So, our childminder told us today she has bought a border collie.
For context she drops off and picks up our two young daughters from school two days a week and has other younger children all day. She runs the business from her house and looks after the kids there.
Both our girls, particularly the eldest, are wary/frightened by dogs following several incidents of out of control dogs at the local park. We do introduce them to dogs we know are ok to try and easy their fear but it's very slow going and we are nowhere near overcoming it.
I have known plenty of collies as both working dogs and pets from working on farms during university and as a general rule they were excellent workers but utter ****s socially, pretty intolerant and would snap without warning. I am ok with dogs but am always wary around collies and other working breeds.
I just have visions of this ending up being one of those stories on the news after the dog mauls a kid.
Am I being totally unreasonable to be concerned and thinking this is a bit of a dick move by the childminder?
Yes you are being unreasonable.
It’s about how the dog is raised not the breed. As long as the child minder is raising the dog responsibly, and you have no reason to presume that they aren’t, I don’t think it’s really any of your business what sort of dog that they choose to have.
No, I understand your worries but as a private childminder, I don't really see what say you have in it. If it bothers you, find a new childminder.
They should have told you about it beforehand though, rather than drop it in.
Actually rereading your post - have they actually GOT it yet, or are they actually telling you they've bought it and you've got weaning timescale to like it or lump it. That's different to buying an adult dog and it turning up one day unannounced.
And +1 to how it's raised rather than the breed - but I too have experience of BC's being a bit snappy.
I'm not sure what your problem is - just get a different childminder if it bothers you 🤷♂️
I've known lots of lovely collies so I don't think there's anything about the breed itself to worry about. As already said, maybe this will be a bit of a learning experience for them - if and when they get to meet the dog (which they might not).
If the childminder had dogs before then I'd have no issue. Even then, if they are new to having a dog then I imagine a lot of their childminder skills are transferable to raising a dog.
To put it another way, I'd not let someone look after my kids if I didn't think they could look after a dog.
The last dog that bit me, producing a significant amount of blood, was a BC. Well trained, allegedly, and "he's never done that before".
It was bought while they were on holiday and is being bought home today. It's a puppy. This is their first dog. I suspect this was a bit of an impulse buy.
Having had the kids there for 4 years I don't hold out hope it'll get the amount of walking, training and stimulation a collie needs. I've been around working breeds for years and they definitely have different needs than other breeds. I wouldn't be anywhere near as worried if they'd bought a dachshund!
I really don't want my kids sat there frightened for 3 hours.
There are no other childminders who pick up from school so it's there or try and reduce my hours at work.
It's their decision.
If you don't like it then it's on you to change the situation -not them.
Fwiw my child minder as a kid had a dog - this isn't new.
+1 for an opportunity to get used to dogs.
If it’s raised with the kids as a pup then i wouldn’t have an issue, the pup will love the kids, if
Very much this. My daughter's grown up round my best mates German shepherd -i don't doubt he would defend her to the death. The sister in law's rescue lab - I don't turn my back on it.
This is their first dog
They are in for a steep learning curve!
Our Collie was our first dog and hard but rewarding work.
I wouldn't be without her though.
My border collie is 14 now had a horrible first 18 months of her life and is absolutely soft as a brush
Yes that can be hard work but are hardly snappy. I've had working ones too if well trained they are fantastic dogs.
They are very nervous dogs I will conceded that and can be possessive of a particular family member (my wife in our case)
Well trained I could think of no better dog around small children
as a puppy, different matter, perfect chance for the kids to get used to and confident around a dog.
However, as a puppy they will get 'bitten' - nipped really - it's a fact of life with puppies, until they grow / are trained out of it.
A lot of how the childminder deals with this will inform how the dog will be later. You don't say how old your kids are - you say at school and that they've been with the CM for 4 years, but that could be pretty well any primary age in my mind. If older, rather than toddler+ they can help to train the nipping out and will understand that it is the puppy learning, and will be a good experience for them.
You can then decide based on how the dog has learned what risk it is as it reaches adolescence, which can then be a concern - my lovely little girl became a stubborn little sod at that age until order was re-established.
I know 4 BC owners, 2 proper working dogs - I wouldn't trust any of them in the slightest around children.
