[Closed] Cheese eating surrender monkeys

NB who’d have guessed the flatlands of Lincolnshire would produce a Swiss mountain cheese (poacher)?

Ah, I always thought it was like Cheddar but I now see it's "somewhere between a cheddar and a Swiss mountain cheese". I shall have to give it another go, I love mountain cheeses in general.

What exactly is wrong with eating cheese?

I don't think that's the bit people are suggesting might be a bit insulting.

And calling French people froggies is also simply a cultural attack, in the same that the French call the English “les rosbifs”.

Many many years ago I was in a group of Brits skiing with a French guide. He had stopped for us all to gather back together. Having done so there was a pause. Cue one of the party muttering "Is the frog ready yet"? Another small pause followed by "OK rosbif, the frog is ready now". Anyhow, turned out he was Swiss.

Similarly I haven’t heard a German refer to the Brits as Inselaffe in more than a decade.

I would think it's due a comeback (Disclosure - English Dad German Mutti).

Do we only sing when winning?

I think that is normally the case, hence the chant "It's all gone quiet over there".

They certainly didn’t surrender in 1066. Do we only sing when winning?

Technically, they weren't French, Normans = Norsemen.

William was born in Falaise France to French parents. His grand parents were also French. On his mothers side the great grand father was a Scottish king. French with distant Scottish blood then. 🙂

Does this joke offend too?

Well it might pack a bit more punch if it was based on some sort of vague fact**

As mentioned on the first page "France has one of the best military records by country".

In context of WW2 France had the largest volunteer military outside India - 1.3 million by the time of the French provisional government.

As it stands the funniest thing about the joke is that it betrays the naivety of some people.

** As in the immortal Family Guy words "Ha ha it's funny because it's true".

I think the Normans considered themselves French by that point, they had become Frenchified, similar to how they eventually became Anglicised a few hundred years later.

Does this joke offend too?

Want to buy a French Army rifle, Never fired but dropped twice?

I'm not French but it makes me cringe, given what they went through in WW2. Read some stories about the French Resistance then see if you still feel like making shit throwaway jokes.

Technically, they weren’t French, Normans = Norsemen.

William's invasion force included Flemish, Bretons, and Franks, as well as Normans.

I don't know what percentage of William's forces were actually Norman but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a minority.

I suppose Vietnam & Afghanistan were 'conscious uncouplings' rather than surrenders.

they had become Frenchified, similar to how they eventually became Anglicised a few hundred years later.

They became assimilated into French society far quicker than they did into English society.

For example I think that within one generation the Normans had abandoned their old Norse language and adopted French.

That joke doesnt offend me either. Ww2 was a long time ago and even though it should not be forgotten, times have changed. Maybe brits are too focussed on the past. Which Does explain Brexit and tory majority.

Read some stories

Reading some facts might be better. 😉 Read up on Vichy France, collabos and millice while you're at it. There were the early resistants made up of patriots and people who found themselves in untenable illegal positions - les résistants de la première heure, their ranks were increased by the generation who chose the maquis over the STO. There were also les résistants de la dernière heure, collaborators who wore an FFI armband in the hope of avoiding arrestation at the end of the war when their side lost. And everything between the two.

Madame did a Masters on les passeurs des Pyrénées Atlantiques and a doctorate on the Maquis de Bourgogne.

People found themselves in complicated situations. It's something I would never joke about with people in these parts, I don't know their family history and generations on it's time to move on. The resistants I've known are all dead now, Madame still has all the tape recordings from the interviews for her research.

"Time to move on" is my suggestion.

People found themselves in complicated situations.

Which is inevitable in war.

I don’t know their family history and generations on it’s time to move on.

Unfortunately moving on can be synonymous with forgetting about, which isn't necessarily the best thing to do. Especially when the far right are flexing their muscles. I learned about WWII from my parents, one an English PoW in Austria, the other a telephonist with the German army on the Eastern front. When we can no longer hear those first hand experiences we are in danger of becoming desensitised.

Checking the dictionary the words aren't synonyms.

You can move on without forgetting. When current leaders share the stage at memorials it's moving on without forgetting. However, when Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage bring up "Blitz spirit", "Dunkirk spirit" it's not to say "never again", it's to keep a fire of hatred alight.

