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You need to learn to seperate 'having fun' from 'crap driving'
At one quarry I used to work at, I found a corner coming off a stockpile where I could powerslide a 26tonne Volvo loading shovel fairly easily. Now, THATS 'not the best tool' eihter, but it sure is fun!
PP - if you are 'having fun' in situations where you might endanger others (on the road), I'd call that crap driving, regardless of how skilled you are. Your reference to messing round in a quarry isn't particularly relevant. And this is all going a bit OT anyway....
What do you need 'improve(ed) acceleration' for?
Overtaking on country roads, accelerating along short slip roads, drag racing BMW's........the list is quite long..... 😉
SM - I am calm, thanks.
Problem with chipping diesels is it does not remove the 100kg extra weight over a petrol version from the car 🙂
its widely acknowledged the 320d is better with the Diesel being both faster & more powerful...
It might be. But speed and power are not the be all and end all of driving, you know. 🙂
With custom map you often get a smoother power delivery too. My A2 had a very narrow power band, started at 2000rpm and was all over by 3000. Now it starts at around 1700rpm and will only tail off at around 4000. If i can ar5ed, i'll dig out the rolling road graph that show the before and after traces. The extra power is almost a bonus, it doesn't affect fuel ecomony, the car drives better for it. In same ways id say why wouldn't you?
Going back to the original post, chipping cars isnt a bad thing and doesn't "kill" the car. It might cause problems with bits and pieces that are on their way out though. Avoid the "plug and play" options, get it on a rolling road for a proper remap. As i recall the cost is not too dissimlar.
Vauxhall's are sh1te... that will explain a lot
Overtaking on country roads, accelerating along short slip roads, drag racing BMW's........the list is quite long.....
That's exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks! 🙂
Training will teach you most of that. You don't need more power. Seriously, go and find out for yourself. I know you think I'm talking bollox (How can training make me overtake faster?) and I'm not even going to try and explain it here. Just do it. It'll be chaeper than a chip, and you'll be faster. Live and learn, I dare you. 🙂
PP - if you are 'having fun' in situations where you might endanger others (on the road), I'd call that crap driving,
And what if you're not?
PeterPoddy - Member
its widely acknowledged the 320d is better with the Diesel being both faster & more powerful...
It might be. But speed and power are not the be all and end all of driving, you know.
I didn't imply it was...
I didn't imply it was...
Thankyou. 🙂
But you did.......
Training will teach you most of that. You don't need more power. Seriously, go and find out for yourself. I know you think I'm talking bollox (How can training make me overtake faster?) and I'm not even going to try and explain it here. Just do it. It'll be chaeper than a chip, and you'll be faster. Live and learn, I dare you.
You're assuming I haven't gone & found out for myself..................
You're assuming I haven't gone & found out for myself..................
Ah yes, true. Good point. Have you? 🙂
PeterPoddy - Member
But you did.......
I didn't, you presumed.
and noticably lighter up front.....
the key point most often overlooked by diesel afficionados...
Horses for courses.
Not every car needs to be the ultimate expression of performance.
Many of us like a comfy car that can move rapidly when you press the pedal. RWD, racing brakes, superb turn in and blah blah blah might not be really that important...
Food for thought for you petrol/diesel heads.
Having driven Audi A8 in 4.2 petrol and diesel variants, and also in 6.0 petrol, I can safely say that the nicest engine (in terms of response, effortless acceleration/mid-range thrust etc etc) was the 4.2 diesel. The 6.0 W12 was actually a bit disappointing, and seemed to want to kick down whenever you pressed the accelerator.
In a similar vein, the BMW 730i seems a bit undernourished compared to the 730d.
All of this is before considering the fuel consumption, which in the diesel cars is roughly half that of their petrol equivalent.
The above are heavy old things, and the additional weight of the TDi engines is therefore less noticeable. In smaller cars there's less of a clear-cut case, but for the big brigade, I'd go diesel every time.