You are not being unreasonable. I like most dogs, but my wife is wary to the point of being scared of them. As a pediatric nurse she's seen the aftermath of dog/child interaction. I have a bigger problem with dog owners who seem to think it's fine to inflict their pets on other people. I'd be finding another childminder.
They are very nervous dogs I will conceded that and can be possessive of a particular family member (my wife in our case)
Well trained I could think of no better dog around small children
I'm going to contest this I'm afraid; neighbours is fantastically well trained and works with the police / lowland rescue as a tracker, but has snapped at both me and my son and is very possessive of the wife of the house (the cause of the aggressive behaviour with me, not sure what happened with my son). I'm not scared of the dog, but I am wary around it. And he is quite a big powerful dog too.....
Just get a new childminder if it bothers you. Nowt you can do about it. Ask the new one about any potential dog ownership plans.
If it bothers you then just look after your own kids. You chose to have them after all.
The kids are 5 and 8. Getting "nipped" will definitely not improve their view of dogs.
It's getting run at, chased and nipped by young dogs in the park that has made them scared of them in the first place.
Getting “nipped” will definitely not improve their view of dogs.
well it's going to happen, all puppies do it. Virtually every kid brought up in a house with a puppy has been nipped, and go on to have valuable trusting relationships with dogs - maybe even because of it rather than in spite of it.
It's play to the puppy, until they learn that it isn't a game to their humans, and that's where if the CM is firm and consistent in their treatment, and also the kids in their care do the same and remove the game as soon as the puppy nips, then it actually might not be the traumatic experience you're imagining it to be.
It's not the same as being chased and bitten by a 6-12mo old dog in the park.
I'd talk to the CM myself and see what plans are. Maybe the pup will be excluded to other areas unless fully supervised? But in the end - see my first answer.
[edit - for clarity by puppy I mean proper young pups, up to say 20-odd weeks at which point adult teeth will be coming through and nipping should have been stopped. Older dogs shouldn't nip at all. Although mine will mouth in rough play, which technically we shouldn't allow.....]
Sadly some farmers see them as just another tool no interaction outside the dogs working life to me that's not trained just lazy ownership.
My dog spent the first part of her life in a 1 bedroom flat and had never been on a walk. It took 3 years of work and to get her to 99% and as owners we have always been aware of her past.
Dog ownership is a 2 way street.
Is the childminder self-employed or your employee? If the latter, what does your contract say? If the former then it's up to her what she does, and up to you if you want to find someone else without justification or explanation if you don't like how she does things.
How old is the puppy? If they are afraid of a ten week old puppy then they really do have a problem.
If it bothers you then just look after your own kids. You chose to have them after all.
Thanks for that insightful judgment. We do 99% of the time but like most parents we need to work and in our case only seek support for a few hours a week.
We aren't the only parents wary of this as some of the others have just asked us what we think.
SiL is a child minder as a commercial enterprise, offering similar services to those yours sounds to do. So it is likely her business will be quite heavily regulated and their home subjected to a risk assessment for it to be deemed safe to operate as a child minder. Introducing a dog changes the risk profile. Questions such as what will the kids be doing when the dog is taken out for the necessary walks. Will the kids be left alone with the pooch? Where will it be kept during the day when it inevitably poos and pees on the floor. Will your kids be around that? Etc.
All of these issues should be addressed before the dog lands, or they would have to be addressed when the minder is next inspected*.
Personally, I’m also not a fan of BC, too snappy. And having worked for insurers in injury claims against pet owners, BCs did figure more than any other breed for nips and bites.
By the way, I love dogs, still getting over the loss of our little girl last June.
*assuming she is above board etc and not doing this in the QT.
No, I don't think you're being unreasonable. I don't think it's very responsible for a childminder to take on a puppy when her day job involves children. How exactly if she going to train a pup whilst there's little 'uns to entertain/supervise? Puppy pi**ing on the floor, nappies to change, children to toilet, bottoms to wipe. Sounds a nightmare.
It's nothing to do with the breed, it's bringing an animal into her (not full-time) workplace and expecting her clientele to simply accept it, without any forewarning or the courtesy to discuss it.
Nah, that's not right.
Questions such as what will the kids be doing when the dog is taken out for the necessary walks.