Kids have history lessons and there are still a succession of sometimes riduculous films made to keep WWII fresh in their minds. When I've taken kids to Germany they know the history and don't want it repeated. They now belong to a generation that has lived with the Euro all their lives, never needed to show a passport or stop at a frontier post. WWII ended 76 years ago, it's as far away for school kids now as the Second Boer War for my generation (the war the fictional Lance Corporal Jones fought in).

If there's one thing that people shouldn't forget about WWII, it's Hiroshima, because that was a taster of things to come.

The petty WWII based xenophobia needs dropping.

Oi you! Beer drinker! Pasta eater! T-Shirt wearer!

That’s me that is, right outside, now! I’ll hold your pint…

Okay so in a topic about xenophobia and cheese the one born Frenchman who might have a qualified opinion is being called out as not French enough and anti-French by an immigrant.

Ernie, you need to step your game up and fling some random, easily translatable and completely unnecessary French phrases in if you want to convince us you're not one of those self-hating French, Français qui se détestent if you will.

I love this place, never fails to disappoint...

Oi you! Beer drinker! Pasta eater! T-Shirt wearer!

That’s me that is, right outside, now! I’ll hold your pint…

Unfortunately moving on can be synonymous with forgetting about, which isn’t necessarily the best thing to do. Especially when the far right are flexing their muscles. I learned about WWII from my parents, one an English PoW in Austria, the other a telephonist with the German army on the Eastern front. When we can no longer hear those first hand experiences we are in danger of becoming desensitised.

It never pays to forget - “those who forget the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them”, or words to that effect.
My dad was a Japanese PoW, in Changi, a place with a terrible reputation. He never talked about his time there, although he did have some books about it, which I read later; he died when I was 13, but he had a pair of Japanese made binoculars, and he never said anything bad about the people, as a result I’ve met some really lovely Japanese people through a friend of mine who I became very friendly with. I don’t confuse the actions of a government with the ordinary citizens.
I posted a photo of a gravestone on another thread, one of those whose name is on it was a relative, a young man who was killed in action at Arras on 9 April 1917. He was 20. He was just one among twenty million killed!
Regardless of one’s attitude to war, those lost were all part of someone’s family, and their loss, and the grief of those left behind should never be forgotten.

Checking the dictionary the words aren’t synonyms.

You can move on without forgetting.

I said "can be".

... possibly not a contender for #TOTW 🙁

the one born Frenchman

There are two.

I was was born in the Queen Elizabeth hospital Birmingham, last living there through the Winter of Discontent.

If it's so easy translate "maquis" and "résistant" retaining the clear distinction between the two.

I Googled "Edukator Birmingham Singletrackworld" to see how kind/unkind I might be about the place, I posted this on the first Google result

I spent the first nine years of my life in Rubery at a time when many of the people worked in Longbridge. I reckon having an “English accent” is less of a handicap in any mainland European country than having a Brummy/Black Country accent in England outside the Midlands conurbation.

So what's the point you are laboriously trying to make?

When we can no longer hear those first hand experiences we are in danger of becoming desensitised.

+1

And far easier to 'rewrite' history.

I'd be surprised if the Norsemen of Normandy became 'French' in a century, despite linguistic adaptations. All armies of the time and before were a melange, the 'Romans' included Africans etc and the 'Northern Danelaw' lasted for more than a century over here.

I was going to post something similar but couldn't without sounding more of a cock...

For me 'moving on' is synonymous with forgetting and a bit trite considering events... My Dad fought at Arnhem and other family members were in RAF bombers.

As a kid in the 70's, the memory of WW2 was still fairly recent so this resonates more with me than say with a snowflake who only has to worry about when his phone data runs out...

‘moving on’ is synonymous with forgetting

It absolutely should not be. The Germans seem to be doing this so much better than us. There is no "forgetting" there, but there is an awful lot of "moving on". Our seemingly constant desire to frame whole nations around our idea of what previous generations did or didn't do during the great wars of the last century infantilises our population, many of whom seem very keen to "forget" the lessons of those wars, yet refuse to "move on" from the national stereotyping that arose here out of them.

I’d be surprised if the Norsemen of Normandy became ‘French’ in a century, despite linguistic adaptations.

That "France" didnt really exist at that time would be a slight hinderance to the cause.

Brie de Meaux in Lidls. Mmm - could easily eat a kg of that a week.

I used to work in a camera shop approx 2004. The chap that used to come in and collect the films said "The French have got a big streak of yellow going right through the middle of them" I was shocked and then double shocked when the old lady in the shop said "Yes its true"

I’d be surprised if the Norsemen of Normandy became ‘French’ in a century, despite linguistic adaptations.

