[Closed] China not so bad afterall..

Erm, but:

Instead, the cables show that [b]Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters[/b] outside the centre of Beijing, as they fought their way towards the square from the west of the city.

Sorry, don't really see your point... 😕

nside the square itself, a Chilean diplomat was on hand to give his US counterparts an eyewitness account of the final hours of the pro-democracy movement.
"He watched the military enter the square and did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops which entered the square were actually armed only with anti-riot gear – truncheons and wooden clubs; they were backed up by armed soldiers," a cable from July 1989 said.
The diplomat, who was positioned next to a Red Cross station inside Tiananmen Square, said a line of troops surrounded him and "panicked" medical staff into fleeing. However, he said that there was "no mass firing into the crowd of students at the monument".

Interesting. I'm not going to pass opinion about the Chinese. But it speaks volumes about the politically motivated misinformation we are fed by our Govt and media. 45 minutes anyone?

But it speaks volumes about the politically motivated misinformation we are fed by our Govt and media.

Everyone has a bias, a viewpoint, an agenda - no matter how small, how broad. If you take a single source for news, you only get one view. All news is biased in some way or another to a greater or lesser extent. What you see depends on where you are standing.

Is your point about media, the government? It is the same everywhere in the world.

Which "politically motivated misinformation" about Tiananmen Square, specifically?

"no mass firing into the crowd of students [b]at the monument[/b]".

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_to_the_People%27s_Heroes ]Monument[/url] ? the whole square.

In a completely trivial and unrelated matter, my opinion of the free-press turn a down-turn when my friends' accident was "sexed-up" by the BBC - teletext news, would you believe.

In brief: they were on a tourist hot-air ballooning jolly in Wilts, then the landing went a bit squiffy as they clipped an airfield building, resulting in a some bruising and light concussion; 3 went to A&E for checks. Teletext reported that parachutists in a barrage balloon had the accident and 6 went to hospital - nuts

In the Tienanmen Square, the BBC journalist later admitted his report was misleading.

Don't believe what they told-ya. [dons tin hat]

But.. if the Chinese government won't tell their side of the story either, who are we to believe?

From the same article linked by the OP

Instead, the fiercest fighting took place at Muxidi, around three miles west of the square, where thousands of people had gathered spontaneously on the night of June 3 to halt the advance of the army.

According to the Tiananmen Papers, a collection of internal Communist party files, soldiers started using live ammunition at around 10.30pm, after trying and failing to disperse the crowd with tear gas and rubber bullets. Incredulous, the crowd tried to escape but were hampered by its own roadblocks.

Ha ha ha, we all know your agenda ilovegoats

The OP attempts to draw attention to misreporting by western journalists....by misreporting his own source!!! The uprising was STILL violently repressed, just not in the location we previously believed it to be.

What.a.knob.

Ha ha ha, we all know your agenda ilovegoats

The OP attempts to draw attention to misreporting by western journalists....by misreporting his own source!!! The uprising was STILL violently repressed, just not in the location we previously believed it to be.

What.a.knob.

If we did the same thing in London they would start to shoot at us, like they did in Ireland on bloody Sunday..id rather be a knob than a sheep.

Give up love, you make no sense to anyone but yourself

yossarian - Member
Give up love, you make no sense to anyone but yourself

You just have a low IQ and thus the inablity to proses complex ideas or thoughts.

Don't believe what they told-ya. [dons tin hat]

You must believe every word of both the Guardian news paper and its readers or you are a truly wicked and evil person 🙂

Xxx

Don't mistake conviction for intelligence my dear.

[i]You just have a low IQ and thus the inablity to [b]proses[/b] complex ideas or thoughts[/i]

Doncha hate it when that happens?

It's dislexic I think. Doesn't excuse the amusing naïveté and relentless ignorance, merely compliments it.

Fact is that were were lied to and that there may not have been a tiananmen square massacre. Nobody is saying that there wasnt a massacre, just that we were lied to about the location.

Google video: Tank Man ([url= http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2300254722104314948# ]link[/url]). Don't come to too many conclusions, just gather and dissect information.

You know what you need to know and we decide what you need to know, you also shut up ❗ and do what you are told, slaves 💡

YOU SAVVE! ❓

Good or bad it is a nation with more than 1 billion population. All the Chinese govt got to do is to offer those people to other nations and ban them from returning forever. i.e. we, the Dear Leaders, want to cull our own people but if you object you can feed them for the rest of their life and you can have them as we still have many of them around.