Passat CC 2.0 TSI = 1533 kg
Passat CC 2.0 TDI = 1566 kg
33kg in it for the same displacement.
The above are heavy old things, and the additional weight of the TDi engines is therefore less noticeable. In smaller cars there's less of a clear-cut case, but for the big brigade, I'd go diesel every time.
I'd probably agree with this, big car, autobox, diesel is a no brainer.
But every time I see a TDI Audi TT or VW Scirroco TDI I just wonder what they were thinking
But every time I see a TDI Audi TT or VW Scirroco TDI I just wonder what they were thinking
Easy. You want something reasonably nippy and sporty, but don't want to put up with 30mpg. Seems perfectly straightforward to me. Whoever buys a Scirocco clearly isn't after the ultimate racing track experience, so why does it matter if it's diesel?
Problem with chipping diesels is it does not remove the 100kg extra weight over a petrol version from the car
BMW 335i Auto - 1550kgs
BMW 335d (always auto) - 1580kgs.
That'll be almost very close equivalent engines, performance and a mere 30kg difference. Similar with Mol's example. 30 odd kgs is nothing in cars over 1500kgs - a mere 2% difference. A few options will add more weight.
335d Coupe also gets the same 1/4 mile time as a 135i. 13.9s. And a better lap time around Bruntingthorpe than the 335i.
Da da!
Mol, the diesel TT (and yes, I have driven one), can by no means be described as nippy.
Swift, certainly, but the diesel's inability to rev and lack of throttle responsiveness takes away a lot of the fun of the petrol versions.
Obviously the fact that it's not RWD means that it's rubbish anyway, could never be considered as a sporty car, it's only for hairdressers anyway...blah.....but in the case of the diesel version, it's true. Just a Golf diesel in a posh frock.
can by no means be described as nippy
I can't imagine how a car with 170bhp weighing 1370kg would not be nippy by my standards! 🙂
I have to admit that a diesel in a TT does seem a bit wrong.
335d Coupe also gets the same 1/4 mile time as a 135i. 13.9s. And a better lap time around Bruntingthorpe than the 335i.
Is there a link to the brunty test ? Brunty is pretty much one big straight with one slowish corner and two fast ones. I would be more interested to see how it faired somewhere like Cadwell or even Anglesey.
I used to love turn one at Brunty, its a 120mph flat out corner if you took a passenger out, you could see them going for the imaginary pedal and thinking why is he still accelerating and not braking 🙂
Bazzer - it's very lame but all I have is a frame grab of the last page - you need either good eyesight or binos - or both to see it properly:
The 335i was a manual too 😉
[IMG] 
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I have to admit that a diesel in a TT does seem a bit wrong.
Well if I fancied something nippy but want more than 40mpg, what else is there?
Mol, I'm not explaining myself very well.
It's quick, certainly, but it feels a bit more grown-up than the petrol version, a bit more of a cruiser than a sports (sort-of) car. The throttle response has a lot to do with it, as is the fact that you rely on the mid-range rather than the revs.
The engine's astonishingly dull, and for me a sports car should always have an evocative engine rather than just a boring unit which produces an adequate amount of thrust.
So it'll go quickly enough, but I didn't find it especially rewarding to drive down a country road where you're constantly varying throttle and steering inputs. I'm not claiming that the petrol version is a real sports car, but it comes a damn sight cloer.
I see.. sounds great, just what I'd like 🙂
Perhaps they should look at super+turbo charging for their sporty diesels, like they did with the TSI. Or maybe stop mincing about and put the 4.2 V6 TDI from the Touareg in there.
Re throttle response tho, on my TDI it's instant provided you're in the right gear.
Dammit, double post!
Well if I fancied something nippy but want more than 40mpg, what else is there?
Lotus Elise, any diesel BMW (not the X ones though) with 20d engine or above, current MX5 might just do 40mpg, Boxster isn't far off and probably loads more.
