This letter was sent home with young TW last night from school. Its a CofE primary school, and the letter had a slip to sign to opt out. Not sure what to make of it really. What does STW think? Anyone ever heard of living fire? Who are they?
On the morning of Friday 10th May we have the unique opportunity to welcome an experienced team
of schools’ workers and teachers, with a passion and gift for sharing the love of God with children.
They will host a series of short interactive workshops, giving each child the opportunity to engage with
God using a range of tools and discussion-starters. “What do you think God sounds like? What does
God see when he sees you? How does he feel about you? If you could ask him any question, what
would it be?”
The aim of the workshops is to use fun, relevant ways to engage with God, building confidence in
communicating with him and offering ways in which we can receive his extravagant, unconditional
love. The team hosting the workshops come from Living Fire and have years of experience
working with children.Living Fire is a local church, which was started in January 2018. Church meetings are held in
members’ homes, with a view to offer a different expression of Church to those who would feel more
comfortable worshipping God in a smaller, more familiar environment. Living Fire is built on Biblical
principles and shares the Basis of Faith of the Evangelical Alliance and the Church of England.
Two things:
1) Why are my taxes paying for a school to offer this religious indoctrination
2) It's cultish but probably no more harmful then many other mainstream religious groups.
I'd be signing the opt out slip!
Is it this lot?
GOD APPROVES!
The punk/Christian band?
Living Fire:
beaten to it!
🙂
Sounds like a pretty standard 'house church' setup. Which can anything from a nice, friendly happy clappy unit to a load of nutters who got kicked/walked out of a proper church for being a bit extreme and now have to meet in someone's front room.
Hard to tell from that write-up, they all tend to try to sound reasonable until the impressionable minds are in front of them.
I looks like one of the teachers at the school is involved with Living Fire. The content is possibly the way the school should be structuring RE lessons. I'm not a parent but I'm not sure I would be happy with an external group like that using the school in that way to promote their church. I'm not sure I agree with faith schools, but I do think schools should be discussing the main religions in an open and impartial way to help break some of the myths and prejudices held in society.
Living Fire ? Sounds one step away from The Lord Of Light 🙂
I have not heard of this particular group but there are many known cases of evangelicals attempting to use schools to indoctrinate in this way.
IMO not only do you sign the opt out. you contact whoever is in charge and ask for an explanation of who they are and who invited them and why.
I know that a few of these outfits have been banned from schools once they have been looked into
Deeply suspicious behaviour
cult
Id be complaining to the school, but we're lucky enough that we didnt have to send our kids toa church school
receive his extravagant, unconditional love
What is extravagant love?
Pffft - just tell your daughter she can go along and introduce them to her own imaginary friend. She can tell them all they need to know what that sounds like and what it thinks about and even what its favourite food is.
I'd let my kid decide. I know what he'd choose.
Few years ago schools were letting people peddle yo-yos to the kids, now it's this low yo-yo stuff. (thanks, Capn. Beefheart). Disgusting really.
What is extravagant love?
I think that's the one where the deity creates mosquitoes and malaria so that millions can die each year.
It says they share "faith" with the Evangelical Alliance. The EA is readily Googleable:
Seems they are at least a little bit culty:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Army#Baptist_Union_and_Evangelical_Alliance_membership
In any case, believer or no, I'm not sure as I'd want a bunch of self-described evangelists popping round for tea and biscuits. Doubly so with kids of primary school age.
And it does rather raise the question: why is this even necessary in a CofE school, don't they have RE teachers already? Isn't that, like, what they're being paid for?
Anyway, looks dodgy and is nothing to do with your local affiliated CE church.
What TJ said - don't just leave it/opt out.
I wouldn’t let my kids get involved in that and I’m a card carrying, churchgoing pillar of the community
That sort if thing is for the parents to teach them ( or not as they see fit)
Not the school and certainly not some randoms who appear to give a talk.
What if weeks guest “teacher” is Mr. Woppit?
Legz Akimbo.
Avoid!
What is extravagant love?
Chips AND a doner.
Two things:
1) Why are my taxes paying for a school to offer this religious indoctrination
Its a CofE primary school
Regrettably we still don't separate religion and education in this country (religious education is not the same) and due to the various funding mechanisms in place many church schools are better funded and produce better results than non Church schools. But, really, "this religious indoctrination" goes with it being a religious school.
I’d be signing the opt out slip!
I personally wouldn't, I'd say this sort of stuff goes with sending your children to a church school.
To the Op I'd say it sounds benign enough assuming you're OK with the church element of their education as it's. If you're actually bothered it might be a bit over wierd then it'd suggest asking if you can attend one of living fire's meetings before agreeing to your children attending (sounds a bit quaker-ey to me but that's very third hand), but really seeing different sides and methods of worship is a good thing (I imagine they'd not be so keen to invite a group of Sikhs or a local Imam [or heaven forbid catholics or orthodox] into the school but I'd think of this in the same vein)
Both my kids went through plenty of this at a CofE primary school and have come out fine. Come to think of it, so did I, and spells at Sunday School.
They've also come out of trips to mosques without becoming jihadis, and various other temples/places of worship without falling foul of any evil plot. They are, however, better informed about major world religions than I am.
If you feel your kids are prone/susceptible to being brainwashed by this sort of thing then the solution may be to broaden their knowledge and experience outside of school
Chips AND a doner.
Just spat tea all over my keyboard. Well played.
If you feel uncomfortable with it then opt out. I’ve no idea if it’s a cult or not but they’ve given your child the choice.
it’d suggest asking if you can attend one of living fire’s meetings before agreeing to your children attending
That's how they get you. First it will be bourbons, nice coffee and a bit of gentle guitar strumming, next you're double-tithing, worried about your sinfulness, and wondering none of your old friends want to talk to you any more.