No point objecting to what others are doing unless there is an offer to take those people up. Sometimes you let the Dear Leaders deal with their own problems. 🙄 Or you can make Price Philip's dream come true. 😆

Fact is that were were lied to

What is your point exactly? our media is bad because they got the wrong location when the Chinese government violently repressing their own people who were after democracy?

Well thanks to this link I am happy to change my view now and accept that the communist state of china is in fact not repressing its people and shooting them in the streets when they object and ask for democracy They are not bad on human rights , dont imprison political objectors without trial, have a proper parliamentary democracy. at least you gave uup on that one eh
You really do make yourself look foolish over china - hate communism- as bad as Nazis eh yet you love China coz it was "nice" when you visited.... I honestly dont know what point you are trying to make here do you?

Yadda yadda yadda etc

What the yardie said!

No massacre Tiananmen Square ? ....... you must be absolutely devastated iloveyourears 😯

You've made it very clear on here that whilst you reject both socialism and communism, you nevertheless deeply admire China because their police/security forces can carry out extrajudicial killings with complete impunity. You suggested that we should take a leaf out of their book and celebrate the fact that a copper killed Ian Tomlinson.

According to you in China, quote :

[i]"the police would beat ur head in with iron bar if you did. Needles to say i felt much safer there"[/i]

So what is there left for you to admire of China, now that it turns out that the Chinese security forces are just a bunch of bighearted softies ? ...... you must be totally gutted mate 😐

Of course criticism of the self-serving brutal thugs who rule China isn't based solely on the events surrounding Tiananmen Square, events which were almost certainly exaggerated by the western media, they tend to do that, rather than play them down. And whatever happened or didn't happen at Tiananmen Square doesn't somehow transform China into a land of tolerance and compassion. It is still a country which brutally and violently crushes all dissent and ruthlessly persecutes those choose to follow their religious convictions. Sometimes they carry out the most barbaric repression against people who simply want to 'meditate' ......... look at their treatment of the followers of Falun Gong for example.

So I can't see how anyone can simply absolve the ruling thugs of all their repressive actions and claim that "China [is] not so bad afterall". China has undoubtedly improved considerably in the last 22 years since Tiananmen Square, and the government is far more responsive to the needs of the people compared to during Mao's era. But it still has a long way to go - they still carry out extrajudicial killings and also execute people perfectly legally for crimes such as attempting to smuggle silver.

'gears, I suggest that next time you visit China, you stand in a large public place with Tibetan and Buddhist flags and a poster expressing support for the Dhali Llama and the indigenous people of Tibet, then see what those nice tolerant policemen do. I would hope you have really, really good health insurance. Clot.

As far as I am concerned they can nuke half their population if they want to free up the world resources and space. They can have a self cull exercise if they want ... 🙄

I suggest you really really Do Not want them to be democratic put it this way. Let them evolve by themselves but if you try to encourage them your way of life then be prepared for them to dictate their way of life onto you and they will, with brutality, after all it is China. Capitalism is in their blood but only being held back since Mao.

There are around 7,000 billionaires, not millionaires but billionaires, in Shanghai alone (yesterday BBC programme on big city or something like by that bloke Andrew something ...) and they are only half way returning to their root of capitalism. Imagine full capitalism ... no one will be able to compete with them at all.

chewkw - Member

As far as I am concerned they can nuke half their population if they want to free up the world resources and space.

Just half ? That's unlike you chewwy........are you turning into a bleeding heart liberal ?

ernie_lynch - Member
Just half ? That's unlike you chewwy........are you turning into a bleeding heart liberal ?

D'oh! Bloody STW nancy boys are turning me "liberal" ... no you don't.

Okay ... I mean as a starter ... nuke half ... then nuke their neighbours and their neighbours and theirs ... all by half ... let the earth regenerate as it's getting parasitic. 🙄

There are around 7,000 billionaires, not millionaires but billionaires, in Shanghai alone (yesterday BBC programme on big city or something like by that bloke Andrew something ...) and they are only half way returning to their root of capitalism. Imagine full capitalism ... no one will be able to compete with them at all.

At all times that money still belongs to the state, piss the government off and they will just take it all away from you and then have you and your family shot. Yes in many ways it is better.. 🙂

look at their treatment of the followers of Falun Gong for example.

ilovemygears - Member

At all times that money still belongs to the state, piss the government off and they will just take it all away from you and then have you and your family shot. Yes in many ways it is better..

You mean Dear Leaders? Yes, all the money belong to Dear Leaders and they are all in the billionaire club so I doubt they will commit suicide by pissing each other off but rather it is easier to "gang bang" the outsiders, and I am sure they will turn you into organic fertiliser if you piss them off.

look at their treatment of the followers of Falun Gong for example.

