact rather than an interpretation.
I've no idea if that's true but from the number of women who are Evangelistic style Christians I doubt it. However let's assume it is true, I very much doubt this group's chosen message to a mixed gender group of primary school kids in the short time they'll have is going one of hatred towards women and gays. Especially since 95pc (IME) of primary school staff are women.
Get a grip.
I’ve no idea if that’s true but from the number of women who are Evangelistic style Christians I doubt it.
If you follow UK news headlines it is pretty difficult to have missed the fact that the Evangelical wing of the Anglican Church has been fighting against equal representation for women and gay people in the CofE for many years. It's not exactly a secret, it's part of their mission statement!
So you admit you have little understanding of evangelical christian theology and what some of these evangelical church’s teach as their mission to christianity. That explains your reply.
I’ve no idea if that’s true but from the number of women who are Evangelistic style Christians I doubt it. However let’s assume it is true, I very much doubt this group’s chosen message to a mixed gender group of primary school kids in the short time they’ll have is going one of hatred towards women and gays. Especially since 95pc (IME) of primary school staff are women.
Get a grip.
I don't think they will come into school trying to tell all the kids that being gay is wrong and you will go to hell if you are gay. Get a grip.
But I do like to stand by my principles, and if a group that hold those beliefs are trying to get into schools to spread any kind of message I will oppose it.
Would you let a radical Muslim terrorist into your kids school, if they promised to only talk about the "good bits" of their beliefs?
I don’t think they will come into school trying to tell all the kids that being gay is wrong and you will go to hell if you are gay. Get a grip.
+1.
As an update, the school has sent out this follow up letter.
Living Fire is a Bible-believing church, it is run by myself *** (I have children at ***) and my husband, together with another couple, * and ** **. * works for the Church of England here in ** and is a Link Worker at the ***-based family support charity, Venture.
Members of the church include * and * *** who also run clubs at ** ** and have children within the school. ** *, * * and * ****** will be part of the team coming in to do the workshops at ** **.
The reference to the years of experience in the letter refers to decades of combined experience as teachers and volunteers working with children. We are also all DBS checked.
The Church itself is new so there is no formal literature or website but if parents want to find out more about their beliefs, the best suggestion is to have a look on the Evangelical Alliance Basis of Faith website. The EA Basis of Faith is completely in line with the ethos of the Church of England, and has Anglican, Protestant, Baptist and Methodists amongst its many member organisations, who subscribe to it. It can be found on https://www.eauk.org/about-us/basis-of-faith.
Rev * ******* also works closely with ** and is looking forward to joining the workshops.
Kind regards, Mrs * ****
I have also written to the head expressing my concerns. I am still waiting for the reply.
**** of a lot of swearing for a religious type
and my husband
So at least one of the misogynistic homophobes must be female or gay or theoretically both. 😀
The EA Basis of Faith is completely in line with the ethos of the Church of England, and has Anglican, Protestant, Baptist and Methodists amongst its many member organisations, who subscribe to it.
This is quite telling as the C of E is having quite an internal battle about how women and LGBTQ+ people are looked upon within the church. Some more liberal C of E members feel it
is being taken over by more extreme christians, sometimes funded by Evangelical churches in the USA. So anti abortion, against women priests or church leaders and anti LGBTQ+ teaching. This is not the EA working with the CofE. There are right-leaning members of all christian churches, which is why there will be some Anglican, Baptist or Methodist members who subscribe to the EA, these do not necessarily represent the whole churches.
Hmm, sending a letter like that - feel need to defend why they are there.
Sorry, they have no place in a school. Sounds like they are looking for members. Our RC primary wouldn't have any 'groups' like that in.
