[Closed] Children and home work

I am struggling to understand why schools are now expecting primary age school children to complete homework?

This is not a new concept. My Dad was given homework at primary school in the fifties, I was given homework in the seventies and my three kids were all given homework  in the last ten years.

I want them to have more homework , not less.

It's the only real mechanism that allows you to see how well (or not) they are doing at school.

If you wait till the end of the year parents evening and find out that they've been struggling all year, it's too late to do anything about it.

If you sit and help them through their homework every night then you'll have a real idea of their progress.

It's not about fretting over a 4 year olds career prospects.

It's about making sure that they can keep up with the rest of the class and don't get left behind.

Our we lad is half way through his first year and primary.  Like you, I was a little concerned when homework was mentioned.

It's the odd book to read together which is nothing but fun, now and again we practise his sounds/phonics and numbers.

No pressure what so ever from the school to get it done.

It's good to see what they are up to and frankly, I enjoy doing it with him.

Just chill, it's always gone on. Your parents will have practised spelling/maths with you. Just make it fun, job jobbed.

Yeah I was given homework in the 70s too but not as much as my kids get now. Education is a joint effort with the parents and schools, that said quite a few teachers at our youngest’s school say it’s a bit much.

We already do stuff like that with him anyway and happy to help out and see how he is developing. Maybe calling it homework makes it sound more intimidating than it actually is.

There’s precious little evidence that homework and testing at primary school age has any benefit to the child.

Rachel

Our kids 6/9 have always had it. Once a week at most, it's usually pretty short, and at least for the youngest it's really just a gesture. Theres no pressure or even follow-up when it gets forgotten about. I think it's as much about habit forming as anything else. Also lets us get involved a bit.

My daughter is in Reception. At age 4 they had one spelling test...they've since renamed these 'quizes'. She is also sent home with books to read and as she loves reading we tend to get through 4 or maybe even 5 in a week.

She see's practicing at home with us as fun as she enjoys and wants to be able to read and write.

She likes Lego as well, so we also throw some simple math's questions in when we're building stuff with the blocks.

It really isn't a big deal if they enjoy learning.

struggling to understand why schools are now expecting primary age school children to complete homework? Is this for the benefit of the schools?

Yes, and to the benefit of the parents who think 'more work = better'.

There is a growing body of research that suggests that:

- if you were a teacher and had say half an hour to do *something* to be more effective in teaching, than homework would be relatively low on the list of effectiveness. Many other things, usually a better approach to teaching and learning, building relationships with children, formative assessment, microteaching etc are more effective.

- the effect on children of having a longer working day than parents (when you include things like homework, out of school music lessons, ballet, football etc), then there is a significant decline in children's health and wellbeing. The lack of 'free choice' through programmed days from dawn until dusk is the main factor here - children never get to calm down, be bored (a key element in creativity and problem solving) and so forth.

- the stress of doing homework is a negative influence on parent/child and child/teacher relationships.

- the type of homework activity is really important - making use of learning that does not need adult/teacher intervention is the most effective, as it teaches learning skills and self management. Thinks like reading a book or researching a topic of their choice. A maths sheet or spellings are not effective use of homework time.

We in Scotland have some authorities looking at banning homework altogether - my own kids old primary is no on a 'homework is optional', with no homework beyond reading a book being issued as of the August.

My eldest two (both 9) have been through this at their school. It starts off with reading a book. Then comes spellings, then comes maths.

I get home from work at 5.30. I start cooking dinner straight away, then we eat, then the kids get bathed. If they are luck we get to spend 15 minutes doing one of the three homework activities they are expected to to do every day! before they go off to bed.

The school put loads of pressure on parents to get homework done everyday. Then you are made to feel like a failure as a parent if you don't, you are letting your children down, you are holding them back, other parents who don't work full time get several hours extra time each evening to achieve this.

It angers me more than just a little. At that age they go to school to learn, the rest of the time they just need to be kids.

From watching my own kids (10 and 14) and the amount of homework they get, I've concluded the present education system seems little more than a box ticking exercise run entirely for the benefit of government statisticians. If your children happen to get a decent education in the process, then that would appear to be a bonus, but it certainly isn't the priority.

If they must set them homework, I'd much rather they set them something to encourage creative thinking, instead of endlessly going over a really narrow restrictive curriculum so they can tick the faddy boxes they seem obsessed with

There’s precious little evidence that homework and testing at primary school age has any benefit to the child.

Is there perhaps a benefit in getting them used to the concept of homework at a young age, so it's not a shock to the system when they hit secondary school?

I think there's a benefit to the parents too - setting an expectation that their childs education is something in which they should be involved..

I think there’s a benefit to the parents too – setting an expectation that their childs education is something in which they should be involved..

It's entirely this. My kids can get through their homework in less than half an hour each day.

