Delete if we have done this - I cannot see it anywhere.
But... [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/23/no-religion-outnumber-christians-england-wales-study ]people of no religion now outnumber Chrsitians[/url]. Other news sources are avaiable from those who are offended by the Guardian. 😉
“The striking thing is the clear sense of the growth of ‘no religion’ as a proportion of the population,” said Stephen Bullivant, senior lecturer in theology and ethics at St Mary’s Catholic University in Twickenham, who analysed data collected through British Social Attitudes surveys over three decades.
so it isn't "millitant atheists" saying this...
It is, I think, rather nice to see studies showing what most of us knew.
The proportion of the population who describe themselves as Anglican plunged from 44.5% in 1983 to 19% in 2014. Catholics made up 8.3%, other Christians 15.7% and non-Christian religions 7.7%
Perhaps we can now move away from people like David Cameron, and some of the posters here assuming we are a Christian Country... cos we ain't.
8)
Perhaps we can now move away from people like David Cameron, and some of the posters here assuming we are a Christian Country... cos we ain't
Perhaps we can also now move away from some of the posters here assuming we all live in England or Wales... cos we don't 😉
It's heading in the right direction [url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jason-a-murdock/atheism-northern-ireland_b_3354877.html ]over here too[/url].
This'll end well, as ever.
I reckon they must have changed the question, surely, to get such a massive jump over such a small time frame. A big flip like that over four years just makes me think the researchers ****ed up or deliberately moved the goalposts.
..we are though. Not religioulsy Christian but a nation of Christian values.
I'm an Atheist but would say i have Christian values.
I'm atheist but prefer to have good values not some Christian discriminatory ones.
meh, depends what you define as Christian values. There are questionable interpretations attached to all value systems.
What kind of immigration is that you suggest might have reduced the number of Christians?
[quote=aP ]What kind of immigration is that you suggest might have reduced the number of Christians?
[i]Christians now in a minority - and it is loss of faith[b] not[/b] immigration...[/i]
the kind that he didn't....
lol, an atheist defending, and pick and choosing which 'Christian' values he ascribes to has genuinely tickled me 😆meh, depends what you define as Christian values
Seriously though, surely as an atheist you can claim [i]post[/i]Christian values, and would rather distance yourself from the somewhat antiquated, mysoginistic and discriminatory values associated with Abrahamic religion?
Good to see PDF creeping up the religious tables
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Aye, whatever, I dont really think about it, I just try to be good.
lol, an atheist defending, and pick and choosing which 'Christian' values he ascribes to has genuinely tickled me
surely that's the same as any Christian (insert any other religion here) as well?
I just try to be good.
I think you'll find you'll be straight to hell for that one!
There was a report on the news the other week saying that immigration from Poland, Romania etc have actually increased Roman Catholic Church numbers
I don't think it's entirely an increase in the numbers of people who have no faith. I think a large part of it is people at last being happy to declare they have no religion.
As for "Christian Values", I assume that is another way of saying "Moral Values". Christianity or indeed any religion doesn't really enter into it.
Oh and as for:
"A spokesperson for the Church of England said: “The increase in those identifying as ‘no faith’ reflects a growing plurality in society rather than any increase in secularism or humanism. We do not have an increasingly secular society as much as a more agnostic one"".
How does he know that? Was there a specific question on the survey?
Absolutely. And the golden rule, do unto others as you would have done to yourself is about as Christian a rule as it gets, I suppose.Aye, whatever, I dont really think about it, I just try to be good.
Oh, wait... It's pretty much universal throughout humanity.
I don't try. I am good.
Now I want to be wealthy so have to be bad 😈
Absolutely. And the golden rule, do unto others as you would have done to yourself is about as Christian a rule as it gets, I suppose.
You're thinking of torture people for eternity who disagree with you.
How does he know that? Was there a specific question on the survey?
He's got the hotline to the one true God. innit.
You're thinking of torture people for eternity who [s]disagree with you.[/s] are poor
I can see where the Tories got their ideology from now....
Christian but a nation of Christian values.
I'm an Atheist but would say I have Christian values.
you persecute gay people, subjugate women and will marry your bother wife if he dies?
Clearly I cheery picked most Christians are decent and reasonable people despite what the book tells them to do.
IMHO the morality of Christian , like most moral systems, it really depends on where you look as to whether its good or you follow it.
Original sin for example is an inherently evil proposition- good radio 4 article on it this week
That said Christian values have influenced this country and where we are now
Loss of faith? Well the end of the world never seems to happen on time, every time and the Saviour never appears when promised.
As a christian, this doesn't provide much positive evidence to strengthen my faith.
On a positive note, at least Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny are regulars.
That said Christian values have influenced this country and where we are now
It plunged the continent into the dark ages. Throwing off it's influence has got us where we are now.
Does that mean that they cant be discriminated against now? It will be relief for them to have protected minority status.....