Yes, because they are not in the billionaire's club so practically they are disposable as organic fertiliser. If they are able to buy the billionaire's club then the chance of their god/belief being 100% true is definite and yours is shite.

I suggest you really really Do Not want them to be democratic put it this way. Let them evolve by themselves but if you try to encourage them your way of life then be prepared for them to dictate their way of life onto you and they will, with brutality, after all it is China. Capitalism is in their blood but only being held back since Mao.

you dont understand middle class liberals do you, there right about every thing. To them their way of life is the only legitimate one.

I am still lost as to what point you are trying to make here ....is there a principle at work here because it is quite well hidden from view so far.

ilovemygears - Member
you dont understand middle class liberals do you, there right about every thing. To them their way of life is the only legitimate one.

They, the middle class, are paupers by comparison if they think that they are on level terms.

yes look, at some of the things they believe, the world does not need any more stupid bull shit religions

You obviously have no idea what Falun Gong is. You do not need to have any religious views at all to practice their system of chi gung, yet it is banned in China. The ban has nothing to do with "religion" and everything to do with the supremacy of the communist party. Falun Gong was hugely popular and fast growing, and it included a considerable amount of communist party members - some of them quite high ranking. The decrepit thugs who rule China considered it intolerable that a movement over which they had no control, should exist - they therefore brutally suppressed it.

couldn't care less what china does to them

And I think that sums up everything anyone needs to know about you.

You obviously have no idea what Falun Gong is

yes i do. Interesting fact according to the evil cult .... ' in the afterlife, the paradises are divided by race.' They believe children from mixed marriages cant go to the after life.
secondly have you seen there logo, in its centre is a swastika...

All religion is stupid and harmful and will have to be erased if the human race is to evolve.

The Swastika predates National Socialism by a couple of millenia btw

And I love the way that 'Liberal Middle Class' is invoked as a way to dismiss an argument, is an easy way to spot a wingnut on shaky ground.

They believe children from mixed marriages cant go to the after life.

Ah well that's me stuffed then. 😥

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

~4000BC

[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Archaeologicalrecord [/url]

yes elf and slowly, i know its a very old symbol, but what about the racially dived after life, you're views on that pleas id love to hear em. Also the cult stared in the early 90's the modern meaning of that symbol would have been fully understood, but they used it any way...

ah the swastika not a sign from the east used since antiquity misappropriated by the nazis 🙄
Can you reference your claims as I fear most of them are BS without some sort of way of corroborating them - you know like this claim on chinese democracy

actually the peoples party rule the country, there is a huge parliament and votes often go both ways.

so elf and move very slowly. Instead of communicating to me you're view on the racial dived after life. You instead try and turn the question around by questioning the validity of my statement, that's fine hear is the links see for youre self. But i like to do my own research from more than one source my self, so why dont you do the same and then explain to me you're views on a racial dived after life... 🙂

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f02.html

http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=169

and good old wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Controversies

read and get back to me 🙂

[url= http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/zhuzhou-hunan-self-immolation-protesting-forced-demolition.html ]China's so 'not so bad' that people are setting themselves on fire in celebration[/url]

WARNING - Contains pics and links to videos showing a man setting himself on fire.

Falun Gong is prosecuted because they grew larger without towing the Dear Leaders ways of prosperity thy Dear Leaders and they did not manage to pay their dues to some regional Dear Leaders to establish "quan-si" (relationship) i.e. no money no religion. Pay dues good religion.

As for afterlife etc if they pay Dear Leaders then we see the birth of a new religion ... pay first otherwise shite.

racial dived after life

Has no bearing on anything. He also believes he can fly and travel between dimensions. This doesn't mean his followers are fair game, and the Chinese authorities didn't step in because his abhorrent views, from your link:

July 28: China issues an international arrest warrant against Li Hongzhi, accusing him of seeking to overturn the regime

racial dived after life
Has no bearing on anything. He also believes he can fly and travel between dimensions. This doesn't mean his followers are fair game

yes...yes it does...

from you link again

According to Mr. Li, the offspring of mixed race unions are therefore “intellectually incomplete” or “with an incomplete body.” In such cases, only he, Master Li, can help and “take care of it” (i.e., resolve the “incomplete” state). However, that can be done only if “such a person wants to practice cultivation.”

the full quote for refernece as it seems to contradict itself somewhat is

In Mr. Li’s worldview mixed-race people are part of a plot, contrived by the evil extraterrestrials. “By mixing the races of humans, the aliens make humans cast off gods,” he told a gathering in Switzerland in 1998.

