[Closed] Child's play is not, well, child's play, apparently

Mmm.. I can see from the outside it may seem ridulous and as a parent I never needed much help but in hindsight I could have done things better and play is an important part of a childs development.
I know people who have no idea how to relate to their children never mind "play" with them.
I dont think there should be a govenment department however but I dont think we should assume it comes naturally.

Half of the parents surveyed say that they need help and instruction on how to play with their children. Really?

I [i]suspect[/i] many of them will be hand-wringers who are over-thinking it.

i.e.

should I let my daughter play with dolls and a toy kitchen or is that imprinting gender stereotypes?

should I let little Timmy play at Cowboys or is that glamourising violence?

how should promote numeracy skills through play?

if I teach her to share toys but other children take advantage by snatching and not sharing then will she become a doormat? How can I teach her to be assertive enough to stand up for herself, but not overly so?

Yada yada parental angst

(Note: yes I am one such handwringer)

The figures showed that 59% of fathers and 42% of mothers were so busy that they had fewer than five hours a week to play with their children.

I suspect this is the big issue.

In related news - National trust launch their "Fifty things to do before you're 11 3/4" campaign.

9. Eat an apple straight from a tree

Give the apple a wash before eating it and look out for maggot holes
Ask the owner of the tree for permission beforehand

🙄

AAAAGGGHHHH!

19. Swing on a rope swing

Find out more about [url= http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fce-rope-swings-dens-fires.pdf/$FILE/fce-rope-swings-dens-fires.pdf ]how to have fun on rope swings safely (PDF/ 448KB)[/url]

👿

[i]How can I teach her to be assertive enough to stand up for herself, but not overly so?[/i]

She will, generally, work it out for herself.

My kid comes charging into our bedroom just after 6 am. Jumps on the bed between me and missus and says, "Look daddy that's my foot!" holding said appendage triumphantly in the air. "Where's your foot daddy?".

"Here it is", says I pushing it from under the covers.

"Where's mummy's foot?", he continues.

Ensue 15 mins of foot-showing hilarity that had me and missus genuinley pi**ing ourselves laughing

Number 51. Show someone your foot*

*No H&S issues identified

Many of the things parents worry about are not important, but conversely many things that are are sometimes missed.

You don't need to stress too much about whether or not you let them play with toy guns imo, but you do need to spend time with them, give them attention, let them call the shots and don't give them tons of instructions and rules all the time, that kind of thing.

From what I've seen there are parents out there who don't do a good job, so some guidance might be a good idea.

How can I teach her to be assertive enough to stand up for herself, but not overly so?

She will, generally, work it out for herself.

I dunno, a great many adults haven't.

She will, generally, work it out for herself.

Hmmm... we seem to meet many [s]little brats[/s] other children at softplay that haven't. 😐

From what I've seen there are parents out there who don't do a good job, so some guidance might be a good idea.

Agreed. Sad but true.

In days of yore everyone had close family nearby, possibly even in the same house, to offer support and guidance. These days families tend to be spread across the country so that aspect is missing. And of course busy parents are both trying to hold down jobs while raising kids, which is hard going.

Ensue 15 mins of foot-showing hilarity that had me and missus genuinley pi**ing ourselves laughing

Sad but true, I was at a training course at work where some people were implying that putting your kid in a position where he/she might potentially hurt themselves could be construed as child abuse.

Clearing up bo**ocks like that would be useful as I am sure that many people keep their kids away from anything remotely dangerous out of fear of a call from the social services.

A lot of parents do put in a lot of time and effort, but they don't seem to understand child psychology very well.

suspect many of them will be hand-wringers who are over-thinking it.

i.e.

should I let my daughter play with dolls and a toy kitchen or is that imprinting gender stereotypes?

should I let little Timmy play at Cowboys or is that glamourising violence?

how should promote numeracy skills through play?

if I teach her to share toys but other children take advantage by snatching and not sharing then will she become a doormat? How can I teach her to be assertive enough to stand up for herself, but not overly so?