About the same time as it takes to play one game of Fortnite or watch  one cartoon on TV.

It's not a massive drain on their time or ours but it's the only reliable feedback mechanism we have to monitor their progress.

Try asking  a ten year old what they've learned at school today and getting anything close to a sensible answer.

It's not practice for the kids. It's feedback for the parents.

Agreed with PerchyPanther.   Although we've always read to our kids at bedtime, its great that my 5yo is wanting to read books to us.  Its a sense she's learning and of her interest and ability.

Although my 9yo is in teenager-esque mode (throwing head back ohhhh, Kevin & Perry style) currently his maths supersedes mine and his spellin words are complex enough to have met thinking twice about some of them.  He can read music and is learning to play Sweet Dreams by Marilyn Manson(!) on his 'leccy guitar.

I used to go and play in a field after school, I've ended up with 5 * C grade GCSE's and a personality disorder to my name.

My daughter is in the first year of secondary school and seems to get quite a bit of homework. She does most stuff by herself but for some subjects she wants help from me and to be honest it is starting to become hard work as opposed to the fun stuff she had at primary school.

The maths has reached the stage where I have to look up how to do things (e.g. area of a trapezium) rather than just knowing. It can also take well over an hour which is not great when she tells me at 9pm that it is due the following day.

I do feel that going through this with her greatly helps her understanding but think I need to encourage her to work independently. It is useful to be involved in terms of assessing her progress though as she only has one parent's evening per year.

I would say enjoy the primary school homework - it can be fun if you approach it in the right way and as others have said it allows you to see where your child might be struggling.

so it’s not a shock to the system when they hit secondary school?

Or the secondary school could progressively introduce it through the first year.

We already do stuff like that with him anyway and happy to help out and see how he is developing. Maybe calling it homework makes it sound more intimidating than it actually is.

Possibly but it also then applies to the parents who don't....

@perchypanth .... Exactly...

 At that age they go to school to learn, the rest of the time they just need to be kids.

Sorry (genuinely) but I disagree very strongly.... IMHO this is a huge part of what is wrong with the system

OH is a teacher but has worked in pre-schools as well and this starts off with the number of parents who think it is a school's job to potty train... that they need do nothing....she has had kids leaving pre-school for reception where the parents have been adamant the primary school will potty train, introduce them to books, learn how to use a knife and fork or tie shoe laces etc.

Some parents expect that behaviour, morality etc. are the schools job...

I'm not suggesting this is YOU.... I'm pointing out this is a joint thing.  

Neither can work without re-inforcement of the other ... and the burden on the schools to do what some parents won't is just another waste of resources.

My kids have had homework at primary school - they seem to get more at the new school we moved them too than the last one.

Nothing too bad in the homework - I struggle though with the new methods that they teach - especially with maths.

What really gets on my goat is flippin' phonics - stop teaching them it's OK to spell phonetically - it isn't. It then takes them ages to unlearn and spell properly.

Oh and handwriting - why they need to teach 6/7 year olds to do joined up is beyond me - especially when they haven't taught them to spell properly first!

....and WTAF is diacritical marking!

However, homework is not potty training, speaking civilly or learning to use a knife or fork.

I’m with matt_outandabout all the way on this. Isn’t there evidence from country’s with more forward thinking education systems than ours (Norway, Sweden) that children learn better through play? Can’t look up now as I’m sat in a car park wasting time before a meeting.

Reading books with your kids is just something that should be done any way. I was reading to both mine from the days they arrived.

Reading books with your kids is just something that should be done any way. I was reading to both mine from the days they arrived.

Yes - but many parents don't. Hence trying to encourage them to feel part of the educational process. Homework can be fun stuff too.

Generally I am a fan of a little homework in primary schools. I had it in the 70's and both my kids had it in the 00's. The best homeworks are open ended creative things, writing, discovering  and making. But we also had word lists to learn for spelling. So many parents really don't see educating kids as part of their role (no reflection on OP, just a general experience). They find time for PS4 and Britains Got Talent, but take little interest in their own kids talents.

A little homework in Pramary Schools gets the kids in the habit of independent study at a young age.

Much of the testing that goes on in schools is more to assess the school than to assess the pupil. I think this is OK however as we need to know how well our schools are doing.

As a scientist and geek I am genuinely amazed by how little curiosity and wonderment most people take in the world. We need an education system that maintains the sense of wonderment and curiosity. Homework can be both a positive or a negative thing to support this.

oh, and for every kid that arrives in primary school already able to read a bit and write their name, there are at least one or two more who are barely potty trained and can't master some of the stuff that many of us would consider basics. Primary school teachers in YR1 have a really difficult job to balance this out!

Primary school teachers in YR1 have a really difficult job to balance this out!

Agreed.

