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Anyone ever used chinese medicine? I see a lot of "Dr and Herbs" springing up all over the place. However I've never used them myself even though I spent a good deal of my childhood in Hong Kong.
My understanding is that they work on a preventative approach rather than the western curative methodology. I fancy giving them a go but not sure if they are worth a punt or not as I don't know what to expect.
My understanding is that they work on a preventative approach rather than the western curative methodology. I fancy giving them a go but not sure if they are worth a punt or not as I don't know what to expect.
Nope they are just a bunch of herbs with little or no medicinal value and may actually be harmful. If there is anything actually wrong with you then your best bet will be to go to the doctor and if there is nothing wrong then why bother doing anything.
I fancy giving them a go but not sure if they are worth a punt or not as I don't know what to expect.
Tiger's dick, twice a day - you'll never get ill, ever again
Sounds like you have some experience of this, what's your research based on?
Who's Tiger and how big is he? 😉
Sounds like you have some experience of this, what's your research based on?
Gullible internet posts mainly 🙂
Some of it will work because it has an active ingredient that dose the job. Most of it is however placebo. Choose you treatments wisely.
http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/264/
My girlfriend mum is Chinese and has a jar of dried sparrow saliva, costs a lot of money. Another thing he has use on my girlfriend was the droppings of some animal or other. ****ing B*****s.
http://www.savetherhino.org/eTargetSRINM/site/655/default.aspx
http://www.badscience.net/2010/02/how-do-you-regulate-wu/
🙁 I'd not want to support it in any way, but that's just my opinion. (Sweeping generalisation:) No one in any sort of pharma seems to have any morals...
The thing with herbs is,
In the western world we test all these herbs. The ones that work we call "medicine" and the ones that don't get thrown away.
Taking herbal medicine over tablets is like eating organic vegetables. Same net effect with a little less processing in the middle.
My thoughts are that Chinese Medicine has been around for 1000's of years, where as western medicine is still fairly new (comparatively) - so I can see that chosing one over the other is flawed as both should have their merits.
Tiger's dick, twice a day - you'll never get ill, ever again
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Taking herbal medicine over tablets is like eating organic vegetables. Same net effect with a little less processing in the middle.
Except that in the case of tablets you'll get a specific dose without any contaminants, the same cannot be said for a bunch of herbs.
My thoughts are that Chinese Medicine has been around for 1000's of years, where as western medicine is still fairly new (comparatively) - so I can see that chosing one over the other is flawed as both should have their merits.
Appeals to antiquity don't make for good medicine. Prior to the adoption of western style medicine, life expectancy was poor in China. It only improved once western methods were adopted.
[url= http://techskeptic.blogspot.com/2007/11/ancient-chinese-secret.html ]Life expectancies.[/url]
Moreover,
By that argument we should still be using trepanning and leeches. That's been around for -ages-, so it must be fantastic!
My thoughts are that Chinese Medicine has been around for 1000's of years, where as western medicine is still fairly new (comparatively)
Yes good point I have noticed that over time our understanding of the world has not improved much and this same old flat earth,with the four elements of earth, wind, water and fire has remained unchanged by our search for knowledge. I find Chinese medicine a bit modern for my tastes and just get the shaman to offer a sacrifice when I am ill. HTH
As the proud owner of a Chinese wife, I believe that a genuine Chinese medicine practioner will be able to offer you something to treat many illnesses.
The problem is that a lot of the people working in highstreet Chinese doctors have one qualification which got them the job - they're Chinese.
You need to find a genuine practioner.
Although don't walk in with a brain tumor and expect a cup of herbal tea to magic it away. A bad back, a nasty rash, bruises, a cold or flu - that's the sort of stuff you should be going there with.
I suffer from severe tinnitus (which last year included crippling dizzy spells), Western medicine can't offer me a thing - other than some medicine that made me sleepy and didn't stop it from coming back.
My wife's mum gave me some herbal tea which tasted like bins, and I didn't get so dizzy anymore.
Don't write it off just because you don't understand it...sometimes Western medicine can't give you what you need.
When I was on stress pills (yeah, I know), the ones the doctors provided were no where near the strength of the ones I purchased from the Chinese doctors.
Tasted vile and did the job. Some things it works wonders with other not so much.