I’d let my kid decide. I know what he’d choose.
Sort of this - my 9 yr olds recently did some homework which (amongst a great many other things) asked them to say if they had a faith to which they both said no. However I *DO* want them to make the decision for themselves and we don't exclude them from religious based activities at school (in fact we do occasionally take them to church - ie Christmas, Harvest Festival, Easter etc). But the OP situation seems a bit too intrusive for me - I'd probably ask them what they wanted to do and the answer would firmly be in the 'if their friends are doing it, they will'.
At the end of the day, I don't believe (my wife continues not to be sure) but I would be happy if they decided for themselves that they do believe. Just like I would be happy if they decided to be vegetarians despite my being a committed meat eater.
If you feel your kids are prone/susceptible to being brainwashed by this sort of thing then the solution may be to broaden their knowledge and experience outside of school
Nail: Head.
(Feet and hands too, if you're into that sort of thing)
Send him with a list of really awkward pre-prepared questions?
I had to sit through a CoE primary school, and whilst I probably believed at the time as there wasn't really an option not to, looking back it seems like a monumentally stupid way to waste 10-20% of every day when they could have been teaching something a bit more relevant for the approaching 21st century!
But then religion does seem to make some people happy and they find it helpful.
That’s how they get you. First it will be bourbons, nice coffee and a bit of gentle guitar strumming, next you’re double-tithing, worried about your sinfulness, and wondering none of your old friends want to talk to you any more.
Oddly the one person I know who ended up in something I'd very much think of as a cult wasn't allowed coffee or biscuits or even cake for that matter so I don't suppose it was how they got her. Probably the free communal housing sold it.
First it will be bourbons, nice coffee and a bit of gentle guitar strumming, next you’re double-tithing, worried about your sinfulness, and wondering none of your old friends want to talk to you any more.
could be worse, you might end up trapped on a cruise ship catching measles:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48130848
[i]and spells at Sunday School[/i]
Cool! Did you manage to turn anybody into a toad?
If you feel your kids are prone/susceptible to being brainwashed by this sort of thing then the solution may be to broaden their knowledge and experience outside of school
That's not really my worry or issue. I have opted them out as it happens. My issue is how the school can invite these groups in, what checks have been done considering they were only established in 2018. Is it necessary, and what are the expected benefits to the kids education? As someone else posted, it smacks of a member of staff, maybe the newly appointed head, being a member of this church. In which case I think it would be highly suspect and possibly unethical.
Sounds like a fairly normal thing for a Church school to do. They will have a Christian set of beliefs and probably think this is a different and engaging way of presenting things. It's not strictly CofE and that is probably why they offer the opt out.
My issue is how the school can invite these groups in, what checks have been done considering they were only established in 2018. Is it necessary, and what are the expected benefits to the kids education?
I take it you've asked the school this?
I take it you’ve asked the school this?
I am trying to, just waiting for the new heads email address.
I'm totally with perchy on this one, although unlike him, I am not a pillar of the community.
our school recently did
* peddling a dodgy "pay for video lessons" scam complete with weapons grade FOD tactics which were tantamount to saying "the schools a pile of shoot, so buy our stuff if you want your children to live do well in life"
* a seminar telling us how to protect our kids against a non existent internet threat that was debunked a few years ago
both of which took around 30 seconds of googling to conclusively discredit in one way or another
A change of PTA coincided with this rubbish starting, in our case. Another change of PTA might coincide with it stopping. I hope.
I am trying to, just waiting for the new heads email address
S.m.moon@waco.ac.uk
Going by the contents of the letter, this is not a piece of comparative religious education, it's straight up missionary work by an evangelical group. I'd be sceptical about independent house churches as well. How transparent are they? Are they operating under standard child protection procedures, etc?
I have experience of an in-law who was involved with a fairly big local independent church, affiliated (franchised) from an American evangelical movement. It turned out there were some seriously dodgy people involved in running the operation. Of course that can apply to any religious organisations, but independents can potentially be even less transparent about how they work.
Even if it is above board, I'd be staying well clear.
IMO it's dangerous, subversive rubbish but you chose to send your child to a church school so I'm not sure why you are surprised that they are teaching them about god and religion?
It's only one morning with some extra keen god bothers, I doubt it will actually have much impact on your children. They might enjoy it and unless you are planning on taking your kids to one of their houses for a pray, these people will never have contact with your kids again. I would not stop them going as that is just forcing your religious view on them.
My children go to a COfE school, I am not religious and that decision comes form years of being made to go to church and it being part of school life/ education when I was little.
I am not particularly worried about my children being exposed to Christianity as I don't really think it takes at that age. Most of the adult Christians I know we're 'got' in there 20s.
It depends how comfortable you are with a group of unknown adults, who are probably not trained teachers, spending time in school telling your child lies as truth, probably with a leaning to homophobia and misogynistic thinking. Doesn’t sound fun or educational.
Churches are just state sanctioned cults.
Both my kids went through plenty of this at a CofE primary school and have come out fine. Come to think of it, so did I, and spells at Sunday School.
They’ve also come out of trips to mosques without becoming jihadis, and various other temples/places of worship without falling foul of any evil plot. They are, however, better informed about major world religions than I am.
If you feel your kids are prone/susceptible to being brainwashed by this sort of thing then the solution may be to broaden their knowledge and experience outside of school
This ^
JP
an organisation that operate out of people's homes has even more potential to be rather unsavoury, even more so that your standard church institutions. I'd definitely be opting out,