Oh and there isn't a 4.2TDI Touraeg...;-)
Elise? Small and unrefined.
BMW? Family saloon, not the same thing.
How about 50mpg? 🙂
Oh and there isn't a 4.2TDI Touraeg...;-)
There was, along with the 5.0l V10.
Oh and there isn't a 4.2TDI Touraeg...;-)
Pretty sure it was a V8 rather than a V6 (the 3.0TDi was/is V6).
Mol - Audi did an 8 pot 4.2TDI - it never went into the Touraeg or any VW.
You either get a 3.0TDI (used to be 2.5) or a 5.0TDI (V10) - that's it.
Define "nippy" then. A 320d for example is "nippier" than a TDI TT. It's VERY good on fuel. Oh and how about a 123d? Small, coupe available, really rather rapid (over 200bhp) and "right" wheel drive with 45mpg 😉
Ah yes, the 4.2 is petrol. You don't get the 5.0 any more tho.
The BMW 1 series is ok but the Scirocco is just about the most beautiful car on the road I reckon. Combined 53mpg UIAVMM.
Mol - my utterly cr4p error. They have just started sticking a 4.2TDI in the Touraeg (in the last few months)! Dropped the 5.0TDI as you say and still using a 6 pot 3.0TDI. I missed that!
Scirroco is pretty but the 123d is [b]better[/b] 😉
Mol - Audi did an 8 pot 4.2TDI - it never went into the Touraeg or any VW.
The new Touareg is definitely fitted with a V8 4.2TDi (in some markets), albeit not yet in the UK.
EDIT: As you've just spotted yourself.
Not cheap tho, the 123d.
Nor is a decently specced TT TDI.
Or Scirroco.
Scirocco seems cheaper tho.
And definitely nicer.
Spend the money on sticky tyres, brakes and decent shocks instead.I reckon It's a lot more fun to have the extra handliness than the power. Though both are nice.
No matter how much extra power chipping will give you, it's never helpful if you're upside down going sideways thinking "**** me...... how did that happen?"
That's my opinion anyhow. others may differ etc.
Spend the money on sticky tyres, brakes and decent shocks instead.I reckon It's a lot more fun to have the extra handliness than the power.
I reckon flinging your car around on country roads is more dangerous than the odd razz up a sliproad or overtaking on a straight. But there you go.
With you there Molgrips. If you are interested in flinging a car to those extremes get onto a track.
If you want a buzz......an off the wall suggestion here......get on a mountain bike and rag it to the edge on a great descent.
get on a mountain bike and rag it to the edge on a great descent
That's what I do 🙂
"I reckon flinging your car around on country roads is more dangerous than the odd razz up a sliproad or overtaking on a straight. But there you go. "
You're right, I agree etc, but I mostly use my cars off road or on the track, and going fast in straight lines is seriously dull.:) and on the road, I'd still rather have the ability to keep the rubber firmly stuck to the road in any conditions, straight line braking etc or otherwise than a few extra ponies.
It's also quite reassuring to have the extra braking and handling in reserve for when some buffoon in a chipped up car with suspension and brakes not really up to the power, comes razzing up a sliproad or overtakes messily whilst in racing driver in a company car mode and makes a d**k of themselves:) etc.
I would just consider a remap as a bit of a toy, not a genuine attempt at true racing performance. Pointless? Well, I don't have one 🙂
I concur, for real perfromance differences, you really need to start looking at the induction and exhaust systems,cam profiles, balancing/blueprinting, weight reduction etc. Again thats just my opinion though, that and i like mucking about with cams and the like. stops me making a mess in the house anyway 🙂
I'm rather tempted to study up and learn about fuel maps and then do my own. Takes a bit of courage to do that on your daily driver tho 🙂
What I really want to do is adapt engines to implement my new ideas on how to make engines more efficient. You've heard of the Otto cycle, the Diesel cycle, the Atkinson cycle.. watch out for the Molgrips cycle 🙂