[Closed] Chinese Medicine

[i]Unless we have some very old pharmaceutical scientists on STW, I don't really think anyone can categorically state that Eastern medicine has not influenced Western medicine, and that Eastern medicine is complete nonsense.[/i]

It's not 'complete' nonsense, very few things are completely true, or completely false. But if you are going to make a claim about it's efficiency, you've also got to include all the garbage such as Tiger Penis curing erectile problems etc.

LOL! So why don't I get better when I had it first with the Bupa Ap?

Because you didn't really believe it was going to work, perhaps? Who knows.

My own experiences..

So, you've had experiences where people stuck needles randomly in your body and didn't tell you?

(If they didn't tell you - how do you know?)

And how many times have you had Ap where you could compare good with bad? LOL!

I haven't - otherwise I'd be recounting my findings rather than saying it'd be interesting to test it.

my reply- re owning was also a joke.

I don't really think anyone can categorically state that Eastern medicine has not influenced Western medicine, and that Eastern medicine is complete nonsense.

Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) is largely based on the philosophical concept that the universe is made of an energy called qi. This energy can be any state of matter or energy in existence. TCM believes that the body is a small universe unto itself that is a complex of subsystems of energy and matter, and that these systems work together to maintain a healthy mind and body. The characteristics of the operation of the mind/body are described in terms of the five elements (metal, water, wood, fire, and earth), Yin/Yang organs, deficiency/excess, emptiness/fullness, hot/cold, wind, dampness, pathogens, internal/external, meridian channels, qi (several different types), essences, body fluids, vessels and more

Er, the human body is a bit more complicated than 'it's to do with blood pressure, and kidneys are too, so therefore poking kidneys cures tinnitis'

Not sure that was my point, or what I said, but fair enough.

It's not 'complete' nonsense, very few things are completely true, or completely false. But if you are going to make a claim about it's efficiency, you've also got to include all the garbage such as Tiger Penis curing erectile problems etc.

I agree, I'm not claiming that Chinese medicine is all good, some of it is complete nonsense, and I think it should be provided with a caveat that it can't cure everything.

I remember a story where a Chinese family used Chinese medicine to treat their daughters illness, it was something like asthma. The daughter died, whereas if they had gone to a Western hospital she probably wouldn't have.

My point is that Eastern medicine shouldn't and can't all be dismissed as nonsense, and that Western medicine has learned from it.

My point is that Eastern medicine shouldn't and can't all be dismissed as nonsense

I agree - but as far as I'm aware, that doesn't happen. Well, not by anyone important, anyway.

I am of the understanding that there is some decent evidence for accupuncture but more testing is needed to be sure. It can't do any harm

I would avoid the herbal stuff tho - so very dodgy reports / cases about what happens with that.

The is really no such thing as western medicine vs eastern medicine.

There is medicine that has proved its efficacy via controlled experiments in double blind trials and there is everything else.

There are no holy shibboleths in medicine if an alternative treatment is proved to work via the scientific method it ceases to become "alternative" and simpy becomes medicine.

See Ben Goldacres book "Bad Science"

Rich, whilst I agree totally, I use the terms because it's easier to write "eastern medicine" than "unproved practices common in eastern countries which may or may not have any effect beyond placebo" when trying to discuss things. It's catchier, no?

(I own Bad Science and consider it essential reading)

(I own Bad Science and consider it essential reading)

Trick or Treatment is better.

Anyway... back to what I originally posted...

TCM works on the basis of preventative approach - this is the bit which sounds interesting. I would love to have a check up and see what issues they could find, bit like having your car MOT'd. If I could improve my overall health and well being then great.

It may be that I use western medicine to achieve any improvements but the approach of looking at what could be done to improve rather than fixing something when it falls apart sounds good.

Western medicine is based on I have an issue lets cure it! what if I didn't realise I had a problem which was affecting my health (and my ability to ride a bike)?

It does sound good, doesn't it.

You can do this now without resorting to [s]quackery[/s] alternative medicine. BUPA offer it as a service, for one (it came up in my benefits package at work recently as something I could buy) (so, not much of a benefit, but hey).

Chinese medicine uses herbs etc to aid the body to heal itself by going to the root cause of the problem.

Western medicine "patch" the problem with instant relieve but may not solve the root cause of the problem.

Chinese medicine takes a while to take effect but when it does it should have minimum size effect.

Western medicine takes effect instantly but you need another dose of other medication to combat the side effect.

Chinese medicine repairs the "chi" (energy flow) while Western medication sometimes do more harm to the "chi" than good.

I have taken/drank tonnes of Chinese herbal medicine as a kid due to internal organ injuries and it solved the problem.

To find a good Chinese doctor is VERY difficult so unless the person is trusted you may need to take things in smaller dosage.

🙂

[i]Chinese medicine uses herbs etc to aid the body to heal itself by going to the root cause of the problem.

Western medicine "patch" the problem with instant relieve but may not solve the root cause of the problem.[/i]

I look forward to seeing the first TCM A&E department 🙂

Chinese medicine takes a while to take effect but when it does it should have minimum size effect.