Perhaps, like so many of our European colleagues, we should look to raise the school age, focus on play in early years (to age 6/7) and on parenting skills, instead of expecting ever younger children to read, write, and sit still while undertaking low grade admin tasks while ill prepared to look after themselves?

It’s the only real mechanism that allows you to see how well (or not) they are doing at school.

Bit of a crazy idea, but wouldn't it make sense for schools to send a letter home at the end of each term listing all the subjects the kid's been doing and some comments about their progress? I know it would be a mammoth job for the teachers and schools to organize this "term report", but I'm sure parents would really appreciate it.

IME, homework is really effective for the kids who don't need it (i.e. their parents make sure they keep up with stuff anyway), but useless for the kids who do need it. If the kids haven't kept up with what's happening in class, then they won't be able to do the homework and it's unlikely that their parents will understand what it's about either. This means that the gap between the high-achievers and low-achievers gets bigger, but the teachers are overloaded with checking and grading homework, so they have less time to spend helping the low-achievers catch up.

Hence trying to encourage them to feel part of the educational process. Homework can be fun stuff too.

This is one of the benefits of a small amount of homework at primary school. It means that parents are more likely to be engaged in both the process of setting aside time for homework, and helping where necessary. Good habits all round. Half an hour here and there does not destroy a childhood, any more than that at primary age is pushing it though.

I sure this topic has been done before.

Have a read at the research. (On average a child who does homework is 5 months ahead of a child who doesn't)

Bit of a crazy idea, but wouldn’t it make sense for schools to send a letter home at the end of each term listing all the subjects the kid’s been doing and some comments about their progress? I know it would be a mammoth job for the teachers and schools to organize this “term report”, but I’m sure parents would really appreciate it.

We get one per year, at the end of the year and they are, on the whole,  mostly generic.

"insert name here" is working well and contributes well in class.....etc.

We have compared them with other parents and they are quite often, word for word, identical.

They clearly have three templates to work from. "Child Prodigy", "Normal Kid" and "Danger to themselves and others"

5 months ahead 

"Potential gain is estimated in terms of additional months progress you might expect pupils to make as a result of an approach being used in school, taking average pupil progress over a year is as a benchmark. The progress that an average pupil in a year group of 100 students makes over a year is equivalent to them moving up from 50th place to 16th place, if all the other students had not made any progress."

So that is 5 months ahead of a pupil who did nothing. It is also estimated (as is so much in the muddled science of learning). Next thing you will tell me is that PISA ranks us lowly and that is an accurate assessment of learning...

Others disagree by the way.

https://visible-learning.org/2014/09/john-hattie-interview-bbc-radio-4/

The local primary lets the kids choose some of their own homework. My friends son has included bike maintenance.

5 days in the week / 5 friends.

Revolving each day > Friend + parent agrees to ace homework task and share with the others.

Top marks for 1/5 of the effort.

Anyone that slacks is kicked out of the group. Everyone must proof and understand the work.

Prepare your kids well for corporate life where efficiency and results are valued most 🙂

Should cover maths and science!

Prepare your kids well for corporate life where efficiency and results are valued most 🙂

urrghhhh!

I'm happy for my kids to do a bit of homework, largely as it encourages them to bloody sit still for 30 minutes instead of manically flossing/dabbing/WTFFKDTD 🙂

Seriously though, 30 minutes is nowt.  Bit of maths, some spellings, reading etc.  If it doesn't happen, no worries.  We went to play cricket last night instead of doing homework, though they did a bit of reading before bed.  It may offer "zero" benefit, but that doesn't mean it does any harm IMO.

Perchypanther - as a parent and a teacher i agree to some extent about homework. With regards to feedback to parents, why not speak to class teacher (as i do most weeks) to get a running progress check on your kid?

I’m with matt_outandabout all the way on this. Isn’t there evidence from country’s with more forward thinking education systems than ours (Norway, Sweden) that children learn better through play?

Weirdly there is a whole load of complete contradictions...

Finland is often held up as the "example" where kids stat late and lots of play ... but the other examples are China/Singapore etc. that are entirely the opposite.

There is some scoring system used... you can probably google as I forget the name)

Personally I'm of the belief that sticking to one method is the common denominator.

The UK seems to just change and switch at all levels..... but from my observation that level is generally downwards.

Speaking of common denominators that kinda leads to some examples....

I've lost count of the number of different methods my 8yr old has been taught for different really basic maths.

They try one thing one year then seem to switch method ... no longer do you work out one than they are doing another.

One thing I find completely regressive is that schools are no longer allowed to teach times tables in a single year... what used to be guidance got changed so they are only allowed to teach certain ones...

but the fundamental thing is WHY can't/don't they teach all of times tables in a week (or two?)

Its really just a set of rhymes and stuff you just learn... if it was stuff on Pokemon the kids would have it off the same day....