“Mixed races” are supposedly excluded from the “truth” and “have lost their roots, as if nobody in the paradise will take care of them. They belong to nowhere, and no places would accept them…the higher levels do not recognize such a human race.”

According to Mr. Li, the offspring of mixed race unions are therefore “intellectually incomplete” or “with an incomplete body.” In such cases, only he, Master Li, can help and “take care of it” (i.e., resolve the “incomplete” state). However, that can be done only if “such a person wants to practice cultivation.”

ilovemygears - Member

racial dived after life
Has no bearing on anything. He also believes he can fly and travel between dimensions. This doesn't mean his followers are fair game

yes...yes it does...

So what other beliefs is it okay to imprison, subject to hard labour and kill people for?

So what other beliefs is it okay to imprison, subject to hard labour and kill people for?

well mate i go grab a beer and make a list if you really want...

Kettle's on, who's got the biccies?

Either he is a bit bonkers or piss poor reporting. i suspect a good measure of both tbh.

nope its what he really thinks, feel free to use ur own sources.. it ****ed up, totaly ****ed up, like all religion

So they can get in it is just harder.

right tell me what you think about that particular belief.. 🙂 and then tell me why you think banning a group that preaches that sort of shit is a bad thing.

nope its what he really thinks

right tell me what you think about that particular belief..

and then tell me why you think banning a group that preaches that sort of shit is a bad thing

Remember it is is middle class liberals who are always right yet you are confident [ arrogant ] enough in your own flimsy rhetoric [ just like China] to actually oppress people for your beliefs....tell me again why I should be more scared of them than you/China?

Elfin - that elephant statue is about a 5 minute walk from my flat. Do you reckon it's safe to sleep with the light off??

I think* this dude might actually learn something from this thread.

*I mean 'hope.'

Do you reckon it's safe to sleep with the light off??

No, for it is in the darkness, when you cannot see, that They will come.

[i]Do you reckon it's safe to sleep with the light off??[/i]

No, for it is in the darkness, when you cannot see, that They will come.

Well, that's a Carlsberg elephant, so I hope at least if They come they'll bring beer!!

ilovemygears - Member

totaly * up, like all religion

😀 You really are priceless mate........you come out with stuff like "totaly * up, like all religion" and yet the first link you provide to condemn Falun Gong is written by an American religious nut !!!

According to Apologetics Index :

[i]"The goal of AI-Renewal is to exhort and build up by promoting balance in teaching and practices, in an atmosphere of Christian fellowship. In doing so, we're guided by the following Scriptures"[/i]

Also according Apologetics Index, the Catholic Church is also a "cult" as well as Falun Gong ! Maybe all Catholics should be rounded up and imprisoned leaving just American Christian fundamentalists free to spread the bible ? !

Your second link is provided by the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a body founded the Politburo of the Communist Party of China.......so obviously a fair and unbiased source then ! 😀

And finally the Wikipedia link which you provide states :

[i]"Li's fantastic claims seem to be of little theological importance, since Falun Gong practice does not require unquestioning acceptance of all of Li's teachings, and there is no overt emphasis on dogmatically enforcing orthodoxy"[/i]

As Falun Gong is a global phenomena I can confirm this as I have attended Falun Gong sessions. The sessions involved only chi gung, and some rather difficult and challenging stances (simular to yoga) [u]there was no mention of religion or anything religious whatsoever.[/u]

I loved your reference to the "swastika" btw..........your desperate attempts to clutch at straws and scrape the bottom of the barrel is truly impressive ! 😀

There's a serious lack of perspective and a genuine inability to construct a robust argument. Shame really cos there could be an interesting debate buried in here somewhere. Ilovemygears isn't going to find it though, not enough mental rigour.

yoss' - you mean he's a bit thick? 😆

Apparently he is a History graduate with a 2:1 😯

yoss' - you mean he's a bit thick?

Young, opinionated and lazy I suspect. Not a crime, but does mean you'll get your arse handed to you fairly frequently.

Besides intelligence is no measure of character anyway. It's a pity if someone is stupid and unpleasant though, what a waste!

you mean he's a bit thick?

Slightly more than "a bit" I reckon........I've just had another look at the first link he provides to back up his claims. This is their "Statement of Faith" :

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/statement-of-faith

So basically he's asking us to believe a bunch of American Creationists who claim that the world was created in 6 days.

The stupidity of the guy is breathtaking.

he could just be a very good stealth ninja troll* 😀

*but i doubt it