That could be down to anything - you can't attribute it to western medicine - it could be down to socio-economic factors, diet or even political effects. There was so much turbulence during the 20th century that there is no way you can just put life expectancy down to medicine.
If TCM doesn't work, why have western medical insitutions started adopting acupuncture?
If TCM doesn't work, why have western medical insitutions started adopting acupuncture?
Because it's cheap and people are willing to pay for it.
and it works...
and it works...
Prove it.
I have had acupunture to treat my tinnitus...I now don't get woken up in the middle of the night by it.
You could come and watch me sleep if you like to get proof, but my wife won't like it.
So are you saying that we can't learn anything from Chinese or any other countries experiences? It's all codswallop because we didn't invent it and we don't understand it? Sounds like western arrogance to me.
BTW - I've not said I was going to ditch western medicine or rely mainly on TCM but that I was interested to understand what benefits it offers.
I'm still yet to see any evidence to support either side of the argument relating to illnesses such as those mentioned by McHamish - A bad back, a nasty rash, bruises, a cold or flu
and it works...Prove it.
Prove it doesn't
Perhaps it's naturally got better, that's not unknown, but it seemed to work.
Although you're supposed to go back regularly to get treatments which I haven't. I've been considering EFT instead as I can do that myself.
[i]Although don't walk in with a brain tumor and expect a cup of herbal tea to magic it away. A bad back, a nasty rash, bruises, a cold or flu - that's the sort of stuff you should be going there with.[/i]
You mean stuff that mostly disappears on it's own accord? 🙂
I'm still yet to see any evidence to support either side of the argument relating to illnesses such as those mentioned by McHamish - A bad back, a nasty rash, bruises, a cold or flu
Does anyone use Deep Heat to treat a bad back for example?
The active ingredient is called methyl salicylate...the Chinese call it 'yun ling shan' or wintergreen.
I have had acupunture to treat my tinnitus...I now don't get woken up in the middle of the night by it.
With respect, that's the sort of flawed thinking that keeps Homeopathy in business.
Some afflictions simply go away over time. (I had a cold, so I rubbed my chest with hazelnuts and then buried them in the back yard, and what do you know, a few days later my cold cleared right up!)
The placebo effect is also very powerful (and oft misunderstood). You think it's going to work, or want it to, so it does. I expect prayer works in a similar fashion.
I'm not saying acupuncture doesn't work; I don't believe there's much in it personally but I don't think there's enough research been done on it to prove conclusively one way or the other. What I'm saying is, "I had tinnitus, had acupuncture and it went away" in isolation proves absolutely nothing other than you got better.
So are you saying that we can't learn anything from Chinese or any other countries experiences? It's all codswallop because we didn't invent it and we don't understand it? Sounds like western arrogance to me
No, that's not what people are saying. The problem that it's a load of ad-hoc traditions with no basis in science. Bring on the double blind trials, my mind is fully open.
It's got nothing to do with being anti-Chinese either. If a Chinese pharma company came out with a fully tested and effective drug, then that'd be fine with me. They may have done plenty already, I don't know 🙂
True.
I didn't go back for another treatment and the tinnitus has got worse again (it's never gone away completely).
That could just be a coincidence.
Western medicine can't treat it (well they could operate but that might result in permanent and complete deafness! At least the ringing will have gone away!), so I'd rather try something than just accept it.
I think this:
Does anyone use Deep Heat to treat a bad back for example?The active ingredient is called methyl salicylate...the Chinese call it 'yun ling shan' or wintergreen.
... addresses this:
So are you saying that we can't learn anything from Chinese or any other countries experiences? It's all codswallop because we didn't invent it and we don't understand it? Sounds like western arrogance to me.
... quite nicely.
Western medicine will have influences from all over the world, and is constantly researching this stuff.
That could just be a coincidence.
It could be. It could be the acupuncture does work, or it could be the placebo effect. Actually, it could be both of the last two - acupuncture [i]does [/i]work, purely because of the placebo effect.
It'd be interesting to see what'd happen if you arranged for a few sessions where sometimes you got 'real' acupuncture and sometimes someone stuck a few needles in random places without telling you which they were doing.
As the proud [b]owner[/b] of a Chinese wife,
You are the 19th Century and I claim my £5
I assumed that was what the cool kids call "humour," n'est-ce pas?
It'd be interesting to see what'd happen if you arranged for a few sessions where sometimes you got 'real' acupuncture and sometimes someone stuck a few needles in random places without telling you which they were doing.