Yada yada parental angst

(Note: yes I am one such handwringer)

Will be true for some - but the real issue are those who are just [i]not interested[/i].

There is a section of the community who show absolutely no interest in their children, short of sitting them in front of the TV / games console etc and having no interaction with them.

On a week day, I spend about 4 hours with my lad. And all day on a weekend (unlessI can live with the guilt and go riding)

My kid comes charging into our bedroom just after 6 am. Jumps on the bed between me and missus and says, "Look daddy that's my foot!" holding said appendage triumphantly in the air. "Where's your foot daddy?".

We have similar, but these days he wants to talk and sing to the baby in mummy's tummy and enquire about it's size and when it will pop out. Occasionaly he even asks how...

There are plenty of adults who attend courses / follow guidance that teach them how to develop their own 'play' already, without just getting on with it and learning by trial and error. - Just look at the number of climbing courses / mountain biking skills courses, etc. Seems that a bit of guidance to help with play can be beneficial ?

I have met some folk recently who are just not fit enough physically and sometimes mentally to be able to keep up with their kids.

They decide the kid is hyperactive, get them drugged up and so the cycle continues.

When I've worked with the kids, I have found them to be extremely bright, desperate for trust and responsibility, and even a bit of discipline. I tell them off! They just need to DO something.

Given this

There is a section of the community who show absolutely no interest in their children, short of sitting them in front of the TV / games console etc and having no interaction with them

Should we be dedicating large public resource to this minority? I certainly resent that taxpayer revenue is spent 'teaching' us all how to be 'good parents'. Its lowest common denominator thinking, prays on new parents natural insecurities (i.e. I'm I doing right by my child) and IMO is the very worst example of the 'nanny state'.

Sad but true, I was at a training course at work where some people were implying that putting your kid in a position where he/she might potentially hurt themselves could be construed as child abuse

Who are these brain dead people?!... Whoever they are, they seem to have the ear of the authorities.

Should we be dedicating large public resource to this minority? I

We already are - in schools. Kids in mrs rkk01's area start school at 3. Very many are not potty trained, not socialised and utterly feral. The resources required to deal with these kids is substantial - both in terms of disruption in mainstream classes and requirement for places in specialist units.

There are people who just don't bother with their children or pay them much attention.

Then there are those who can't let go, even a little bit, and let their children have some freedom - freedom to take risks, get cold, wet, muddy, hungry etc.

When taking my children to the park I see this quite a lot - parents following their 3 and 4 year olds around the park, bundling them off to the car at the first sign of rain.

Given them a bit of space for goodness sake.

Given them a bit of space for goodness sake.

absolutely

and go riding all day, don't feel guilty, they'll be there when you get back...

let their children have some freedom - freedom to take risks, get cold, wet, muddy, hungry etc.

Certainly don't let them climb a mountain...

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Oh I agree rkk01, Mrs Pollock works for local autority in a dept. that deals with such issues.

The resources required to deal with these kids is substantial - both in terms of disruption in mainstream classes and requirement for places in specialist units.

Perhaps not *every child should be 'on the autistic spectrum' (or whatever it is these days) as an excuse for poor concentration/behaviour/spelling/verbal skills/numeracy skills/time keeping/toilet 'skills'. (delete as appropriate)!

Who are these brain dead people?!... Whoever they are, they seem to have the ear of the authorities.

FE College middle managers for the most part.

Should we be dedicating large public resource to this minority?

Its probably cheaper to educate than for the NHS to pay for the fallout in terms of poor health and obesity.

some people were implying that putting your kid in a position where he/she might potentially hurt themselves could be construed as child abuse

I was at [u]softplay[/u] the other week with our [i]not-quite-two[/i] year old.

She was having a great time climbing up a big soft ladder thing then deliberately "slipping" at the top and sliding all the way back down again on her front.

I got quite noticeable tuts and evils from the other parents. 😕
Especially when I joined in 😀

Should we be dedicating large public resource to this minority?

