MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
think you’ll find the effects of resultant atmospheric pollution are longer lasting than “immediately”. Stuff like coal lung is a long term early death for some sufferers. In our recent history the London smog was responsible for thousands of deaths every year, all related to coal fire emissions, and the atmospheric effects here were of course short term, when weather conditions did not clear the crap from the air. The “deaths” figures on wikipedia account for all forms of death not just the obvious instant explosive ones, so I think it is more than a little disingenuous to say “that’s basically it”. That attitude, being dismissive of “conventional” fuel problems, combined with ramping up the scare factor on nuclear (because it has magic woo woo that you can’t see) is what has shut down sensible discussion of nuclear over the years.
Calm down love, (fortunately) I have nothing to do with the furthering of nuclear power nor the halting of fossil fuels, so my ignorance is pretty irrelevant. FWIW I'm all for nuclear power. From reading that article I still infer that most deaths from coal production are 'at source', and whilst black lung is a serious issue it still affects mainly the miners. My point was that nuclear accidents tend to kill those indirectly or not remotely involved in the industry, which makes it the proverbial boogie man in people's minds. In the same way that people are more afraid of plane crashes than car crashes - it's that unseen threat that they're not in control of. Coal mines going boom is more tangible and easy to ignore. Unless you're in the mine at the time.
Coal mines going boom is more tangible and easy to ignore.
Coal mines going boom have an effect on those in the mine and - worst case scenario - those in the immediate vicinity. Worst case scenario of a nuclear reactor going boom ?? A bit worse.
Yes, that was my point. Mrmonkfinger dialled condescension up to 11.
Back OT, looking forward to tonight's episode, is it 5 parts in total...?
Back OT, looking forward to tonight’s episode, is it 5 parts in total…?
Think so. Between this and The Virtues I am having to keep sharp objects hidden to avoid self-harm!
Although you seem to have missed mine and gone for an ad hom instead.
most deaths from coal production are ‘at source’,
In a condescending fashion, I could have included
this really condescending link
to make the point again, that pollution from coal is the problem.
Or I could just quote the first result like this
"470 times as many deaths due to air pollution among members of the public, and more than 1,000 times as many cases of serious illness"
as if you're unable to use any sort of internet search engine yourself.
But as you've stated, that would be condescending, so I probably shouldn't do that.
Bloody hell, that made for grim viewing, even by the standards of the first 3 episodes
I think I need to watch some funny YouTube videos of cats, or something
Interesting. I found that the mildest (for want of a better word) so far
Brilliant series, I had to let them pile up on the Sky box and watched over the past 2 nights. The humour injection with the miners was extremely welcome! Then we had the "hunt". Grim as hell.
Jessie Buckley is a superb actress, took me a while to work out it was her.
Boris and Valery's growing friendship has been superb. Ripping into the Central Committee on the phone was a high point too!
Boris and Valery’s growing friendship has been superb. Ripping into the Central Committee on the phone was a high point too!
We need a new phone.
Ripping into the Central Committee on the phone was a high point too!
Are we allowed to call it a meltdown?
The '90 second mission' was particularly grim. I wonder what the rate of early death in those thousands of comrades was?
That really was grim.
The 90 seconds sequence was utterly draining to watch.
The sound of the radiation detector / Geiger counter is so chilling. Took me back to the guys working the valves in the dark. Properly compelling TV.
On a lighter note, is good to see 'Finchy' getting a prominent role now. Reminds me (a lot) of Zhukov in the Death of Stalin.
Another excellent episode.
I guess 90 seconds was a lifetime safe dose. Assuming they'd done their homework correctly (that's a large assumption given some of the other mistakes in their homework).
For anybody who likes motorbikes this is a fascinating site, it belongs to Elena Filatova, the daughter of a Chernobyl scientist. She rode her motorbike on the deserted roads of the dead zone.
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/chapter1.html
"The roads are blocked for cars, but not for motorcycles. Good girls go to heaven. Bad ones go to hell. And girls on fast bikes go anywhere they want."
She's not very complimentary about the Soviet system, is she?
I find the election day stuff especially comic. Or tragic. I'm not sure which. The election house building where you could go to vote. For any candidate from a choice of one. Attendance was bought by supplying free drinks and having a public holiday the next day.