Well there is no agreement as to what "real" acupuncture is however trials on needle locations have been done many times, and surprise surprise, it doesn't matter where you stick the needles or even if you actualy use needles to pierce the skin the effect is the same.
Hasn't that already been done? The acupuncture blind study?
I've got two acupuncturists I see - one I see via Bupa and one privately (meaning I pay rather than my company)
The Bupa one is OK, but the private one is awesome! He really gets things going and most things are much better after one treatment - including numerous injuries where I'd been seeing my Bupa Ap regularly. I don't see him straight away as he is so busy he can't fit me in for weeks so I use the Bupa one until I can get into see him - well worth the wait.
Plus you can really feel the difference in that I jump off the table when the private Ap puts the needle in, the bupa one is just putting the needle in with no real affect.
The difference is the Private one trained for a number of years in Beijing. The Bupa one didn't.
The Private one is also working with numerous health bodies including the NHS and has carried out a number of successsful clinical trials on how Ap helps cancer and other patients. He also has been involved with the British Olympic squads. He is awesome! and a lot of his understanding is based on his knowledge of chinese medicine.
The difference is the Private one trained for a number of years in Beijing. The Bupa one didn't.
The difference is, the Private one hurts more so you believe it's doing more good. And, hey, it is!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Mechanism_of_the_effect
Well there is no agreement as to what "real" acupuncture is however trials on needle locations have been done many times, and surprise surprise, it doesn't matter where you stick the needles or even if you actualy use needles to pierce the skin the effect is the same.
Personally disagree - there is a BIG difference.
has carried out a number of successsful clinical trials on how Ap helps cancer and other patients
Really?
As they say on Wikipedia, citation needed.
Personally disagree - there is a BIG difference.
... based on what?
The difference is the Private one trained for a number of years in Beijing. The Bupa one didn't.The difference is, the Private one hurts more so you believe it's doing more good. And, hey, it is!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Mechanism_of_the_effect
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LOL! So why don't I get better when I had it first with the Bupa Ap?
... based on what?
My own experiences..
And how many times have you had Ap where you could compare good with bad? LOL!
If only I was willing to let someone stick needles into me in random places!
The NHS ENT consultant has told me that my tinnitus is caused by inner ear fluid pressure, it's in the balance receptors apparently that's why I sometimes get dizzy (look up menieres). Also some of the ringing I hear is apparently blood rushing through blood vessels in my ear.
They gave medicine to treat it...but unfortunately it only made me sleepy and the tinnitus didn't go away.
The ENT consultant was an expert in tinnitus but he can't really offer me any more, other than to give up coffee, chocolate, cheese, and cut down on salt.
Chinese medicine claims that tinnitus is caused by an imbalance in kidney 'chi', from a quick search papers were published (the Neijing Suwen) by the chinese in 100 BC detailing this and the associated treatments. As you all know your kidneys filter your blood for impurities and help regulate blood pressure. The pills that the NHS doctor gave me were supposed to regulate the blood pressure in my inner ear (i could understand how it could be that specific, but who was I to argue)
Anyway, much of the chinese medicine treatments for tinnitus are related to healthy kidneys and regulating blood pressure. And my wife's mum told me ages ago I should give up coffee and start drinking green tea (although that seems to be the cure for anything wrong with me!).
To be honest it all seems too much of a cooincidence that Western and Eastern medicine seems to point to similar, if not the same causes.
Unless we have some very old pharmaceutical scientists on STW, I don't really think anyone can categorically state that Eastern medicine has not influenced Western medicine, and that Eastern medicine is complete nonsense.
Has anyone seen Once upon a Time in China with Jet Li? It's about a Chinese kung fu master called Wong Fei Hung (he did exist and was born in 1847 according to wiki), he was also a chinese medicine expert. In these films they had scenes where western scientists went to his lectures on Chinese medicine and the flow of chi. I don't think this was too far from the truth, and I expect Western scientists and doctors did go to China to learn all about Eastern medicine.
Oh...and the 'owner of a Chinese wife' comment was an attempt at being funny.
I don't claim to own her...although she's married to me and no one else can have her so go get your own.
Er, the human body is a bit more complicated than 'it's to do with blood pressure, and kidneys are too, so therefore poking kidneys cures tinnitis'