How exactly if she going to train a pup whilst there’s little ‘uns to entertain/supervise? Puppy pi**ing on the floor, nappies to change, children to toilet, bottoms to wipe. Sounds a nightmare.
Childminders don't all live alone.
Can't it just be kept separate from the kids whilst the childminder is working?
My (and my 2 sisters) child minder had a border collie, he was awesome, he was around from all of us being 2-14. YMMV.
Having had the kids there for 4 years I don’t hold out hope it’ll get the amount of walking, training and stimulation a collie needs.
You trust them with your kids, but not a dog?
Won’t somebody please think of the children.
Do you know that they're even going to be in the same room?
Dogs seem to have more rights than anyone else. The world has gone mad.
No they don't. Stop being silly and argumentative.
Sounds like the OP needs to talk to the CM and find out what plans are and then make a decision.
Puppy pi**ing on the floor, nappies to change, children to toilet, bottoms to wipe. Sounds a nightmare.
Yup, I agree, it's definitely not a job that I would want to do. But "how will she cope" doesn't seem to be what is worrying the OP. It's whether the dog will attack the children:
I just have visions of this ending up being one of those stories on the news after the dog mauls a kid.
I see more news stories about people winning big on the lottery than kids being mauled by border collies. Inc puppies.
Just look at the evil savagery in this ones eyes
A lot of presumption going on in this thread. Until the OP actually has an adult conversation with his childminder to find out what exactly they plan to do regarding the dog then everything else is just pointless speculation.
I wouldn’t be anywhere near as worried if they’d bought a dachshund!
I would be, they're proper little bastards, they bite and don't let go.
FWIW our childminder has a BC/Greyhound cross and she's absolutely lovely.
Mate has a 1yo dachshund. And a 14 week old daughter. Dog and daughter are smitten with each other.
I see more news stories about people winning big on the lottery than kids being mauled by border collies. Inc puppies.
I see more stories about children suffering from food allergies.
https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/a-childs-best-friend-how-a-dog-can-stop-kids-getting-food-allergies/
"Traditionally, dogs might be a man’s best friend but they can be the best medicine for children, according to scientists.
Researchers have found having a dog, and preferably two, can protect a child against developing allergies.
Youngsters in households with dogs, from three months old, were 90% less likely to develop food intolerances.
And they were also less likely to become asthmatic."
How hot is the childminder? We need the full picture.
How hot is the childminder? We need the full picture.
That's less "border collie" and more "easy tiger."
YES UABU.
It's the childminders house and life. If you don't like the situation, you can move your kids to somewhere else. If you raised it as an issue with her I suspect she would be surprised.
Border Collies are amazing dogs. They have no 'breed tendency' toward being aggressive at all. If you've experienced aggressive toward human collies, they've either been mistreated, trained to be aggressive, or have very little contact with humans.
They can get frustrated if not exercised and kept mentally stimulated - but it's just a matter of training and looking after your dog. This is true of all dogs.
It sounds like you're wary of some dogs yourself and have passed this onto your kids. They pick that stuff up.
This is a great opportunity for them to experience a dog from a puppy, and to learn they are animals to be respectful of and can make your life more fulfilling, and are not to be feared.
Again, your choice - it's her life, and her business, if you don't like it, you have the choice to take your business elsewhere.
2 whippets and a galgo here.
IF this BC is going to be well trained, socialised and stimulated then no problem - amazing dogs.
If not, then don't have bare ankles around it, nippy buggers in my experience (one time postie, delivery driver and a BC owned by a regular customer). Not surprising when you see how they herd sheep.
To be clear, I've met lovely friendly BC's which have had a lot of work put into them, but met many times more nippy territorial ones. On average not a dog I would choose to leave my kids with. First time dog owners though? Steep learning curve ahead indeed.
Get a new childminder or they'll be hassling you for a dog. Or stick with her so they can enjoy a dog without the hassle of owning one.
SiL is a child minder as a commercial enterprise, offering similar services to those yours sounds to do. So it is likely her business will be quite heavily regulated and their home subjected to a risk assessment for it to be deemed safe to operate as a child minder.
Unless the OP is using an unregistered child minder, of course 😂
Yes, you are being unreasonable....you can't dictate how the child minder lives, if you don't like it, find a new childminder