If they are the ones who need it then yes. A lot of taxation gets spent on minorities. This is a good thing imo.

I'm a big beliver in 'the greatest good for the greatest number' and allocation of resources to ensure this.

Not spending 'millions' on initiatives that essentially are 'teaching' the majority how to suck eggs!

I certainly resent being 'told' through various pieces of quasi-legislation how to bring up children/lead my life.

I certainly resent being 'told' through various pieces of quasi-legislation how to bring up children/lead my life.

Did you miss the bit in the OP that said half of parents surveyed are asking for this help? If you don't want it, don't use it: no-one's forcing you to.

Perhaps not *every child should be 'on the autistic spectrum' (or whatever it is these days) as an excuse for poor concentration/behaviour/spelling/verbal skills/numeracy skills/time keeping/toilet 'skills'. (delete as appropriate)!

Mmmm, mrs rkk01 works in a specialist unit for ASD / speech difficulties. The places are very sought after and the unit is overstretched - particularly with "unoffical", informal placements from mainstream.

The "unofficials" have not been assessed by the LEA / NHS as having specified health / developmental issues. They are the feral kids whose behaviour cannot be contained within a mainstream setting. One particular specimen has been causing a lot of stress - totally destroyed classroom - other kids had to be evacuated for safety, feral kid throwing furniture around, smashing up desks, chairs, shelving. Same kid has assaulted staff - all at 5 years old.

I certainly resent being 'told' through various pieces of quasi-legislation how to bring up children/lead my life

I'm happy to be told something important that I already know, if someone else who doesn't know is also told.

I don't resent the 'don't drink and drive' ads, despite the fact that I never drink and drive.

national play strategy? How about banning parents from driving their kids to school instead?

Again, rkk01 I agree resources are stretched to breaking point. But this brings me to question - why have the numbers of children with 'special educational needs' increased exponentially over the last 15+ years?

Has this generation of children suddenly become more 'needy'?

I would argue it is the widening of definitions of various conditions that has had the biggest effect on burgeoning numbers of children with these conditions...? That is not to say that there aren't children who desperately need intervention (as you point out).

Probably thinking more generally about the subject as a whole ransos rather than directly in response to the OP. But when I said

I'm a big beliver in 'the greatest good for the greatest number' and allocation of resources to ensure this

I don't resent the 'don't drink and drive' ads, despite the fact that I never drink and drive

Not the same thing Molgrips, drink driving is an offence contrary to law.

Would you take so kindly to being told how to/when you should/shouldn't drive from a variety of 'experts' whos conflicting advice changes from one year to the next?... you probably wouldn't mind, but I take exception to that level of intrusion.

I wouldn't mind advice and insight from other people with experience.

That's different to 'being told how to do something'.

I don't know that a 'play strategy' is going to be handing out instructions and dictating things to us. It shouldn't, at any rate. If done well it could be good, if not then not. Like most things. I've read nothing to suggest that it would be intrusive.

Would you take so kindly to being told how to/when you should/shouldn't drive from a variety of 'experts' whos conflicting advice changes from one year to the next?

I suspect that the survey question was something along the lines of:

[i]"Would you find it beneficial to have expert advice on playing with your children in a way that makes them happy and improves their confidence, social skills and future prospects?"[/i]

And funnily enough, a majority of parents would say yes to that.

I've read nothing to suggest that it would be intrusive.

Likewise. I don't think they are talking about making new laws on how to play Hide and Seek correctly 🙂

I wouldn't mind advice and insight from other people with experience.

Quite. It's common to take advice on other parenting issues - for example breastfeeding, weaning and potty-training, so how is this different?

Yeah, you're right advice is not the same as 'being told how to do something'. It's the willingness of many people to acquiesce to other 'experts' opinions that gets me.

It's societys pathalogical fear of failure that drives this, I feel. It somehow absolves us of responsibility when things go wrong, if others have advised.