Just an excellent show that was. Great stuff.
Fantastic end to a great series.
The shouting in the control room went a bit Ray Winstone if I was being picky about authenticity.
I thought the last episode was the best and overall one of the best things I've seen in a very long time. Anyone now what the music was that was playing over the final sequence of images and updates?
A masterclass in how to be powerful in just 5 episodes too.
Aye, that was absolutely tremendous telly start to finish. Utterly terrifying, sad and fascinating in equal measures. Superb. Already reading one of the books mentioned on page 1.
Aye, that was absolutely tremendous telly start to finish.
Up there with Band of Brothers for my all time favourite viewing - fact is better than fiction?
Fabulous TV. Not sure that I'd want to watch it again in a hurry though.
That was a gripping final episode, and I thought they managed to get just enough of the technical stuff into the courtroom to make the control room scenes both comprehensible and more horrifying. Definitely some of the best TV I've seen and all the better for being 5 episodes rather than spread thinly over a longer series. The podcast following each episode has been a great companion piece too.
The really depressing thing about the scenes in the control room is how familiar the failures were. I don't work in the Nuclear Industry but after seeing the failures around the people (rather than the technical failures of the design) my response was along the lines of "so all the usual suspects then".
Poor planning
Poor procedures
Poor management of change
Inadequate training
Poor understanding of the risks associated with the task in hand
Basically whenever you see an industrial accident chances are that most if not all of those points will be part of the problem.
Going to struggle to find anything else on the telly box as compelling. I watched ep1 to get a taster and immediately followed it with 2-4. Then kicked myself that I’d have to wait a week for ep5.
I've actually enjoyed waiting a week at a time to watch it, It's given me more time to think about it and recall its effect at the time.
I’ve actually enjoyed waiting a week at a time to watch it, It’s given me more time to think about it and recall its effect at the time.
Agreed. I don't like this binging.
How do I watch this without Sky? I have Apple TV, Netflix, Prime etc but no Sky channels.
Bittorrent? or [url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chernobyl-2019-Sky-Atlantic-Drama/dp/B07RR73LT6/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=chernobyl&qid=1559745422&s=gateway&sr=8-6 ]Amazon[/url]
Now TV
How do I watch this without Sky? I have Apple TV, Netflix, Prime etc but no Sky channels.
Cheapest legit way is to get yourself Now TV, I think they do free trials which will probably be enough to see off the 5 episodes. It'll be available for the next 28 days or so.
That, or the more dubious routes which are available.
It was also good for showing the fall of the Russian state and how badly it was run. The country was on it's knees but kept up the false news and facts of how good or bad everything was. Great programme and thoroughly enjoyed. To add I'm also reading a book about the Chernobyl incident and the facts make dire reading indeed.
Which book?
What a fantastic five hours of TV. Right up there with the very best of recent years.
(rather than the technical failures of the design)
gonefishin
I'd hazard that
the whole socialist government approach to life
the culture of never questioning / being able to question superiors
the gov/kgb locking up anyone who questioned their superiors
the gov/kgb hushing up everything and anything that was discovered
using the nuclear biz as a flag waving political willy wave
are also contenders for 'things that were not right' about the whole sorry story
a lot of the technical failures were direct results of many of the above cultural problems as well as a result of your list
What a fantastic five hours of TV. Right up there with the very best of recent years.
Hear hear, absolutely stellar. I love me a good post script at the end of a TV show, and the Chernobyl one was superb, in a terrifying way.
Actual footage of 'bio-robots' clearing the roof. Pretty much indistinguishable from the HBO version...
Bloody hell. I wondered if there was were going to be more about that bloke who cut his boot on the lump of graphite in ep4.
There is a good podcast where they interview the series creators and actors, good companion
that roof footage, wow
Best tv ive seen for a good while. My own complaint was there wasn't more... couple of extra episodes before the trial in last episode would have been good as there was certainly potential for further events to be expanded like the miners for example.
Wondering if there could be a second season, maybe the difficulties in building the sarcophagus...not likely to have the raw impact of the first season but definitely been on my watchlist
Not the same by any shot but it's worth digging out the original Edge of Darkness if you want a powerful fictional take on the nuclear industry gone awry.