The reason for picking this example... well how can you teach certain stuff if the kids don't know their times tables... it just makes everything harder for them and to some extent is the reason for the different methods that then lead to confusion.

This leads to such weird arguments by teachers who have no idea how/why something changed...

My kid came home really upset one day last year after the teacher screaming at him that there is no such thing as the 7 times table... perhaps not the best way she could have handled it but since he knows the 7*x table (forwards, backwards and inside out like every other) but she's not allowed to teach it this year guess she got exasperated him reciting it to the class.  (* could have been 7 it's just an example)

So back to the Scandanavian thing.... this year they adopted the Chinese method in maths...

This doesn't seem like any magic .. in fact it appears to be more or less the same as we did in the 70's... before we started experimenting

What my primary school did do in the 70's though was equally terrible... as my school/LEA decided to teach ITA and a whole phonetic alphabet...

In order to do this they ended up in the "there is no 7x table land"...   I could read perfectly well but they had to keep telling me that those letters are false/don't exist etc. (and confiscating books).

Kids had been learning perfectly well without this... but someone decided to be "progressive".... so i had a thoroughly miserable time being told how to spell my name in ITA ... I was 5 and stubborn.. I wanted to believe what my parents told me and what my eyes told me... but to a 5yr old whatever the explanation was came across as your parents have been lying to you. (The reason I know this today is my teacher was my mum's 2nd cousin)

Anyway... my point really is they should stop trying to change everything and be progressive.

Sometimes it's better to just take one or the other and stick to it instead of keep changing.

Perhaps, like so many of our European colleagues, we should look to raise the school age, focus on play in early years (to age 6/7) and on parenting skills, instead of expecting ever younger children to read, write, and sit still while undertaking low grade admin tasks while ill prepared to look after themselves?

What exactly happens to the kids who can read when they go to school???

or is that bad parenting?

I'm got a meeting planned with my sons head teacher as due to a family event, my son missed two classes, and got no homework. Then his teacher preaches class like he's some kind of jerk.

Our five year old is in primary one and gets one reading book and one lot of homework a week.  It quickly became clear that he was having problems with some of his letters - we were able to help him with that.  Just one small example of why it can be a useful thing.

I'm a primary school teacher (retrained this year) and my wife is a primary head teacher.

We'll be firmly opting out of homework for our own children.

Make of that what you will.

not sure what your post is meant to say brant??

What exactly happens to the kids who can read when they go to school???

They read books at nursery. Why wouldn't they?

Also, be aware that some young children can memorise whole books and number (and that includes sums), but they do not actually understand the concepts or underlying processes. My wife (early years peripatetic teacher) assesses children each month who according to parents are 'gifted' and need to be 'pushed on' - yet a good assessment shows they have memorised certain things, not actually understanding.

See we all have a rather UK filtered view of what early years, of primary and secondary education looks like.

I just spent last week in Estonia as part of an Erasmus+ Early Years project, sharing best practice in play and learning outdoors. But we also saw the practice indoors - it include writing, reading, cooking, sleeping, playing, STEM etc - just with a specialist staff who 'get' Early Years.

Finland is often held up as the “example” where kids stat late and lots of play

but the other examples are China/Singapore etc. that are entirely the opposite.

The discrepancy comes down to your value system and how you measure 'successful'.

So back to the Scandanavian thing…. this year they adopted the Chinese method in maths…

I think you mean a country did, and I am not sure it is a Chinese thing, and that is because the way they are being measured is on the PISA system - which is appalling if you ask me - and scores them 'down'.

But, if you want to go down the Asian route, first listen to South Korea's ex education minister who is now going around the globe saying 'we got it wrong', and read up on the 14hour days etc they put in...

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2094427,00.html

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whos-Afraid-Big-Bad-Dragon/dp/1501200976

This is not perfect - but it does sum up some challenges.

https://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robinson_bring_on_the_revolution

You can opt out of homework?? why didn't anyone tell me that when I was at school?

Anyway, for those with younger children at Primary school, wait till they get to year 6 and the SATs. Even in the last 3 years between my 2 children I've seen a marked increase in panic by the year 6 teachers as they try and squeeze every tiny ounce of interest from the school day by testing the kids incessantly and making out like SATs are the new GCSE's   Its a truly depressing state of affairs and has turned my daughter from an inquisitive school loving child into a weary cynic at 11 years old.

Anyway, for those with younger children at Primary school, wait till they get to year 6 and the SATs.........Its a truly depressing state of affairs and has turned my daughter from an inquisitive school loving child into a weary cynic at 11 years old

Ahem.

That is the English residents in the room.

Scotland, NI and now Wales won't be doing these tests.

It is one of the main reasons we stayed in Scotland (despite no education system being perfect).