I think you (plural) should trust in your own judgement/abilities and raise your children as you see fit. After all people have been doing it for millenia! 😀

It's the willingness of many people to acquiesce to other 'experts' opinions that gets me

Well that's an interesting point. It all depends on the advice. Ignoring or rejecting good advice is as bad as lapping up poor advice. It's really quite difficult to figure out which is which if it's an area with which you are not familiar.

I think you (plural) should trust in your own judgement/abilities and raise your children as you see fit.

Yeah but that falls down because many people don't have good judgement or abilities, and many see fit to do things that are manifestly bad for their kids.

After all people have been doing it for millenia!

Yeah people have been screwing it up for millenia too. Why don't you try looking for examples of poor parenting in movies, say, or books? You'll find loads.

And there's no point in citing what people did millenia ago, since the environment is completely different.

Anyway, this is the kind of thing cited in the article:

Ribena's play tips include making musical instruments from tin cans, going on a nature trail in the local park and building a dressing-up wardrobe from old boxes and pillow cases.

It's the sort of thing my wife shares with her sisters and cousins all the time - loads of parents do the same. Someone else has a great fun idea that you haven't had, you share. Can't see a problem.

Right, let's get this out of the way, I haven't got kids and it's not a troll.

So, who are these Health and safety obsessed parents? Literally everyone I know with kids goes on about how they let them get dirty, fall over, play outside, don't watch TV.

Anyone admit to being one of theses "tutters" that they're on about? Or is it an imagined middleclass thing?

The 'millennia' bit was my stab at humour not an addendum to my point!

Yeah but that falls down because many people don't have good judgement or abilities, and many see fit to do things that are manifestly bad for their kids

In whose opinion?

There's the difference. I have faith (perhaps naively)? in the 'good' of people and think that those with 'bad intentions' are in the extreme minority.

I just don't see the point in telling already stressed, overworked, time poor parents, the blindingly obvious that they 'should' spend more time with their children, thereby adding to their insecurities and neuroses.

In whose opinion?

Er.. the kids? Other adults? Social services? It's hard to defend the stuff that many parents do.

There's the difference. I have faith (perhaps naively)? in the 'good' of people and think that those with 'bad intentions' are in the extreme minority

Yes, those with bad intentions are in the extreme minority. However those who don't realise that they are parenting badly are not.

I just don't see the point in telling already stressed, overworked, time poor parents, the blindingly obvious that they 'should' spend more time with their children

Two things here:

a) It's very important to the wellbeing of children for their parents to spend good quality time with them. It should be part of parenting.

b) Many people need telling, because they don't really understand their own kids.

c) I see no evidence that the plan is to simply issue orders like you describe

There are loads of websites offering parenting advice, and where people can share tips. Are they wrong too?

Mrs Pollock in her work has to implement many of these 'initiatives' on quite a regular basis. Many are useless and achieve very little.

However those who don't realise that they are parenting badly are not.

Who sits in judgement of what defines 'bad parenting'. Oh sorry I forgot that'll be Mumsnet!

I've never said that

the plan is to simply issue orders

FWIW she thinks that its all bobbins as well!

Who sits in judgement of what defines 'bad parenting'.

A consensus could be achieved in a lot of cases based on the happiness of the children; the opportunites for fun and development presented to them; their emotional wellbeing and security; their behaviour and approach to society, etc etc.

However bad parenting does not need to be defined for this. If it's just advice in a readily available format, then that's all it is. No-one needs to categorise anybody.

I think you are being rather prejudicial. It may well turn out to be bobbins, but there's no point moaning about how bad it is on the internet before it even exists.

but there's no point moaning about how bad it is on the internet before it even exists

Fair point. Just having a general discussion rather than drilling down into the minutiae of the OPs article.

As I said earlier IMO-

Its lowest common denominator thinking, prays on new parents natural insecurities (i.e. I'm I doing right by my child) and IMO is the very worst example of the 'nanny state'.