I think the problem is that it is assumed that the Norsemen conquered and settled in what is now Normandy from a position of strength in the way they did in England.

Rollo the Norsemen leader who was granted lands in Normandy by the Frankish ruler had suffered significant military defeat at the hands of the Franks.

Part of the deal which allowed Rollo to settle in Normandy was that he convert to Christianity, itself a huge cultural change, and also that he would repel further Viking raids on the French coastal areas.

Also the total size of Rollo's forces would not have been that huge in relation to the local Frankish population. They would not have brought many women with them so probably in most cases married local women. Their children would, apart from not following the old Norse religion, undoubtedly spoken French and embraced French culture.

By 1066 I imagine that very few people in Normandy could claim to be or feel Scandinavian.

Similarly I haven’t heard a German refer to the Brits as Inselaffe in more than a decade.

A few years back when i was thinking of opening a climbing wall in Germany, "AffenInsel" was my chosen name for it.

Is cheese any cheaper in France?

Do we only sing when winning?

The unspoken art of National Supremacy demands that we never lose even when we don’t win.

See also the spirited British retreat at Dunkirk.

Anyway. Nazi Germany lost and Britain, France, Germany, Poland et al survived to become our friends in the EU.

I just wish Britain England could’ve remembered learned rule No.1.

Nothing is cheaper in France nowadays. 🙄

See also the spirited British retreat at Dunkirk.

Yes it's always been an endless source of fascination for me how "sod this for a game of soldiers, let's leg it" should have become a proud moment on British history.

That's what I call spin.

Also "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

Less than 4 weeks later Britian surrendered the Channel Islands without a single shot being fired.

See also the spirited British retreat at Dunkirk.

Yes it's always been an endless source of fascination for me how "sod this for a game of soldiers, let's leg it" should have become a proud moment in British history.

That's what I call spin.

Also "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

Less than 4 weeks later Britian surrendered the Channel Islands without a single shot being fired.

Also “We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender”

Less than 4 weeks later Britian surrendered the Channel Islands without a single shot being fired.

Ok but it's pretty obvious how both those things came about, and for good reasons. There is always a huge amount of spin required for wars, and that's something Churchill was really good at. That speech wasn't a manifesto commitment, it was meant to get everyone fired up and committed to do their bit. And it worked.

I just wish Britain England the rest of the UK outside London, Scotland and the major cities could’ve remembered learned rule No.1.

FTFY.

Is the cheese being eaten, 'cave aged'?

That speech wasn’t a manifesto commitment, it was meant to get everyone fired up and committed to do their bit.

It was made at a time Churchill was trying to persuade the cabinet of this position, with some members wanting to negotiate with Germany. The speech was made in parliament with sections reported in the press. The sound recording most of us will have heard was only recorded by the old ham in 1949 (probably with an election in mind).

I just wish Britain England the rest of the UK outside London, Scotland and the major cities some people could’ve remembered learned rule No.1.

There you go. Attempt no. 2

FTFY.

That speech wasn’t a manifesto commitment, it was meant to get everyone fired up and committed to do their bit.

Well of course, that's the point. The rhetoric and reality isn't necessarily the same.

Which gets us back to cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Yes it’s always been an endless source of fascination for me how “sod this for a game of soldiers, let’s leg it” should have become a proud moment on British history.

I was taught it was about how civilians crossed the channel in boats to help rescue the soldiers, opposed the military action.

Me too Drac. It was also about bringing in 140 000 (first Google result) French and Belgian refugee immigrants. Priti and Farage would not have been happy. 🙂

I was taught it was about how civilians crossed the channel in boats to help rescue the soldiers, opposed the military action.

I was taught it was about how civilians crossed the channel in boats to help rescue the soldiers, opposed the military action.

D'you know, I was reading about that recently - almost all of the little boats were crewed by Royal Navy or coast guard staff who largely took them without the owner's consent or even knowledge.

almost all of the little boats were crewed by Royal Navy

It wasn't much greater than zero, now, was it. 😉

To be fair, apart from acknowledging that the popular story is not quite what happened, I don't think it really matters much at this remove.

The rhetoric and reality isn’t necessarily the same.

Which gets us back to cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Indeed, and I can't quite figure out why there is still a requirement to mock the French since ooh, 500 years ago.