It plunged the continent into the dark ages. Throwing off it's influence has got us where we are now.
I thought historians had changed their minds about this, and don't really used the term "dark ages" anymore?
Hmm, a 'representative' survey of 3000 people finds results that are radically different from the most robust 'survey' that we have (in the fact that everyone has to fill it in by law)
I know what I'd be putting my money on
And yet, we're not getting any [i]nicer[/i] as a nation, are we? Subjectively, anyway, to me.
The thing about replacing what were once traditional Christian values with a form of moral-based rational logic is that (IMHO), many people are neither moral, rational, or logical.
How do we inculcate values that are good for us all and mean that we can all rub along, for the good of society in general, in the absence of a fundamental framework and set of values that many now just don't seem to have?
And yet, we're not getting any nicer as a nation, are we? Subjectively, anyway, to me.
Agreed, but I very much doubt Faith has (or ever had) anything to do with being nice....
in the absence of a fundamental framework and set of values that many now just don't seem to have?
Good manners / behaviour do not need religion, just decent parenting.
It plunged the continent into the dark ages. Throwing off it's influence has got us where we are now.
Do you know anything about the so-called 'Dark Ages'?
I certainly don't mind you having your opinions, but please don't make such blanket, non-sensical, and grossly inaccurate assertions, and this thread will go a lot better.
And yet, we're not getting any nicer as a nation, are we? Subjectively, anyway, to me.The thing about replacing what were once traditional Christian values with a form of moral-based rational logic is that (IMHO), many people are neither moral, rational, or logical.
How do we inculcate values that are good for us all and mean that we can all rub along, for the good of society in general, in the absence of a fundamental framework and set of values that many now just don't seem to have?
Society is getting less violent, sexist and abusive with each passing decade. I'd say that our rational morality has gone a long way towards causing that.
95 percent of peoples sense of morality is inherent to them - the other 5 percent are psychopaths/sociopaths etc etc.
43% Christian - not exactly a minority. What % voted Conservative?
Hmm, a 'representative' survey of 3000 people finds results that are radically different from the most robust 'survey' that we have (in the fact that everyone has to fill it in by law)I know what I'd be putting my money on
The question in the census is worded differently to the social attitudes survey so gives different results. The social attitudes survey, the census, and church attendance figures and show the same direction of travel, even if they disagree on exact numbers.
Agreed, but I very much doubt Faith has (or ever had) anything to do with being nice....
This is very true. Good call, footflaps.
Good manners / behaviour do not need religion, just decent parenting.
This, on the other hand, not so much. Not that it is absolutely wrong, but philosophy still demands that we come to terms with what we define as 'good', and where that 'good' comes from.
In other words, it is not enough [i]just[/i] to say 'good parenting' or whatever.
v8ninety - Memberlol, an atheist defending, and pick and choosing which 'Christian' values he ascribes to has genuinely tickled me
I see your point, that position makes them look like a pretty devout christian, by the standards of today.
TBH the line between atheism and weak faith has never been fainter, as demonstrated by all those people who identify themselves as christian then say they don't believe in god. But then, we are a bike forum where nobody cycles.
But then, we are a bike forum where nobody cycles.
Stone him.
This, on the other hand, not so much. Not that it is absolutely wrong, but philosophy still demands that we come to terms with what we define as 'good', and where that 'good' comes from.In other words, it is not enough just to say 'good parenting' or whatever.
Unless of course, morality is a biological construct designed to serve evolutionary purposes.
Philosophy is dead, long live science. 😆
TBH the line between atheism and weak faith has never been fainter, as demonstrated by all those people who identify themselves as christian then say they don't believe in god. But then, we are a bike forum where nobody cycles.
And 13% of UKIP members are going to vote remain in the referendum.
I personally think there is a large gap now between the generations. I'm 41 and i know that most of my parents generation would of described themselves as Christian on a survey, even if they attended Church once a year or never at all, it was the "done" thing.
Within my own generation, i know very few of my friends who actively attend church, and i think that it has become acceptable to actually state you're an atheist or agnostic.
I feel that if you surveyed the the younger generation to me, it would be even less.
Unless of course, morality is biological
Indeed. But you will know that biology is by no means a commonly accepted answer to the question of where it is 'good' comes from. That is why philosophers - religious and non-religious alike - continue to ask the question.
EDIT: Nice stealth edit, above. However, when you say
Philosophy is dead, long live science.
You do so in the face of the entire intellectual world, which is saying 'horseshit'. 😉
I'm calling it here: 9 pages.
You do so in the face of the entire intellectual world, which is saying 'horseshit'.
😀
Pffff. Like I care.
The space in which Philosophers can speculate is getting smaller all the time.
FWIW I'm a Christian and I turn the other cheek and forgive all you Godless heathens.
I don't think religion should have anything to do with the way a country is run.
Moral values, not Christian values make more sense to me, especially in this age of mixed cultures and dwindling interest in / need for religion.