Has the same desaturated feel of dread.
The late Bob Peck in his prime.
Incredible TV - caught the last episode last night.
Ghastly, compelling, shocking.
One of my main memories of the disaster as a child was seeing the radiation cloud movement on the news or the weather. That & the 90 second guys on the roof. When they sent in the firefighters in the first episode I was I'm sure they had men on the roof for 90 seconds at a time.
Wondering if there could be a second season, maybe the difficulties in building the sarcophagus…not likely to have the raw impact of the first season but definitely been on my watchlist
I'm sure I've watched a documentary about the new one - on something like superstructures on channel 5 or somewhere similar.
I thought five episodes covered it just about right. More would have diluted the impact. It's not the top rated TV on imdb (ever) for nothing, the team behind the show got just about everything right.
I’m sure I’ve watched a documentary about the new one – on something like superstructures on channel 5 or somewhere similar.
Yeah, ive seen that, very interesting, particularly the way they 'slid' the new sarcophagus over the old one 😮
Apparently it was written by the same guy who the Hangover II & III
PrinceJohn
Member
Apparently it was written by the same guy who the Hangover II & III
That makes sense, I thought they had a similar feel.
I thought it was a fantastic piece of gripping tv, best thing I've seen in ages.
Looks like the Russians have a different take on the world (msn.com)
Best TV series I've seen in a long time. The timeline in the final episode was just heartbreaking seeing how the Soviet machine lead to the failings.
10/10. One to keep on the box forever.
Food for though. (Where’s Jivehoney when you need him?)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/07/chernobyl-hbo-russian-tv-remake
Where’s Jivehoney when you need him?
Working on the script for the Russian version.....
I read a lot about the incident since 1986 - I was twelve when it happened.
The Soviet system allowed for colossal technological improvements in the space of half a century the country went from being semi-feudal to soft-landing space probes on Venus.
I found this from 1994, it gives a sobering assessment of how much money we paid to help prop up a rapidly decaying nuclear infrastructure. Imagine what would have happened if we hadn't?
Once upon a time, I was very much in favour of nuclear power. Now I'm not so sure - I recently saw a documentary by Jim Al-Khalili on Sellafield and the processes there they use to recycle and entomb the waste - they vitrify it in glass that won't crack under humidity like concrete or slowly leech out. Fact is, it'll need careful management for centuries yet.
Then there's the necessity of access to vast amounts of water in all nuclear plants. What could go wrong?
And sleep well after reading this:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/05/national/nuclear-operator-seeks-restart-despite-active-fault-plant/#.XQA1_ohKh3g
Back to Chernobyl, it's compelling watching and the pace is superb.
Not sure if any of yous have read THIS?
Of course it was over dramatised for effect. Still enjoyed it though.
Russia Today is my go-to source for impartial views on this matter. 🙂
TBH, if the only fault that RT could find was that the old lady's cow wouldn't have been shot in front of her, and that he didn't actually see the miners getting bollock naked, then I guess HBO were pretty much on the money with the things that mattered.
If RT reported that the sun was shining over London today, I'd be sure to bring an umbrella to work.
If
RTR4 Today reported that the sun was shining over London today, I’d be sure to bring an umbrella to work.
FTFY
I think this NY Times piece sums it up nicely - bit Hollywood, but still excellent tv.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/02/arts/television/chernobyl-hbo.html
The Soviet system allowed for colossal technological improvements in the space of half a century
They didn't do that by being real careful about people and places and stuff, though.
And sleep well after reading this:
Expert says there is a fault line below power plant, survey commissioned to find out, what is the story there?
They didn’t do that by being real careful about people and places and stuff, though.
That was kind of my point - none other than Lavrenty Beria was given the task of delivering the Soviet Union's first atomic bomb. Beria was undoubtedly one of the 20th century's biggest shits in a century not short of them to choose from.
Expert says there is a fault line below power plant, survey commissioned to find out, what is the story there?
Best summed up in the following quote from the article:
The company has to show data to disprove the opinions of experts that there is an earthquake risk immediately below the plant.