You could say the same of anything that has no effect. Back when I had cancer, I drank lots of herbal tea. I can happily report that, unlike conventional treatments, I saw NO SIDE EFFECTS WHATSOEVER! (Well, apart from weeing a lot.)

Is it just me or did everyone suddenly get f'cking stupid today?

(note to the humour-impaired, I haven't had cancer)

In the western world we test all these herbs. The ones that work we call "medicine" and the ones that don't get thrown away.

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Are you sure ? I didn't think it worked like that 😕

I was under the impression that in the western world we test all these herbs, and the ones which work and, we can figure out why they work, we call "medicine". The ones which don't or, we can't understand why they should work, get thrown away.

My understanding is that anything without a logical explanation to back it up, doesn't "work".

BTW I have literally come in from a session of acupuncture, so needless to say, I'm not much bothered by what people tell me I should or should not believe in.

Chinese medicine is probably great, the shop we went to not so. Funnily enough we’ve never found another reason to go back;
My son had infantile eczema and was prescribed a creme with steroids in it by the dermatologist. My wife went to the Chinese herbal/ doctor shop to see if they had any non-steroid treatment. She came home with some creme and herbs (I put the herbs that we were meant to bathe him in in a cupboard and we didn’t use them);

The tube of creme only had instructions in Chinese and after lots and lots of searching I found that it contained steroids in a larger dose than you are supposed to buy over the counter in the UK,

A few weeks later I went to look at the herbs, opened the bag and found them crawling in bugs. Maybe they were tested and the bug eggs were an essential ingredient.

Like I said before it is VERY difficult to find an authentic Chinese doctor that mainly prescribes herbs with real knowledge.

Most Chinese medication is to prevent, to some extend cure if illness is at late stage, the illness escalating so it takes time for it to work. But most only found out they have certain illness at a very late stage and in those situation the only way to deal with the problem is to open your body up. i.e. operation.

In the West, because of fascination with Chinese medicine or exotic remedies, many half baked so called "traditional doctors" started to spring up all over the place and Mr & Mrs Britons thought they found the miracle cures but what they do not know is that they found a new cowboy in town.

Cougar - Member

You could say the same of anything that has no effect. Back when I had cancer, I drank lots of herbal tea. I can happily report that, unlike conventional treatments, I saw NO SIDE EFFECTS WHATSOEVER! (Well, apart from weeing a lot.)

A real Chinese does not mean green tea and all those shite you got from the shop ready made. Also a true Chinese doctor with great knowledge will not use exotic/extinct animal parts or animal parts at all. As for the dosage they are usually individual adjusted and customised according to your chi so there should ideally be no one single herbal to fit all.

Is it just me or did everyone suddenly get f'cking stupid today?

No, everyone has just become f'cking stupid if they think that there is only one way to cure illness.

🙄

hello everyone,As this forum is related to chinese medicines i hv a question,plz reply me asap

Do Chinese antiviral herbs help treat cancer?
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oh dear now look what u've gone and done 🙂

also i haven't read all of this thread but aren't most drugs that we use synthesised from plants/herbs,

About 5 years ago my started to get a rash on his legs which got worse and developed into eczema. GP prescribed some E45 cream initially and then some other ointment. Things werent getting better and the GP suggested the next stage was prescribing steroid based medicine.

A friend of mine who had suffered from the same problem since we were kids told me to visit a Chinese clinic , which he claimed would cure the problem. This fella gave us two weeks supply of herbal drinks , a bath soak and a small pot of cream.

Sure enough it cured the problem and hes never had it since.

So in this case yes Chinese medicine did work.

ernie_lynch - Member

In the western world we test all these herbs. The ones that work we call "medicine" and the ones that don't get thrown away.

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Are you sure ? I didn't think it worked like that

I was under the impression that in the western world we test all these herbs, and the ones which work and, we can figure out why they work, we call "medicine". The ones which don't or, we can't understand why they should work, get thrown away.

My understanding is that anything without a logical explanation to back it up, doesn't "work".

BTW I have literally come in from a session of acupuncture, so needless to say, I'm not much bothered by what people tell me I should or should not believe in.

Nope, there's plenty of treatments that have beneficial side effects medicine can't explain (yet). They're still used. As above, there's medicine (proved to work) and everything else (not proved to work).

lalazar >

When I was at school I suffered from eczema for several years. In that time I ate chips. The eczema cleared up, I've not had it since I was a teen. By your argument, eating chips a) cures eczema and b) is as effective as Chinese medicine.

...and a small pot of cream.

Whilst we're in anecdotal evidence mode, read back a few to Stuuey's post. His son had eczema and "the tube of creme [from a Chinese Doctor] contained steroids in a larger dose than you are supposed to buy over the counter in the UK." Interesting how the cream in your tale is almost an afterthought, clearly it must be the herbal tea curing your eczema rather than the large dose of steroids.

I accept Stuueys point but in all honesty that small tub of cream is still at home barely used. Whilst I dont know how long you ate chips for my sons problems diminished over the fortnight he used the medicine and never came back.

[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean [/url]