You'd hope that building a nuclear power station on or near a geological fault line would be an isolated incident...
martinhutch
Subscriber
TBH, if the only fault that RT could find was that the old lady’s cow wouldn’t have been shot in front of her, and that he didn’t actually see the miners getting bollock naked, then I guess HBO were pretty much on the money with the things that mattered.
If those two points are the only things you picked up on in that piece then you had best stick to The Sun and The Daily Mail for your impartial world news.
Beria had to be very carefully talked out of walking into the first Russian Pile whilst it was running as he was certain the scientists were making up what they were doing. He was not the sort of man that could be "restrained"/argued with, without serious repercussions. The KGB/NKVD/secret police also had orders to shoot the lead scientists if the first bomb test did not look the same as the American tests!
If those two points are the only things you picked up on in that piece then you had best stick to The Sun and The Daily Mail for your impartial world news.
Enlighten us - what other points did that RT interview throw up then?
I don't see anything that isn't dramatic license being called out by the Russian General there.
Finished this last night and having had a two month break from the Serhii Plokhii book (my daughter had nicked it) I'm going to start reading it again. It really was astonishingly high quality TV. The narrative, the timeline, the character development, the suspense, the horror, the cinematography, the effects, the sinister soundtrack, the use of Russian language and singing, the use of Chernobyl's twin Ignalina plant. The accents didn't bother me at all, the duration was perfect and the end summary with footage of the real people was very well done. Legasov's explanation of the failure with the red and blue boards in and around the events from the control room with Dyatlov, Akimov and Toptunov was a perfect way to explain it to a layman. I would've been highly disappointed if that part of the story was glossed over as being too technical 'big-bangy'.
Absolutely first class.
If those two points are the only things you picked up on in that piece then you had best stick to The Sun and The Daily Mail for your impartial world news.
What are your views on RT coverage of Salisbury tourism? 🙂
https://www.rt.com/news/438350-petrov-boshirov-interview-simonyan/
Seems legit.
🙂
Martinhutch - I agree it was bad; although no worse than the best selling newspaper at that time reporting on the Hillsborough disaster.
That was one of the best things I’ve watched in years..
The Real Chernobyl is on Sky Atlantic now. Don’t think it was in the schedules. Fascinating stuff.
Enjoyed the show but not the implication that Russia was alone in these errors.
Windscale aka Sellafield had an engineer looking down into a reactor fire. The level of disinformation that came out about Fukushima in the days and weeks following the accident was unbelievable.
What implication, when was that made?
It's nitpicking. The show picks out the extra safety features in Western reactor design, but by this point the sl1, windscale and three mile island accidents had occurred despite them.
I think a more realistic conversation would have highlighted these accidents still occur in spite of more resilient design. A more balanced dramatisation would have picked that up in my view
Wow. Just caught up on the five episodes. 43 years old so remember this being taught as pretty fresh.
How good was that red and blue cards scene in the courtroom? Explained everything beautifully. I do a bit of BI at work but have never seen anything come close to successfully relaying a message. Admittedly what I do does not impact the life and health of millions.
sl1, windscale and three mile island accidents had occurred despite them.
Perhaps the point was, despite those accidents happening (many) years before the Chernobyl incident, the Soviet state continued to go ahead and build and operate the RBMK.
I can recommend the Chernobyl podcast where the writer gives an explanation of each episode, such as what details they included, what was real, what they invented (such as the scientist who actually represented a group of scientists to simplify the narrative)
It also gives an insight into the Soviet mindset at the time, and although you can argue it's a disaster born of the Soviet system, the people involved in the clean up come across as well intentioned and even heroic in some cases, especially those who knowingly put their welfare on the line.
I’m sure Russia Today weather forecast does make people take umbrellas to work...tipped with some polonium.
This made me chuckle
Just finished catching up with this last night and I can only echo what has already been said, absolutely brilliant telly. The fact you know and remember it all happening makes it all the more chilling!
I don't know what they've done with the Fukushima site, but the Chernobyl site has a gigantic protective structure over the most contaminated spot (i.e. the reactor core). If you compared the highest reading anywhere at Chernobyl to the highest reading in the Marshall Islands, it would be orders of magnitude higher.